I don't care.
Consider yourself an expert on reality then. Fine. But it's YOU that injected the term.
I'm just ask'n....what tis this "New Puritian" that thou dost speak of so ominously?
Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
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Consider yourself an expert on reality then. Fine. But it's YOU that injected the term.
I'm just ask'n....what tis this "New Puritian" that thou dost speak of so ominously?
If you don't understand then no words that I use will make it clear to you.
I don't care.
Consider yourself an expert on reality then. Fine. But it's YOU that injected the term.
I'm just ask'n....what tis this "New Puritian" that thou dost speak of so ominously?
Oh, so got nothing. I restate my assertion that it's psy-ops and hype.
The point about the personal possession of flavored juice law thing isn't "it's a good idea".
The point is that if "flavoring" is all of a sudden a national emergency, and so extreme that we can bypass lawmakers...what's next?
So the kiddies start flavoring it themselves and of course selling it.
Many here have already predicted the black market.
So as flavored vape street sales increase, possibly with the wrong flavorings that would be screened out by mainstream vendors...almost (but probably not same degree) as bad as the THC Vit-A crap...someone will react to that too.
So then there will be laws about quantity of possession.
Michigan already drafted it, but they removed it from the final version (thankfully).
But if this flavor ban floats, and if BT wants to force everyone into their pods...the rest follows. And it's about stopping a black market, teen vaping (ostensibly) and also about money.
I'm just say'n, I wouldn't make up gallons of e-juice to last a year or two...I'd mix in small batches. So as to not have any issues should I have to transport it or have another issue that causes a search or whatever. Because that "define dealer quantity" thing is pretty much writing on the wall at some point.
I am a 'we need to take responsibility for ourselves' type. Same as I think parents should be responsible for their teen kids who break the law by purchasing products they are prohibited from using. If the news or a news channel bugs someone, turn it off. If social media like twitter upsets someone, log out. Don't watch documentaries, TV shows, read books, etc., that you don't like if you don't want to do so. THERE IS NO LAW REQUIRING anyone to watch or read anything they don't agree with.
But that written, it is true that all those media options (and they are optional) do have the power to sway and encourage social groups, and they do have the power to sway politicians and bureaucrats. Social group momentum sometimes does succeed in transforming the rules of society (e.g., by who they vote for, by use of social pressure, etc.), but it's the politicians and bureaucrats that can change the rules almost overnight, sometimes on a whim, by creating laws that I am forced to follow or risk the consequences. I find the politicians/bureaucrats to be the most dangerous, not the social groups, and definitely not 'the media'. I am in favor of any government structure that slows down politicians and bureaucrats, so that they cannot just enact new or poorly thought out laws on a whim. Voters, you are partially responsible for who you voted for and the laws enacted by the person you chose, but each vote is still just one vote, and you may be swayed by social group think too. It just happens to be the group you side with.
I think we are all just being humans, motivated by our own self-interests. My interest in this is I want the option to vape. That's it. It is not some higher moral ground, it's just what is in my interest. Others have in mind what is in their interest, including politicians, social groups, and other individuals.
My only claim is that my want to vape is not causing others any harm. Sure I do understand the argument that if vaping does result in a national health crisis, that other tax payers must pay for, then that would effect others, but as far as I know vaping legit e-juice has so far been shown to be very safe, and is actually reducing the burden on tax payers by reducing the number of smokers.
On that grounds/belief, yea, I get hacked off at those who oppose vaping for ideological reasons, for political gain, because mommy and daddy don't want to be responsible for their teens breaking the law. Okay they are entitled to have their reasons, but doesn't mean I have to like them if they negatively impact me. In this current circus to rush out new vaping laws, those laws are (or soon will) negatively affect me. If I am going to lay blame, I hold responsible those who used their position of power to enact laws for their own interests. And really, if they want to blame the 'media', or if they heavily swayed by the media, yep all they are saying to me is they don't have the ability to take personal responsibility.
Final point, I don't think this is a R vs D issue or trend we are seeing here. I think this is that some politicians are very easily swayed by the media, and they act out of self-interest, the interest of more votes. Whether R or D, that's why I'll always vote for whoever has the personality to take personal responsibility, and to be very well informed before acting to make or break laws that affect the rest of us.
But that written, it is true that all those media options (and they are optional) do have the power to sway and encourage social groups, and they do have the power to sway politicians and bureaucrats. Social group momentum sometimes does succeed in transforming the rules of society (e.g., by who they vote for, by use of social pressure, etc.), but it's the politicians and bureaucrats that can change the rules almost overnight, sometimes on a whim, by creating laws that I am forced to follow or risk the consequences. I find the politicians/bureaucrats to be the most dangerous, not the social groups, and definitely not 'the media'. I am in favor of any government structure that slows down politicians and bureaucrats, so that they cannot just enact new or poorly thought out laws on a whim. Voters, you are partially responsible for who you voted for and the laws enacted by the person you chose, but each vote is still just one vote, and you may be swayed by social group think too. It just happens to be the group you side with.
I think we are all just being humans, motivated by our own self-interests. My interest in this is I want the option to vape. That's it. It is not some higher moral ground, it's just what is in my interest. Others have in mind what is in their interest, including politicians, social groups, and other individuals.
My only claim is that my want to vape is not causing others any harm. Sure I do understand the argument that if vaping does result in a national health crisis, that other tax payers must pay for, then that would effect others, but as far as I know vaping legit e-juice has so far been shown to be very safe, and is actually reducing the burden on tax payers by reducing the number of smokers.
On that grounds/belief, yea, I get hacked off at those who oppose vaping for ideological reasons, for political gain, because mommy and daddy don't want to be responsible for their teens breaking the law. Okay they are entitled to have their reasons, but doesn't mean I have to like them if they negatively impact me. In this current circus to rush out new vaping laws, those laws are (or soon will) negatively affect me. If I am going to lay blame, I hold responsible those who used their position of power to enact laws for their own interests. And really, if they want to blame the 'media', or if they heavily swayed by the media, yep all they are saying to me is they don't have the ability to take personal responsibility.
Final point, I don't think this is a R vs D issue or trend we are seeing here. I think this is that some politicians are very easily swayed by the media, and they act out of self-interest, the interest of more votes. Whether R or D, that's why I'll always vote for whoever has the personality to take personal responsibility, and to be very well informed before acting to make or break laws that affect the rest of us.
It's money (from several directions), and concern, and both red and blue. :/
Without a proper democracy, we're screwed.
That's why I think it's more about corporate takeover of congress, or swamp, or whatever you want to call it. Oligarchy (corporate/wall street money) vs democracy (we the people).
I don't know what a new puritan is, but I know money grabbing when I see it. And social costs ARE real things too. To be fair to the medical side of all this. That's why giving up safER options is stupid. But I admit I kind of get the "it was too successful" angle.
Without a proper democracy, we're screwed.
That's why I think it's more about corporate takeover of congress, or swamp, or whatever you want to call it. Oligarchy (corporate/wall street money) vs democracy (we the people).
I don't know what a new puritan is, but I know money grabbing when I see it. And social costs ARE real things too. To be fair to the medical side of all this. That's why giving up safER options is stupid. But I admit I kind of get the "it was too successful" angle.
More money is definitely one self-interest motivator (why I don't trust people who are primarily motivated by money), power is another, lots of different reasons. Yea, red or blue, money can sway either
p.s. and yes, if this is about social costs, like increased cost to medicare, it is indeed stupid to prohibit vaping.
I agree. One thing I think we need is to teach coping mechanisms for adults and teens. Without a way to cope with stress, it leads to more and more addiction in adults and teens. Instead of laws and blame, perhaps teaching coping instead of drugs and booze might help. Every choice we make has consequences, good & bad. Choose wisely and know the consequences, the good & the bad
Sorry for the, but you brought up a good point. I think social media has divided us as a society. Not only because of differences in politics or religious beliefs, but on just about any topic you can think of.
Yeah, social media. I can sit on the deck with friends and talk about politics or religion or anything else. We might disagree and state our opinions strongly, but we aren't going to call each other ignorant scumbags, even after a few beers. I cut off all social media about 15 years ago because of that. Only exception for me is ECF. I want to talk about vaping so I come here despite the endless gratuitous snipes at ACA and other political squabbling. It's hard to bite your tongue and stay out of it. Ignore helps.
People my age grew up without social media. Later generations couldn't live without it. Does it coarsen their minds? Maybe. Unlike many I have a lot of respect for the way the current younger generations think.
Things were different in the old days. My parents would never have let me get away with smoking. Yeah.
Before I retired last year I worked in a hotel for a while. Several of the youthful folks who worked in the kitchen were vapers. Several of them made their own juice, they all swapped and shared it.
Bit harder for teens since they don't have their own apartments. They don't live in a vacuum though, some of them are going to know older kids. Its not going to be too hard for the black market to grow.
Many households both mom and dad work so when they come home at night the last thing they want to do with the few precious hours at home is fight with little Johnny and Suzy. When I was coming up, most moms stayed at home and raised the kids. So they were there all day every day and they had no reservations about getting in their kid's grilles when it was required. Of course there are plenty of exceptions to rules and I speak in general terms only.
A "proper democracy" is called a republic. A republic is what our Founders gave us; they despised democracies, aka mob rule.
The inability to distinguish between an economic necessity and an economic desire is hastening the end of the family unit as the societal base. Necessity is not the mother of invention; invention is the mother of necessity.
Things were different in the old days, I was punished for my mis-deeds and rarely committed them twice. On occasion, I did commit them twice, well...
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I tell yuh. The moms in the neighborhood I grew up in were rough. They didn't put up with any shenanigans. If their kids got out of line they did not hesitate to waste them where they stood. And it was perfectly acceptable for a mom to trash another kid in the neighborhood too. They had unwritten permission. It was like a mom pact. Any kid was fair game. It was rare for a dad to have to get involved (pity the kid when he did). The moms took care of business.
My mom's favorite day of the year: First day of school.
My mom's least favorite day of the year: Last day of school.
Respectfully but our "Founders" were not special people. They did get a better starter hand, like getting a 3 of spades and a 7 of diamonds vs a suited King and Queen starter hand in life. It's great to have time to ponder how others should live when you get the later hand, but "the mob" aren't somehow less valuable; it's just that in random those lucky hands are rare and crap hands are common. I'd say this is confusing luck of the draw with earned, fair, right, truth, more intelligent, the list goes on and on.
p.s. Okay to be fair they did seem to see past being entitled, but I spent so much time with narcissists and sociopaths, I have learned, they will just say whatever for personal benefit. Still happening.
My friend, it's a Democratic Republic or maybe better termed Representative Democracy.
The elected representatives are supposed to represent We The People.
Now, I should have said "proper democratic republic" but my point isn't that we should or shouldn't have a representative democracy, but rather that we the people, not the corporations, are what is supposed to be represented.
I was in no way referring to a "pure democracy" where there's no representatives.
But let's not drop democracy out of the republic.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-states-of-america-a-republic-or-a-democracy/
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