Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[zoiDman]

I'm not gonna milk a deer.

You say that Now.

But when the NEAPS (Nicotine Enforcement and Protection Squads) are rounding up people using Wire Ties and Random Beatings, with their High n' Tight Haircuts and Ear Pieces, we'll see what you think about it then.

 

[mikepetro]

I'm not gonna milk a deer.

 

[zoiDman]

I wonder if a Deer can be Genetically Modified to product nicotine salts?

AKA: juul Milk

 

[Bronze]

You say that Now.

But when the NEAPS (Nicotine Enforcement and Protection Squads) are rounding up people using Wire Ties and Random Beatings, with their High n' Tight Haircuts and Ear Pieces, we'll see what you think about it then.

 

[Bronze]

Some nice 100mg there.

 

[Bronze]

I wonder if a Deer can be Genetically Modified to product Nicotine Salts?

AKA: juul Milk

Probably but I hear their farts stink.

 

[Bronze]

As ENAUD would say...

 

[Don29palms]

No, nothing has changed. We have one or two people here who are worried that at some point in the future, having a stockpile of nic base might become illegal, but this is purely hypothetical speculation.

Ok. Thank you. I thought I missed something important. I'm not worried about the sky falling.

 

[englishmick]

But also think at some point, they'll look to make examples of private hoarders just to make it clear that you now need to be super duper discrete with vaping if you wish to continue.

Don't think I've seen any regs or proposals making the act of vaping illegal. Think I saw some regs making possession criminal for people under the age limit. Wouldn't it take a new law to make vaping or possession criminal? Especially for products that were bought legally before the ban.

I think what you said would make me very nervous about providing juice to anyone else while I had liters in the freezer. The literal wording of the old Indiana law meant that even giving juice free to a friend would be a crime, it would be classified as a sample.

I can probably trust my wife, but maybe I need to set up a dead drop location in the yard and put her juice under a tree root for her to pick up later.

 

[Jman8]

I'll worry about the risks of keeping a nic stash if/when a law is passed in a jurisdiction in which I have such a stash that actually criminalizes possession of some specific amount.

Obviously, same thing can be said about eLiquid on the forthcoming market. Literally no need to worry about getting stuff on that market at this time.

 

[stols001]

I would just like to state that the very first alcoholic beverage I ever tasted was a brandy and ginger ale concoction that my parents had me mix them every night in France during their alcohol(ish) period. I was a very eager mixer because it tasted delicious. Also, since my dad WAS an alcoholic in truth (so I found out later) I don't know how he EVER tolerated the "one drink buzz." Maybe he was just that scared of my mom, who is more of a pill popper honestly.

But anyway I have been meaning to make some and it is coming along quite nicely so far. I got that FIZZ "additive" and well, it could be a touch sweeter, maybe not. IDK.

I would like this post to register as proof that a) I had flavors before D-day and b) even as an ALCOHOLIC, this flavor is not HARMING me at all in fact it is making me HAPPY.

I would just like to know HOW MUCH MORE HARM reduction the FDA would like me to offer up,. I MEAN???? My head on a PLATTER.

It IS old testament times I guess. Jesus was really into wine and food I BET you anything he is up there shaking his head at the politicians going, "DAD!!!!!!! Can't I DO ANYTHING?"

And the other single yet three part of God is like, "Kid I have told you over and over it's not time yet."

Oh wow. I just realized the triplicate God could actually be eerily similar to like, Freud's version of the psyche. I never put that together until now. It's kind of fun to think about. I don't really care for Freud's body of work, but you know, coke is bad y'all.

I was on track, I have veered.

But yea, Jesus is up there, shaking his head saying "Politicians are a bunch of Satanists."

I think we need a VERY CHINESE president who was born here but like lived in China for the next election. It would be interesting at least. Like, a businessman not a communist though .To clarify.

Anna

 

[Jman8]

If you think I will enter the black market of nic, you are insane. And I will mix for ONE person. ME.

But yeah okay all the cute little innocents about the black market. YOU have NO clue how ugly this will get before it improves.

Tell me I don't have a clue about it directly please. Cause from what I inferred from you wrote, you seem clueless to my experience. Understandable, but not sure your need to be aggressive in points you're making.

If you have one thing in your life to live for and you want to keep vaping, learn DIY AND stock up.

It is exactly and ONLY that simple. Black markets are horrible. People die. Societies disintegrate.

People die with open markets. There are currently multiple black markets in the U.S. and have been for a long time, and will be for the foreseeable future.

The nic one will be rather tame compared to most of those.

Once vaping becomes illegal it will act like every other black market that came before it. Mark my words.

What you're saying, I would say depends on where you live, and as you said perspective of whether one is buyer or seller. And what level one wishes to sell at. I'm sure there will be ugly, horrible situations in that market. There will also be cordial, semi-sophisticated, ease of transaction situations as well.

If it truly gets ugly ugly across the board (and I'm willing to wager it never ever will, but let's say it does), then you couldn't pay me to hoard nic base, even if for personal use.

 

[Katya]

E.g.: Their regulations prohibit the sale of raw milk to consumers but if you have a cow, you can drink all the raw milk you want.

On a happier note, Rossum...

This was then: Raw Milk Raid on Amish Farmer Highlights Stupid FDA Tactics



Now you can buy raw milk, kefir, butter, and cheese anywhere in CA, not only in health food stores. Trader Joe sells very nice raw milk cage aged Gruyere imported from Switzerland.

The question is how long we're going to have to wait and what to do in the meantime.

 

[Jman8]

Don't think I've seen any regs or proposals making the act of vaping illegal. Think I saw some regs making possession criminal for people under the age limit. Wouldn't it take a new law to make vaping or possession criminal? Especially for products that were bought legally before the ban.

We aren't, or rather I'm not, talking about today's vaping regulations and/or current lawmakers tolerance for all things vaping. That for sure relates to the discussion I'm engaged in, but there is literally no reason at the moment to be concerned with possession of really anything vape related, as it pertains to nic vaping. Likewise, there's currently no reason in this moment to be concerned with getting eLiquid or quality of eLiquid one obtains.

I think what you said would make me very nervous about providing juice to anyone else while I had liters in the freezer. The literal wording of the old Indiana law meant that even giving juice free to a friend would be a crime, it would be classified as a sample.

Again, I am, and we are speculating about what could come about if eLiquid and vape gear are essentially removed from the legal market. I find it not plausible for either side to win the argument/disagreement, because we don't know how bad it'll get. For it to get bad, laws would have to be in place, that are not in place now, which amount to criminal statutes for possession, distributing of products not deemed legal on open market.

Contrary to what's been stated on this thread, I'm not worried about a forthcoming underground market. I would be worried if public perception is that nic dealers/possessors ought to be treated like serious drug offenders, but so far, we are nowhere near that (I hope). I'd be substantially more concerned if I were in possession of what is possibly deemed to be amount that makes one a dealer, even if said person has no intent on distributing. Anyway, I'd like to make abundantly clear that this is not the case now, and probably will not be for at least another 1.5 years. I hope it never comes about.

But another part of this thread is spinning the idea of buying eLiquid on the underground market as "holy crap, you're going to be in deep doo doo and have guns pointed at you while you're in that back alley where all such transactions must occur." Which strikes me as, yeah, you're just making up BS if you think it'll be that bad. Not your making up BS about your past experiences with black markets, but to say such things about obtaining eLiquid say 4 years from now, I find over the top. And to the degree it isn't, then possessing nic base would be highly risky. Again, you can't have it both ways. Can't say possession of own stash for personal use will be wonderful, with hardly any risks, but buying a 15 ML bottle of bubble gum eLiquid in that same world will be potentially fatal during and after the transaction. And scare you just enough to never consider doing that again.

I truly think it'll be tame for at least the next 5 years to buy on that market, and probably even to sell in that market. I also think it'll be tame to possess dealer amounts of base during that time frame. Overall, it could get worse, before it gets better. Public perception may move to place where all liquid Nic has to be removed, and then that black market would be plausibly scary to buy in. Though not really, since its just frickin' nicotine that we're talking about.

We clearly are now in a war that is escalating. Will be wonderful if we realize we're in this together.

 

[stols001]

I am saying grey markets deteriorate into black, then blacker markets. Yes, people die in the open market will die, but not quite as many of them.

If you have a sophisticated and with connections mixer you have in mind, that's great-- for you. Until something happens to that supplier, and then the next supplier, and then the next.

You must know black markets are the targets of law enforcement, right? I mean, on most levels unless paying off their politicians which certainly does happen, well, it may start out Just Fine. For you. Maybe even continue that way for a long time.

Also, if you want to pay a markup for "sophisticated" black market stuff that is premium, by all means, do get INTO bed with the politicians who WANT you dead, except they're being paid off.

That is what I mean. It's great to get great drugs and I have had my share of them. Ultimately, I became a parent, sane, and decided I wanted to work for the good of society, not contribute to the ill of it.

I have worked with the very ill and very poor, and in places you have probably never looked at on a map. I have worked for tribal reservations. I know the misfortune that comes, for all.

I know how to buy a CHILD. A CHILD. Do you think that's fantastic knowledge to have? Which is why I don't share it openly because I don't want to participate in that behavior. I would like it stopped.

While you are sipping at your fine, high shelf politician bought HIGH END ILLEGAL JUICE, you may want to consider that you will be at the top of the PONZI scheme. For now.

A lot of folks won't be. I find that disturbing. I find it ALSO disturbing that you would rather illegally pay for high end juice to contribute to a problem the government is working on for a LONG time. How to get more money out of vaping.

I have met my share of high end politicians and wealthy drug dealers too, and they are not very different. They both live in gated communities. They are both charming and pleasant to talk to. Their children go to the BEST schools, while at the "rock bottom" of their system, children are poisoned to bring their 'high end" supply into the country, and the kiddo dealers have a fairly good shot at getting killed too.

I lived most of my mid teens to late 20s inside the beltway. I know how it works, I almost married one of them. I'm so glad I didn't.

So okay, go ahead and feel superior if you must. I'm quite sure I could find a way to overpay for "premium" juice if I so desired. I do not. I mix for myself because I am good at it.

I value self-sufficiency. That is why I will keep nicotine on hand. Perhaps the feds will come, perhaps they won't. But, if I wind up in jail, at least I will have the satisfaction of knowing that I have not paid them off to do so.

Let me be clear. I consider the "high end" of the black market to be the most evil one of all. So if it happens, remember, you will bear a mark. And yes, we all will. I think you just have to decide what mark you are willing to bear, and what actions you are willing to take. Profiting off the bottom of the PONZI scheme is the LAST thing I would ever want to do.

If I get jailed for THAT, so be it.

I'm sorry. I'm throwing up a little in my mouth right now. I guess it comes from working at Hopkins' methadone and suboxone program and seeing the results of that pure white china as it trickled down the food chain.

You have not been part of the market yet I guess. I have (on both sides, then OUT.)

I will not contribute to another's misfortune when I can be self sufficient now.

I'm out. But, choose your mark wisely. Choose the stain. It will live on, and there are things you can atone for and things you can't. I've done both, NO wish to do it again.

Also, nicotine will not be a "special" black market. It won't be. Not by the end, anyway.

Anna

 

[Jman8]

I am saying grey markets deteriorate into black, then blacker markets. Yes, people die in the open market will die, but not quite as many of them.

Actually, I would say technically far more on the open market. But truly, I understand the point you are TRYING to make.

If you have a sophisticated and with connections mixer you have in mind, that's great-- for you. Until something happens to that supplier, and then the next supplier, and then the next.

Still all great, lol. You're saying, I think, it'll get worse each time I (or other buyers) can't hook up. It could arguably get better, as the next dealer could have better ethics, better product, better selection.

It's also not like this drug is mind altering, behavior altering, at least to the degree of, "man I need it bad. I'll rob my own family if it means you can hook me up. Please, c'mon." LOL. If you think nic underground market will get that bad, that humors me.

You can also play same speculative game with storing nic as in, not bad when it's all working good. But you'll get desperate when the fridge is not working, and then the next one doesn't work, and then your electricity goes out, and then the generator isn't working, and then the whole house catches on fire. When that happens, I'll be there say I told you so. LOL, like it'd get that bad.

You must know black markets are the targets of law enforcement, right? I mean, on most levels unless paying off their politicians which certainly does happen, well, it may start out Just Fine. For you. Maybe even continue that way for a long time.

It has, for like 30+ years. And for most people I know. Again though we're talking about nicotine.

Also, if you want to pay a markup for "sophisticated" black market stuff that is premium, by all means, do get INTO bed with the politicians who WANT you dead, except they're being paid off.

That is what I mean. It's great to get great drugs and I have had my share of them. Ultimately, I became a parent, sane, and decided I wanted to work for the good of society, not contribute to the ill of it.

Storing dealer amounts of nicotine will be seen, by you as that's totally cool and contributing to the good of society? But buying 15 ml of banana nut bread eLiquid from the (scary, zany) black market will be seen as contributing to the ill of it?

While you are sipping at your fine, high shelf politician bought HIGH END ILLEGAL JUICE, you may want to consider that you will be at the top of the PONZI scheme. For now.

Now, I think you're just trying to make me laugh.

A lot of folks won't be. I find that disturbing. I find it ALSO disturbing that you would rather illegally pay for high end juice to contribute to a problem the government is working on for a LONG time. How to get more money out of vaping.

How disturbing, pray tell? Your spin, humors me for how you think I'll be in said market, but still, I'm most interested in how truly disturbing this will be for you.

So okay, go ahead and feel superior if you must. I'm quite sure I could find a way to overpay for "premium" juice if I so desired. I do not. I mix for myself because I am good at it.

All funny, to me. According to you, I'm going to be overpaying for "premium" juice, and I think you're basing this entirely on my using the words "semi-sophisticated" with regards to the transactions in the black market. But anyway, I'll be getting the "premium" stuff, while you are one who will be mixing it, since you're so good at it. I mean, that just reads hilarious.

I value self-sufficiency. That is why I will keep nicotine on hand. Perhaps the feds will come, perhaps they won't. But, if I wind up in jail, at least I will have the satisfaction of knowing that I have not paid them off to do so.

Let me be clear. I consider the "high end" of the black market to be the most evil one of all. So if it happens, remember, you will bear a mark. And yes, we all will. I think you just have to decide what mark you are willing to bear, and what actions you are willing to take. Profiting off the bottom of the PONZI scheme is the LAST thing I would ever want to do.

Again, all funny to me. It's obvious you ceased wanting to have a reasonable discussion. But thank you for letting me know that I will bear the mark of the most evil people in the black market. That is truly good to know. Funny as heck, but cynically, good to know.

But, choose your mark wisely. Choose the stain. It will live on, and there are things you can atone for and things you can't. I've done both, NO wish to do it again.

Also, nicotine will not be a "special" black market. It won't be. Not by the end, anyway.

Btw, it will. All black markets are essentially unique. There's a different type of seller selling say nuclear materials than are selling honey rose petal vape. Obviously for you, the honey rose petal vape dealer, who's engaged in the premium side of the ponzi scheme is infinitely worse, and is an evil stain on society and the history of humanity.

And I find that hilarious.

 

[Baditude]

I haven't seen any comments to my last post in this thread. I can't post the video here directly because I'm on my smart phone and I'm stupid. A guy has created an app that could solve the youth vaping crisis. I think this extremely important.

Edit:

 

[mikepetro]

I haven't seen any comments to my last post in this thread. I can't post the video here directly because I'm on my smart phone and I'm stupid. A guy has created an app that could solve the youth vaping crisis. I think this extremely important.

Cool idea, but it isnt teen-proof.

I buy the RFID tag bottle, I use it all up, my kid (or some other) digs it out of the trash and refills it. Traceability is now broken.

 

[Sloth Tonight]

 

[Katya]

A guy has created an app that could solve the youth vaping crisis.

I'm not convinced, Bad. I just don't think anything can solve teen vaping (or drinking or smoking or drug use or any other) crisis. As a parent, I can only hope that I've taught them well and that they will, eventually, make the right decisions.

Just my