I don't trust BT as far as I can throw them. Sorry. You go ahead and believe what you will. BT fights for themselves not us. When the day of reckoning comes they'll make sure they are taken care of and drop the vaping interests like a bad habit. Let's see where they spend their lobbying/litigation money (or if they spend it) and how they spend it...right to the very end.
Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
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Haha, if it wasn't expensive to apply (I'm assuming it cost money to apply as well as to do the research, not quite clear on that) I'd start submitting a bunch of PMTA applications for q-tips, paper towels, rayon, wet wipes, screwdrivers, wire clippers, etc...
Ultimately leading to the Demise if DIY users.............No thanks.
I strictly purchase in 100mg/ml strength for simplicity of use.
.3ml in 10ml mix = 3mg/ml
.9ml in 30ml mix = 3mg/ml
The Product can be safely handled and provides for easy storage with minimal environmental impact - less containers per usage for disposal.
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Astro turfing ? Astro turfing my behind !
Vaping's been grass roots from the very beginning.
How long has vaping been around till you saw the first prime time commercial for it ?
Regulated box mods trace their origins to mech mods.
Mech mods crafted by vapers.
I daresay that the innovation and evolution is driven by the vapers themselves.
Industry just follows suit.
Remember where you saw the first Clapton coil ?
Was it a vendors website or a youtuber's channel ?
And if vaping gets a dunk, it'll just become grass root again. Growing like a mycelium.
Advertising or rather banning it ranks very high in their list. Tryin to keep the remaining smokers ignorant is top priority in their books. Cuz someone who isn't aware of viable alternatives, isn't going to look for one.
Penning in the sheep ...
????I think you missed my point.
To get an Idea of Cost, read through this:
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/TobaccoProducts/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/UCM277665.pdf
There is No APPLICATION per say, only a Monstrous list of Documentation required for submission for Application(Permission) to Market a Product.
Then Add in the Per Hour FDA charge up to or Exceeding 5000 hours.
Was wondering if a US manufacturer of eliquids, was manufacturing said eliquid in the US for a customer in lets say Britain, and this eliquid was of course tpd compliant, and not to be sold in the US, would this surpass said deeming regulations?
You've cracked the code. They want us to live in fear. In fear of foreign enemies. In fear of terrorists. In fear of violent criminals. In fear of climate change. In fear of "dishonest" businesses who wish to poison the children with second-hand smoke (or vapor). Such fears lead people give up their freedoms, to delegate ever more power and give more ever wealth government, in the (mostly false) belief that government will "protect" them. It's practically the same strategy used by organized religion for thousands of years.
Bravo!
But we were talking about why Big Tobacco would support the Cole-Bishop amendment.
If the Cole-Bishop amendment passes nothing has to go through the PMTA process.
That's why I didn't understand what applications you were referring to.
I totally agree with everything you just wrote....just don't know why you used my posting as a vaulting point since they are basically saying the same thing??
But we were talking about why Big Tobacco would support the Cole-Bishop amendment.
If the Cole-Bishop amendment passes nothing has to go through the PMTA process.
That's why I didn't understand what applications you were referring to.
Even IF Cole-Bishop passes, it still Stops Market advancement! However there are Benefits in the Amendment that play into Best Interest of BT.
It Unquestionably Solidifies their products in Market and they have the Best chance of even getting SE Applications Approved.(also most finances
)Not really.
I take it as a given that they're reading along.
Just as our vaping fellas from the 'fine city' know that certain parties take an undue interest in their postings.
Meaning any creative impetus from the vaping community runs the risk of getting hijacked or squashed.
Above post was just meant to outline the creative energy that came from the vapers themselves.
So no wonder they'll be milking the 'enemy' for 'intelligence'. Could save them a ton of bread in R & D .
Scared of what vaping ingenuity might come up with next, they are.
Who knows? Water vaper from potato concentrate ?
BT got caught with their pants down on the vaping thing. Surely they won't let that happen again.
I've got nothing to hide. I'm interested in living longer and healthier while enjoying an alternative that gives me the chance to do that. Most natural motivation for any human being there is.
I have no plans biting the dust in favour of your bottom line.
Cuz you see, the people around me, they 'profit' in a different way when I'm with them a little longer.
One more hug. One more kiss. One more smile.
Nothing that your accumulated 'profits' could pay for ...
I take it as a given that they're reading along.
Just as our vaping fellas from the 'fine city' know that certain parties take an undue interest in their postings.
Meaning any creative impetus from the vaping community runs the risk of getting hijacked or squashed.
Above post was just meant to outline the creative energy that came from the vapers themselves.
So no wonder they'll be milking the 'enemy' for 'intelligence'. Could save them a ton of bread in R & D .
Scared of what vaping ingenuity might come up with next, they are.
Who knows? Water vaper from potato concentrate ?
BT got caught with their pants down on the vaping thing. Surely they won't let that happen again.
I've got nothing to hide. I'm interested in living longer and healthier while enjoying an alternative that gives me the chance to do that. Most natural motivation for any human being there is.
I have no plans biting the dust in favour of your bottom line.
Cuz you see, the people around me, they 'profit' in a different way when I'm with them a little longer.
One more hug. One more kiss. One more smile.
Nothing that your accumulated 'profits' could pay for ...
Whoa now friend. I have the same sentiments regarding BT.
I just brought this whole thing up because someone up the line stated Big Tobacco had a hand in writing these regs. Far from the truth.
It's certainly a head-scratcher to be sure.
Seems to be the only way to kill the flood of subtanks.
Wonder what the Youtube hardware reviewers will do.
While I will admit that open tobacco systems allow for better flavor options.
I'm not sure the flavor is THAT much better to widely overcome the convenience factor.
But when it comes to vaping, the gap between flavors is much wider.
Altria doesn't have Unicorn Milk or Tribeca.
And many people feel the wide range of choices is more important than convenience.
On the other hand, the FDA can still wipe out flavors if Cole-Bishop gets through.
So I guess I'm gonna have to think on all this a bit more.
This whole thing about Altria supporting Cole-Bishop really has me scratching my head.
If any open systems are available at all, then Altria flavor offerings aren't going to cut it.
But maybe they'll just start reselling Unicorn Milk or something.
Or maybe just buy someone out so they have a good lineup of flavors?
I wish I knew what I was missing here.
Ultimately leading to the Demise if DIY users.............No thanks.
I strictly purchase in 100mg/ml strength for simplicity of use.
.3ml in 10ml mix = 3mg/ml
1.2ml in 30ml mix = 3mg/ml
The Product can be safely handled and provides for easy storage with minimal environmental impact - less containers per usage for disposal.
Same strategy also used by organized crime, by aristocrats, by any falsely claiming any authority over anyone else. They use enforcers to force us to obey policy, look at the police, policy enforcer. If they can cause enough fear and people start policing themselves, it gets termed self censorship. Where censorship lives so do tyrants.
Kind of surprised that so far the citizens/serfs are not taking up the Roman tradition of painting towns red. Although, I maybe ought not be surprised considering. Seems 9 out of 10 times the house wins. Don't think anyone has tended the count to know which time we face currently.
One thing Halo will have a hard time getting is the distribution channel that BT has. You are exactly right. BT won't develop their own unique line if the GF date is changed. They will buy their way into the market. The industry has already figured out what is popular.
BT won't be interested in niche or boutique anything. A good analogy is Miller Lite vs AlphaHoppy's Super Barley Pale Dark Stoutaporter. Miller Lite is cheap and in every single store that sells beer in the US. AlpaHoppy is in niche boutiques. Does Miller care? Nope, they got their cheap beer on every shelf and millions of drinkers to buy it.
IF open systems are allowed, BT will dominate the cheap and "palatable" juice market. Expensive niche juice will be there for those who can afford it and desire it. But it won't compete with BTs convenience store sales.
Once taxes are figured out, I highly doubt nic juice will be available online. It will need a state tax stamp just like alcohol and cigs.
Whoa now friend. I have the same sentiments regarding BT.
I just brought this whole thing up because someone up the line stated Big Tobacco had a hand in writing these regs. Far from the truth.
It's certainly a head-scratcher to be sure.
Actually inference may be to Writting the Original Regs establishing 2007 Deeming, which it is well documented - they were extremely involved with. That is the very core<PMTA/SU/SE> of these revisited Deeming Regulation updates.
*BT, along with the FDA, Built a BOX only they Fit into.
I'm not 100% sure of this. So someone Correct me if I'm Wrong.
But I believe that the FDA Rule Set Only applies to Sales and Distribution Inside the USA.
They only have jurisdiction within the US. There are plenty of meds not approved for sale by the FDA in the US that are unavailable in other countries, with or without a prescription.
So long as the reviewer is not selling or distributing the product, or receiving compensation to review the product from the seller, they can do and say whatever they like. First Amendment rights are not waived by any regulation or pending bill. The FDA only has standing in enforcing regulation of advertising and marketing of the tobacco (or any other product under their perview) to by the seller/marketer, just as the FTC can regulate advertising for other consumer products to prevent false claims.
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