Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
- Thread starter Oliver
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Till May. That's what we've been saying all along. All this attention on the flavor ban and in the end it's a fart in a windstorm compared to May.OK, so what happens to fruity-COPYRIGHTDMCA pod systems? Nixed, right?
But BT's pod systems (with tobacco or menthol flavors) are still a go, right? And at gas stations too.
So other than flavors, after May, it's all still theoretically the same pending doom? I'm afraid I'm getting too damn confused now.
Bottom line is that BT and indirectly BP still "win", optimism aside. The only thing Trump et al has done is allow flavors until May? Or what about the refillable pod systems? So those could be flavored IF they're made by BT or whomever gets a PMTA approved, right?
The one thing that is very different about this Guidance document, vs previous ones, is the emphasis on teen vaping and cartridge systems. That language was repeated over and over.
An optimistic view, I know, but it definitely appears that the emphasis will be going after the pod systems, and their distribution avenues. Logistically, the resources of the FDA are clearly limited. They cant target the entirety of vaping all at once.
PMTA enforcement is clearly discretionary. I think the future of open systems will be determined by the teen vaping statistics in 2021. Those numbers will make or break the rest of the market.
Funny, many of us thought (myself included) that open systems were going to get obliterated, and that Pods would be all that was left. It appears the exact opposite is occurring.
Alas, teens are resourceful, I remember how resourceful I was. If they choose to vape, no regs will stop them. The law damn sure didnt stop me from defying chemistry.......
An optimistic view, I know, but it definitely appears that the emphasis will be going after the pod systems, and their distribution avenues. Logistically, the resources of the FDA are clearly limited. They cant target the entirety of vaping all at once.
PMTA enforcement is clearly discretionary. I think the future of open systems will be determined by the teen vaping statistics in 2021. Those numbers will make or break the rest of the market.
Funny, many of us thought (myself included) that open systems were going to get obliterated, and that Pods would be all that was left. It appears the exact opposite is occurring.
Alas, teens are resourceful, I remember how resourceful I was. If they choose to vape, no regs will stop them. The law damn sure didnt stop me from defying chemistry.......
Yeah, maybe. I'm not sure that's true.
How many open systems will pass the May deadline? Just because the Fed doesn't "like" pods, doesn't mean they won't or haven't approved them for sale past May.
That's all what's making my head hurt now. In the end, they approve them or they don't. And vape shop flavors are OK, until when? Or if they're always OK, then used in what?
I still think Vape shops end up doomed without more changes. Not sure now though.
I just don't trust that the numbers given are going to be accurate.
Many have thought last year's numbers were skewed against vaping...
My crystal ball is cracked, so I really dont have a clue what they will do.
However, the opportunity is there for them to leave us an out, and still be able to look politically decisive.
However, the opportunity is there for them to leave us an out, and still be able to look politically decisive.
A Provarinati made that for me. It's a Provarinati monk praying to a Provari. I miss those days.
I wouldn't say the Fed don't like pods. I'd say say they don't like flavored pods. I think the only thing that may get PMTAs are tobacco and menthol flavored closed pods.
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I have 11 Evolv chip mods (in service/backups), but have no idea how long they'll last, but not a lifetime.
I have backup tanks, but no idea how long they last...
Looks like the Evolv mods I like are off the market. JAC Vapor has a black B-Series but the Sandstorm is gone and they have nothing else DNA. I have 4 VT75 Nano's, wished I got more (my favorite), are discontinued. The Paranormal is slim pickens' and not in a style I want.
Looks like the Siren 2 is almost sold out every where and whats left is a bit more expensive then what I was paying. The clones are only $14, I heard they were good but have no personal experience.
I can get 3 JAC's for just under $200, just kills me to stock up on stuff with no guarantee really.
Is it worth it? Will they last? I hate wasting money, hate getting caught with my pants down more though.
My e juice is down to 2mg, I guess I should check out 1mg next month, I may be able to go without or at least not require a lot in case it really does go to $1,000 a litter which seems more than abusive.
Decisions, decisions.............
I am hoping they at least drop mod boxes, UL certified sure, but whats the point of the FDA regulating them?
Whatever the motivation, limiting retail pod flavors while letting most vape businesses off the hook a bit does help. It will give the people who own and work at vape businesses more time to wrap up. Selling off stock, paying bills and job hunting take some time.
But for the deeming process, limited point of sale pod flavors, age 21+ and open systems at vape shops would have been a tolerable outcome.
Oh well.
But for the deeming process, limited point of sale pod flavors, age 21+ and open systems at vape shops would have been a tolerable outcome.
Oh well.
^^^^THIS^^^^
And they know it.
It's not about "saving children", it's about control and taxation.
Which is why I hope for the best, but plan for the worst.
Thank You for Posting this Guidance.
From the Link...
III. DEFINITIONS
For purposes of this guidance, FDA intends to use the following definitions:
Cartridge-based ENDS products are a type of ENDS product that consists of, includes, or involves a cartridge or pod that holds liquid that is to be aerosolized through product use. For purposes of this definition, a cartridge or pod is any small, enclosed unit (sealed or unsealed) designed to fit within or operate as part of an electronic nicotine delivery system. 20
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20 An example of products that would not be captured by this definition include completely self-contained, disposable products.
A little more info from HHS about how it will be enforced:
https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020...ed-flavored-cartridge-based-e-cigarettes.html
https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020...ed-flavored-cartridge-based-e-cigarettes.html
The potential is there but the repeated commentary which I can paraphrase to "We can shut down anything we like anytime we like if we don't like what we are seeing" makes me very nervous about availability even before May 2020. Specifically about seizing goods at customs which is directly mentioned. Can they catch everything? no but it is an added worry.
Far too much room for the FDA to simply accommodate those that throw the most money at them and make the most noise (ie ANTZ groups) and blame it on kids swapping to tank systems to get flavors. They don't even have to back it with facts. They have stated they have the right to shift enforcement over to things on the market that shouldn't be post 2016 anytime they like. Which to be fair they always COULD have done. The threat is there in the document. We can and will shut it off when we want to for whatever reason we want to.
I think being able to get your hands on 100mg nic would be extremely unlikely. That's why many of us have stocked up for a lifetime.
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