Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

Str8vision

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Sounds

Sounds suspiciously like the "we just don't know enough" argument. And of course there are many here reporting 5 years or more successful storage but I don't want to confuse the discussion with more facts or evidence. You are free to believe what you want although I doubt you will convince many here of your belief


Yep, if properly stored liquid nic will last far longer than I will. While several old timers here on ECF have confirmed it's suitability for long term storage I actually gained my information from a chemist who makes liquid nic. The colder it's stored the longer it'll last in storage. I've stocked up, have no intention of quitting, paying ten times more for it, driving a hundred miles to legally purchase it or of returning to smoking. Cheap insurance.
 

Lessifer

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The following is just my morose musings about all of this. I have no legal background. I have read plenty of stuff put out by the FDA though in the past couple years. Just wanted to get some thoughts out.

Count One:
ENDS can apply for SE once a product has been approved via PMTA. FDA does not have the authority to change the grandfather date, as it was set by Congress.

Count Two:
The two year period is not a deadline to file, it is a deadline to file before products must be removed from market. Manufacturers can apply for PMTA after the compliance period, they will simply not be able to market their unapproved product in the meantime.
Also, the PMTA process was set forth by Congress, the FDA is simply upholding the standard for new tobacco products to ensure benefit to public health.

Count Three:
Regulate, not ban, if ENDS are better for public health the manufacturer should be able to provide sufficient data to support this.

Count Four:
I got nothing.

Count Five:
Again, if ENDS are lower risk products, they should be able to provide suffcient evidence of public health benefit, which would then open them up to MRTP marketing.

Count Six:
As tobacco product components affect the tobacco product's performance, composition, constituents, or characteristics they pose significant public health questions of their own, therefore the agency deems their regulation necessary to the benefit of public health.

Count Seven:
The Agency expects the adverse impact of the regulations to be mitigated by industry consolidation and conversion from manufacturing to retail, though some market exit is unavoidable, it is necessary for the benefit of the public health.

Count Eight:
The Agency feels the benefit of protecting future generations from the harms of tobacco use outweigh any potential costs to the tobacco industry.
 

Bronze

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I think a little of that has to do with the fact that the govt. there covers health care, so they have a vested interest in helping people get/stay healthy...hence, actually having unbiased studies so they can base decisions on scientific findings.
Here, sick people just feed the herd. :(
I'm sure you're right. But even here (or anywhere) someone or something has a vested interest in people staying healthy and it's a force too large to ignore.
 

Bronze

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Yep, if properly stored liquid nic will last far longer than I will. While several old timers here on ECF have confirmed it's suitability for long term storage I actually gained my information from a chemist who makes liquid nic. The colder it's stored the longer it'll last in storage. I've stocked up, have no intention of quitting, paying ten times more for it, driving a hundred miles to legally purchase it or of returning to smoking. Cheap insurance.
And God Bless you! I'm glad this alternative can work for you and others. I really am. And I'm quite jealous of you. Sadly, it wont work for me. As stated earlier, I have zero faith I could find a DIY/EDV. Not after sampling several hundred flavors from various, successful juice companies developed by artisans and coming up with one (maybe two) flavors I can actually enjoy enough to keep me off smokes.

Question: what is the shelf life of flavorings?
 
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wiredlove

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And God Bless you! I'm glad this alternative can work for you and others. I really am. And I'm quite jealous of you. Sadly, it wont work for me. As stated earlier, I have zero faith I could find a DIY/EDV. Not after sampling several hundred flavors from various, successful juice companies developed by artisans and coming up with one (maybe two) flavors I can actually enjoy enough to keep me off smokes.

Question: what is the shelf life of flavorings?
Concentrated flavors do not spoil, or go rancid, like fruit juices can. But under certain conditions they can change. In other words, you will notice that a "fresh" bottle might seem different from an older bottle. Basically, what my flavor manufacturer tells me is that the flavors have a shelf life of at least three to six months and often much longer, when they are not continuously opened and are stored in glass. It is not necessary to store them in the refrigerator, but I don't think that this would hurt them. But sometimes refrigeration can cause re-crystallization of flavors that have a lot of the crystals like ethyl maltol in them.
https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/flavorsworkshop/shelf_life.pdf

That said, I treat my stored flavors exactly like my stored nic. Transferred to smaller glass bottles, filled mostly full, frozen, etc, etc.
 

Woofer

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1) I am as finicky as it gets. I've sampled hundreds of flavors but have only two I find as acceptable every day vapes. I have zero confidence I could DIY a flavor I like. I'd go back to smoking before that happened. I know me. :)

Perhaps but it is not generally hard to make and flavor e liquid.
Single flavors are really easy actually. :D

What flavors do you vape?
 

bnrkwest

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Thanks. :)
I don't even know why it's hitting me so hard today, I'm stocked up, my life is going to change little, if any.
As it stands, I won't need to buy another thing for many, many years to come.
Maybe that's what triggered it, actually finishing the stocking up process.

But thinking about so many that are oblivious to it all, or not taking it seriously, or those who are concerned, but the folks at their B & M are telling them things will be just fine.
I got to that point too, first came frantic buying, vape mail coming in made me feel better then I felt sad, then I felt in limbo, waiting for next shoe to drop. I thought I was done stocking but little things I am still buying while I can. I do feel better stocked up but it is still sad.
 

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LoriP1702

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I got to that point too, first came frantic buying, vape mail coming in made me feel better then I felt sad, then I felt in limbo, waiting for next shoe to drop. I thought I was done stocking but little things I am still buying while I can. I do feel better stocked up but it is still sad.

Well, and wiredlove just reminded me that I still need bottles for my flavorings...:facepalm:

The next thing that's going to just break my heart is when these vendors start closing.
I know some probably already have. :(
 

Bob Chill

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I've had flavor concentrates in my room temp mix box for nearly 3 years and they are all fine. I have no idea what the shelf life is but I've never had one "go bad" on me. Freezing flavor concentrates is a bit of a debate in the DIY sub. IMHO- if it seems like it doesn't alter or separate a flavor by freezing it then it's no problem. Unlike nic base, there is no definitive data as to whether freezing is good or bad.
 

Bronze

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Perhaps but it is not generally hard to make and flavor e liquid.
Single flavors are really easy actually. :D

What flavors do you vape?
I vape three flavors (in order of preference)

1) Tobacco
2) Tobacco
3) Tobacco

While I enjoy some of the fruit, dessert, and beverage flavors they hold my interest for maybe an hour and I've had more than enough before I crave my tobacco. I guess I can be compared to coffee drinkers (though I don't drink coffee). They can drink tea but take their coffee away and they go mental. :D
 

bnrkwest

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Well, and wiredlove just reminded me that I still need bottles for my flavorings...:facepalm:

The next thing that's going to just break my heart is when these vendors start closing.
I know some probably already have. :(
Yes I keep finding little things I need too :) Yes my one vendor in Indiana is already moving to another state because he can no longer sell juice come July 1. It is happening.
 

Woofer

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So flavorings go south before nic solution?

Yes, although much anecdotal evidence suggests they last considerably longer than supplier's suggested shelf life. It is important to note flavors do not spoil/go bad/rot but the taste can fade or develop new nuances like wine or scotch.
 

LoriP1702

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So flavorings go south before nic solution?
Yes. Depending on what the flavoring is.
It's possible some flavorings never go bad. But I'm not the one to answer much of that.
I found a few simple mixes that I could live with. I'm not thrilled with my DIY mixes, but I'll take that over the stinkies for now.
Have you tried non-tobacco flavors. Totally non-tobacco flavors?

My DH doesn't like any of the flavors. He still smokes, only vapes if he is somewhere he absolutely cannot smoke.

Did I read the CASAA CTA correctly?

Is Illinois the next to push legislation to go 21+ on Tobacco and e-Cigarettes?
Yes. Last I saw the vote got pushed off.
I do need to go check to see where that's at.

...and I hate to be negative again, but in Illinois it's a real uphill battle as far as fighting what "the powers that be" decide is good for us.
 

Woofer

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I vape three flavors (in order of preference)

1) Tobacco
2) Tobacco
3) Tobacco

While I enjoy some of the fruit, dessert, and beverage flavors they hold my interest for maybe an hour and I've had more than enough before I crave my tobacco. I guess I can be compared to coffee drinkers (though I don't drink coffee). They can drink tea but take their coffee away and they go mental. :D

Gotcha, I am similar and I drink coffee. ;)

I am sure Hangsen has flavors you would enjoy.

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...discussion-tobacco-flavoring-discussion-only/

Yeah OK I'll leave you alone now. :w00t::lol:
 

Kent C

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https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/flavorsworkshop/shelf_life.pdf

That said, I treat my stored flavors exactly like my stored nic. Transferred to smaller glass bottles, filled mostly full, frozen, etc, etc.

Kurt on flavor storage:

What's everyones thoughts on freezing flavoring

For typical, nonorganic flavors I store in well-sealed glass at room temperature, and mine have stayed stable for years. I don't see an issue with cooling them, but like nic solution, they should be brought to room temp before opening.

DOOMSDAY Prepping For the Possible FDA Restriction

Freezing flavored juices is probably ok, but I do not do this. I make fresh enough for a couple weeks, then make more. Mainly because I have found most flavors over time fade into less pleasant vaping. Tobacco flavors tend to be the opposite...they get better with time, maybe because of oxidation of the nic and other tobacco flavor compounds! Flavors will never be illegal, probably including tobacco flavors. I am fine with vaping good quality unflavored nic, however, so that is not much of an issue with me if there is a ban.

Me: I've kept mine in the cool basement and now in the refrigerator but not freezer. Suggest never store with rubber - like rubber droppers that some flavors come with. The stuff from 2013 still tastes the same to me and DW. Everything is in amber glass with PE caps.

I freeze diluents (as Kurt suggests) - for me VG/H2O mix... no problems so far.
 
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zoiDman

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...and I hate to be negative again, but in Illinois it's a real uphill battle as far as fighting what "the powers that be" decide is good for us.

Trust me Lori, having lived Most of my life in California, I Don't look on that as being a Negative Attitude.

;)
 

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