Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[CMD-Ky]

I'm not aware of any laws currently on the books under which an individual could be prosecuted for having "too much" nic, and the FDA's power to regulate is limited to things products that are offered in commerce. E.g.: Their regulations prohibit the sale of raw milk to consumers but if you have a cow, you can drink all the raw milk you want.

Can your children drink that raw milk? Time for state involvement, or so it sounds to me being a protector of all things children.

 

[Rossum]

I'd also just add that stocking up strikes me as prudent, but also risky. Yet, I'm banking on black market operators stocking up.

But regularly engaging in illegal commerce, even if just as a buyer, will be less risky?

I'm sorry, but I disagree with that assessment.

Then there's also the question of price. You don't really think those informal markets will sell you a liter of 100 mg base for the $50-$100 that we can buy it for today, do you?

 

[CMD-Ky]

I see civil and criminal asset forfeiture on the horizon. The sheriff one county over drives a bright yellow Corvette that he got for enforcing some arcane law.

Which is why I said for at least 6 months after enforcement happens (with businesses), it would be a non-issue. But I can see states taking up laws that seek to determine who are people that are clearly just users, and who are people that have amounts that appear to be what a distributor has.

Since it's all guessing at this point, I'm not gonna win in whatever argument I'm making. But to say black market buying eliquid comes with risks, while hoarding doesn't have risks, I think is being naive. I think the vaper in 2022 that has say 60 ML of eliquid in their possession is going to be able to be much more open with their vape than any hoarder of 1+ liter. I may one day be a hoarder, but I think I'll be nervous constantly when that happens. I hope I'm mistaken.

 

[Baditude]

THERE'S AN APP FOR THAT. How to prevent teens from vaping:.
"Concept video for my idea to prevent kids from vaping, catching stores or straw buyers that allow kids to vape, and with luck solve the one problem that our industry has created on the path to saving the half a million smokers who die every year. Share it if you think its cool. Dave Gravy Morris." An app could solve the Youth Vaping Crisis.

 

[Jman8]

But regularly engaging in illegal commerce, even if just as a buyer, will be less risky?

I'm sorry, but I disagree with that assessment.

Yes, it is currently less risky in all black markets I'm familiar with to be a buyer than it is to be a seller. And hoarders are going to look like sellers. To the degree they won't look like sellers will be how utterly discreet they are.

If hoarders share with anyone, the risk goes up. And by share, I mean freely give.

Then there's also the question of price. You don't really think those informal markets will sell you a liter of 100 mg base for the $50-$100 that we can buy it for today, do you?

I'm not talking about getting base. I'm talking about getting finished product eLiquid. I highly doubt it'll be at same prices I now pay through online vendor, but do think it'll be on par with what local brick and mortar sells for. Arguably less than that.

 

[rosesense]

I have little to no concern about my stash. Call me a hoarder or whatever but they aren't messing with my stuff. They have no reason to check my house and even if they did, I will defy them. Of course, I won't be making eliquid and selling it on the corner, either.

 

[Horselady154]

I think we're all guessing at this point. I'm not stocking up on nic at this time, but could see me doing it down the road. I think of risks in handling nic (probably minute, but not risk free) and in having that much around. Same goes with "other stuff" (that I know we can name now, but I'd rather not). I've never been one that thought having ounces of that around is a good thing, and instead strikes me as a thing that could lead to some serious jail time. I do think a good 6 months to as much as 3 years after everything goes down (enforcement is clearly happening), that own personal stash will be a non-issue. But also think at some point, they'll look to make examples of private hoarders just to make it clear that you now need to be super duper discrete with vaping if you wish to continue. And for those who have in their possession (at home) say 6 (30 ml) bottles of whatever, I think that could spell trouble, but nowhere near what 1 liter would mean if caught. In today's world, even with legalization happening, if someone is caught with a pound of other stuff, I think very very few people would say, "oh that's just for personal use." And most (ignorant folks) would think it a good thing the Feds got that dealer out of the way. And just to be clear, in this example, let's assume that it was all for personal use (truly was). I highly doubt such a person would be able to convince authorities of that.

So again, don't get caught. Be you a hoarder or distributor.

Have you heard about this?:
"Executive Order 6102 is a United States presidential executive order signed on April 5, 1933, by President Franklin D. Roosevelt "forbidding the hoarding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates within the continental United States"."

All the older gold coins on the market today? Guess where they came from? From people who chose not to turn theirs in.

 

[CMD-Ky]

And ultimately set us on a path to a currency backed by paper and debt, governmental wisdom. Gotta love it.

And for those who didn't turn the gold in, they also kept their mouths shut.

Have you heard about this?:
"Executive Order 6102 is a United States presidential executive order signed on April 5, 1933, by President Franklin D. Roosevelt "forbidding the hoarding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates within the continental United States"."

All the older gold coins on the market today? Guess where they came from? From people who chose not to turn theirs in.

 

[440BB]

I don't recall any local, state or federal authorities showing up at my house to remove anything I legally own. I don't think our personal vaping supplies are at all relevant to the deeming regulations and see this as stirring the pot, nothing else. There's enough in the real regulations to deal with.

 

[AttyPops]

I don't recall any local, state or federal authorities showing up at my house to remove anything I legally own. I don't think our personal vaping supplies are at all relevant to the deeming regulations and see this as stirring the pot, nothing else. There's enough in the real regulations to deal with.

Yeah, just don't make big batches of FLAVORED nic. Keep your base unflavored until you want to mix some up.

Otherwise, you might be considered "a distributor"....or whatever.

 

[CMD-Ky]

Yeah, just don't make big batches of FLAVORED nic. Keep your base unflavored until you want to mix some up.

Otherwise, you might be considered "a distributor"....or whatever.

Take me now, Lord, I agree, again.

 

[Jman8]

I don't recall any local, state or federal authorities showing up at my house to remove anything I legally own. I don't think our personal vaping supplies are at all relevant to the deeming regulations and see this as stirring the pot, nothing else. There's enough in the real regulations to deal with.

No more stirring the pot than claiming black market eLiquid will be too risky to purchase.

The discussion at this point is partially about managing things going forward assuming 95% of vape products are removed from the open market.

In that situation, hoarders and sellers/distributors will be nearly impossible to distinguish. Otherwise, all sellers would just say they have it personal use and nothing more. So then black market will be peaches and cream going forward. Can't have it both ways you all.

 

[Rossum]

I don't recall any local, state or federal authorities showing up at my house to remove anything I legally own. I don't think our personal vaping supplies are at all relevant to the deeming regulations and see this as stirring the pot, nothing else. There's enough in the real regulations to deal with.

I'm waiting for some candidate for national office to say, "Hell yes, we're gonna take your nicotine!"

 

[Alexander Mundy]

I don't recall any local, state or federal authorities showing up at my house to remove anything I legally own.

Agree

I don't think our personal vaping supplies are at all relevant to the deeming regulations

Disagree, to the extent that it looks to me like what is in the latest guidance that whatever you have when the jig is up is all you will have unless you are into locked down closed systems made by gigantic corporations. I.E. big tobacco This makes discussion of personal vaping supplies pertinent IMO.

see this as stirring the pot, nothing else.

Quite possibly, but I'll reserve judgement of another's motives and instead engage with counter views.

There's enough in the real regulations to deal with.

Agree

 

[AttyPops]

I'm waiting for some candidate for national office to say, "Hell yes, we're gonna take your nicotine!"

That's a [really scary] good point.

Ironically, gun grabbing and nic grabbing would probably save a few lives, but mostly "won't work".

Mass shooters would use other means, and nic addicts will create a black market and/or GYO or both.

On the ?plus? side, if we did both of these things, you'd have your revolution. Nothing worse than ......-off gun owners having nic fits with blood in their eyes.

French. So amateur antiquated with those guillotines, eh?

 

[Rossum]

No more stirring the pot than claiming black market eLiquid will be too risky to purchase.

I don't think anyone said, "too risky". The assessment by many though, is that it will be more risky (and more expensive) than simply making it yourself from nic you have in your freezer.

 

[DavidOck]

But to say black market buying eLiquid comes with risks, while hoarding doesn't have risks, I think is being naive.

Hmm. "Hoarding", aka prepping, only has risks if one chooses to spread it around.

Street juice is subject to the same adulteration that seems to be affecting the THC street market, and may be fatal.

My diy? I know what I put in it.

IMO, not quite the same level of risk.

 

[Don29palms]

I don't think anyone said, "too risky". The assessment by many though, is that it will be more risky (and more expensive) than simply making it yourself from nic you have in your freezer.

Ok did I miss something? Is there something in the deeming regulations about making nicotine illegal? Is there something about making VG and PG illegal?

 

[Sloth Tonight]

Nothing worse than ......-off gun owners having nic fits with blood in their eyes.

 

[zoiDman]

Yeah, just don't make big batches of FLAVORED nic. Keep your base unflavored until you want to mix some up.

Otherwise, you might be considered "a distributor"....or whatever.

Why are we Limiting this to Just Nicotine or Mix e-Liquids. What about the Jack Booted Mod Police?

I mean, How Many Mods does one person really need? After that, are they going to Kick Down your Door and drag you into Court for being a Unlicensed Tobacco Accessory Distributor?

And what about Coils? And for that matter, Cotton?

How far down the the Hole of Tin Foiled wearing Rabbits should we go?