Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Lessifer]

@bobwho77 ,you are quite right. I have been consistently poo-poo'ed in the
past for insisting that vapers should vape everywhere and very often.
I personally do not even care which style of vaping is used because it is
irrelevant to the issue.

vaping bans are not about health or what might harm or offend anyone.
That was never the intent the same as smoking. Bans are for one reason
and one reason only. Control (conformity) and,controlling public opinion.
It's banned in public,ergo, it must be bad. Pre-smoking bans public opinion
was against bans. Post smoking ban ,especially as we see it today public
opinion is overwhelmingly for smoking bans. The powers that be are using the
same play book. Society must not be allowed to make up its own mind.
If smoking in public was allowed to prevail sooner or later the public would
figure out all the second hand crap was bunk. The long term studies are baring
this out. The public does not know nor in all probability care because second hand
smoke kills,right? This is why vaping in public absolutly with out a doubt must be banned.
Just one encounter between a vaper and non vaper must be avoided if at all
possible. Vaping compared to smoking in every aspect is so benign anyone
who was exposed to it just might come to the immediate conclusion that
the government is full of it. People enter or pass by candle stores,herb and aroma
stores all the time with no ill affects. Not even fake coughing. They know the smell
can't hurt them. They have experienced this in the past with no ill effects.
The biggest dirty little secret is society has,can and,will work out the issues
of vaping etiquette just as they had with smoking before the bans.
This must not be allowed.

Regards
Mike

Actually, walking past bath and body works gives me a headache, I can't spend more than a few minutes in there.

 

[halonut]

Actually, walking past bath and body works gives me a headache, I can't spend more than a few minutes in there.

that's why I never walk past one but when my wife does it makes my wallet hurt.

 

[classwife]

Actually, walking past bath and body works gives me a headache, I can't spend more than a few minutes in there.

I can't even use anything from there much less walk in there.
I have given away so much lotion from that place (people love to give as Christmas/Birthday gifts)
Wonderful to be remembered for a gift...but ugh
And the fragrance areas in department stores...have to scurry through quickly while trying to hold my breath...why the heck do they put them right at the entrance so you have to go through them !

 

[DaveP]

That was part of Brickman's essay, as well. We (the vaping community) have been almost entirely reactive in our approach. We try to counter raw emotionalism with simple facts, and it doesn't work. This isn't going to be about the facts. It's going to be about swaying public opinion.
Whether it's accurate or not, the public image of vaping has been allowed to be driven by the convention/competition/hipster scene, and by people who IMO are simply being rude.
If your opinion of cars was formed only by what you saw at Autorama, and your local cruise night, reinforced by news stories of teenagers dieing while racing in the streets, what would you think of them?
When we're fighting a propaganda war FACTS DON'T MATTER!
We need the PUBLIC IMAGE of vaping to better reflect the 99% of "invisible" vapers you were talking about. We need to be PROACTIVE in projecting that image to the public, with radio, and TV spots, YouTube videos, print media ads, etc.
I can come up with a couple of campaign themes, already.

But ... but ... but ...

It's all about protecting the children! NOT!

It's illegal for them to buy ecigs. It's about protecting big tobacco profits so that they can pay off the master tobacco settlement agreement.

Wait! Big Tobacco doesn't need protection with $35B in profits! So what IS it all about? How about government control and cronyism.
Global profits for tobacco trade total $35bn as smoking deaths top 6 million

 

[DaveP]

@bobwho77
People enter or pass by candle stores,herb and aroma
stores all the time with no ill affects. Not even fake coughing. They know the smell can't hurt them. They have experienced this in the past with no ill effects.
The biggest dirty little secret is society has,can and,will work out the issues
of vaping etiquette just as they had with smoking before the bans.
This must not be allowed.

Regards
Mike

Passing by Candle and Bath stores is fine. Entering one can make your pocketbook grow smaller.

 

[Qew]

I do believe...

And how can I NOT...

>

We’ve taken care of everything -
The words you read, the songs you sing.
The pictures that give pleasure to your eye.
One for all and all for one -
Work together, common sons.
Never need to wonder How or Why...

I used to trust the media To tell me the truth, tell us the truth
But now I've seen the payoffs Everywhere I look
Who do you trust when everyone's a crook?
Queensryche - Revolution Calling - Operation Mindcrime - 1988

Seven years of power, The corporation claw
The rich control the government, the media the law
To make some kind of difference Then everyone must know
Eradicate the fascists, revolution will grow
Queensryche - Speak - Operation Mindcrime - 1988

I'm sharpening the axe,
my palms are getting wet,
here I go again!

I can't let these go by without adding this song, it's timeless.

 

[bobwho77]

@bobwho77 ,you are quite right. I have been consistently poo-poo'ed in the
past for insisting that vapers should vape everywhere and very often.
I personally do not even care which style of vaping is used because it is
irrelevant to the issue.

Vaping bans are not about health or what might harm or offend anyone.
That was never the intent the same as smoking. Bans are for one reason
and one reason only. Control (conformity) and,controlling public opinion.
It's banned in public,ergo, it must be bad. Pre-smoking bans public opinion
was against bans. Post smoking ban ,especially as we see it today public
opinion is overwhelmingly for smoking bans. The powers that be are using the
same play book. Society must not be allowed to make up its own mind.
If smoking in public was allowed to prevail sooner or later the public would
figure out all the second hand crap was bunk. The long term studies are baring
this out. The public does not know nor in all probability care because second hand
smoke kills,right? This is why vaping in public absolutly with out a doubt must be banned.
Just one encounter between a vaper and non vaper must be avoided if at all
possible. Vaping compared to smoking in every aspect is so benign anyone
who was exposed to it just might come to the immediate conclusion that
the government is full of it. People enter or pass by candle stores,herb and aroma
stores all the time with no ill affects. Not even fake coughing. They know the smell
can't hurt them. They have experienced this in the past with no ill effects.
The biggest dirty little secret is society has,can and,will work out the issues
of vaping etiquette just as they had with smoking before the bans.
This must not be allowed.

Regards
Mike

Not saying you're wrong. Those issues COULD have been worked out BEFORE all the bans were in place. Now it's going to be MUCH more difficult.
While we've been sitting around, vaping quietly, the ANTZ (gently urged along by their erstwhile enemies in BT/BP)
have been "controlling the narrative" and "framing the issues". We've pushed back, but it's been playing a defensive game. We respond to their lies by stating the facts like we're dealing with rational human beings. We aren't dealing with rational human beings, we're dealing with emotional animals. We need to change the way vaping is perceived on THAT level, before anyone will listen to the facts

 

[budynbuick]

Advise to reconsider some of what he actually means by that:

"Plato describes political rule as the “science of guardianship,” an exacting discipline that requires special knowledge and skills accessible only to a few. A stable society requires a system of rigorous training so those best suited to rule will be able to discharge their proper functions.

"A stable system of law (including custom, a kind of unwritten law) demands that members of a society be imbued with uniform and unchanging values. And because even the slightest deviation in social behavior can influence character, rulers should discourage innovation. All innovations in song and dance should be prohibited. This can be achieved, in accordance with the Egyptian example, by sanctifying orthodox music and dance — i.e., by investing them with religious significance. This means that an innovator can be exiled or, should he resist, charged with impiety (a capital crime in Plato’s ideal society). Plato feared innovation so much that he even opposed new games for children: “If children introduce novelties into their games, they’ll inevitably turn out to be quite different people from the previous generation; being different, they’ll demand a different kind of life, and that will then make them want new institutions and laws.”

"Plato is just getting started. The purpose of censorship is to insure that only “the fairest lessons of virtue” are taught to children......"

Also suggest reading the whole article, esp. after the passage above:
The Roots of State Education Part 2: Plato's Case Against Free-Market Education[/QUOTE


This would have been required knowledge for a child to graduate into the 8th grade in 1895. A small percentage of 4th year college students can pass that same test today. Almost sounds like a "dad-burn" conspiracy? Naw, that's crazy talk?

 

[DC2]

We aren't dealing with rational human beings, we're dealing with emotional animals. We need to change the way vaping is perceived on THAT level, before anyone will listen to the facts

We needed to get out front with the message that vaping saves lives.
But I'm not sure anyone could afford to do that back then.

 

[Lessifer]

I can't even use anything from there much less walk in there.
I have given away so much lotion from that place (people love to give as Christmas/Birthday gifts)
Wonderful to be remembered for a gift...but ugh
And the fragrance areas in department stores...have to scurry through quickly while trying to hold my breath...why the heck do they put them right at the entrance so you have to go through them !

That's why they put them at the entrance, so you HAVE to go through them. At least they don't spray you as you walk by anymore.

 

[Rickb119]

the ANTZ (gently urged along

The term "useful idiots" comes to mind.

 

[Lessifer]

We needed to get out front with the message that vaping saves lives.
But I'm not sure anyone could afford to do that back then.

So we need to hit that hammer harder now. I love reading and watching the testimonials that CASAA collects, or the comments people leave on the petition, but the only ones reading those are us, if that.

We need an "ice bucket challenge," we need people sharing their stories, every day people. We need a viral movement of grandmas asking their grandkids for support. Millennials asking their peers and their parents.

 

[skoony]

Not saying you're wrong. Those issues COULD have been worked out BEFORE all the bans were in place. Now it's going to be MUCH more difficult.
While we've been sitting around, vaping quietly, the ANTZ (gently urged along by their erstwhile enemies in BT/BP)
have been "controlling the narrative" and "framing the issues". We've pushed back, but it's been playing a defensive game. We respond to their lies by stating the facts like we're dealing with rational human beings. We aren't dealing with rational human beings, we're dealing with emotional animals. We need to change the way vaping is perceived on THAT level, before anyone will listen to the facts

Your right,there's that too. I know a lot of people here are to young to remember
but,prior to the smoking bans the issues of where and when to smoke were all
worked out. Smokers,BT,and the majority of the non-smoking were dead set against
the smoking bans. Despite what one might think there was scientific evidence on
both sides of the issue that was equally as compelling. It was during this time one
starting hearing ad nauseam the catch phrase," (insert anything here), funded that study don't trust
it.".
Regards
Mike

 

[DPLongo22]

Senate Democrats Applaud FDA E-Cigarette Prohibition

 

[classwife]

Senate Democrats Applaud FDA E-Cigarette Prohibition

Murderers

 

[Train2]

Well, in a moment of "but what if" I decided I might regret too much delay.
So I bumped to stock to something around 5 years' worth of Nic.
Hopefully, that won't turn out to be the smartest thing I ever did...

 

[DPLongo22]

Well, in a moment of "but what if" I decided I might regret too much delay.
So I bumped to stock to something around 5 years' worth of Nic.
Hopefully, that won't turn out to be the smartest thing I ever did...

I'm already packed with approx. 20 years worth (with a bit of "cutdown" effort).

I said the same thing. "I hope this money ends up being wasted."

 

[DPLongo22]

Murderers

I've been exchanging form letters with my Dick, who (to no surprise) shows up at the top of the list.

His parents named him well.

 

[budynbuick]

I can't let these go by without adding this song, it's timeless.

Great stuff. Thanks. Don't step on the grass! John K was seeing things back then that most were oblivious of. I saw them a couple of years ago on PBS. They rocked better then ever!

 

[DC2]

Well, in a moment of "but what if" I decided I might regret too much delay.
So I bumped to stock to something around 5 years' worth of Nic.
Hopefully, that won't turn out to be the smartest thing I ever did...

I bought 12 of the EHPRO Kayfun Lite Plus clones when they were on sale for $6.99
But they are in a box in the closet and I hope to never have to use them.

I bought 9 of the ZMax V3s when then were on sale for $9.99
They are in the same box, and I hope I never have to use them either.


I have around 200 of the standard 510 atomizers that I use for dripping on my Ego Twists.
I got around 150 of them on sale for a buck apiece awhile back.

If I use one each month, and account for the occasional DOA atomizer...
They will last me over 15 years...

But I keep forgetting to change over to a new one each month.
The last one was still going strong on month three before I remembered to switch.