Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Robino1]

Gutfeld has been pro vaping for a long time now. You should look up a few of his rants on YouTube.

Classic stuff. I follow him on twitter. He doesn't tweet much about ecigs but once in a while he does.

 

[skoony]

I don't see lithium batteries being banned.

Lithium batteries nor anything else will be banned however there end use
especially in terms a sale will be regulated. Take a little trip to market
and see what happens when you buy sudafed or anhydrous ammonia.
both these products are legal to buy however their use is regulated.
Regards
Mike
sudafed/sue da Fed
Did you see what I did there?

 

[Alexander Mundy]

I remember that from the 70's. I had that inserted into the clear cover of my school folders.

 

[Belushi]

I've been doing that (tweeting to him about a vaping stance).
I've seen him as our best bet for months now.

Agree, politicians aren't afraid of us vapors, we need to get the word out there is a voting block to be had...

 

[sparkky1]

They absolutely do intend to regulate the batteries. Even if they have other uses. My best guess would be that any shop or online seller will simply remove things like the batteries, wires, silica, etc. from their offerings. Or maybe they could set up a separate company to sell only those things, but I imagine that if FDA saw that an online company selling only generic things like the batteries, wire, etc is in anyway associated (like owners of record) to a company that also sells e-liquid or mods or tanks, then it will say the intended use of the products in the generic item company is for the tobacco products in the first company, and will seize their goods for selling unapproved products.

On page 163-164:

This final deeming rule deems all tobacco products as they are defined in section 201(rr) of the FD&C Act, except accessories of newly deemed products, but including components and parts as defined in this rule. The wires, screws, and silica meet the definition of component or part, as they are an assembly of materials intended or reasonably expected to be used with or for the human consumption of a tobacco product and are not accessories of a tobacco product. FDA also remains concerned about reports of exploding batteries. Batteries that are co-packaged with other components or parts of an ENDS (e.g., cartridges and tanks) or otherwise intended or reasonably expected to be used with or for the consumption of ENDS are components or parts and subject to FDA's tobacco product authorities. However, as noted elsewhere in this document, for ENDS hardware or delivery system components or parts, such as batteries, FDA expects that it may be difficult for manufacturers to obtain premarket authorization for such products, given the great extent of possible variations in combinations of hardware components, if all considered and sold separately. Thus, with respect to such apparatus, FDA expects that manufacturers will be most successful where authorization is sought for entire delivery systems, rather than individual components. Elsewhere in this issue of the Federal Register, FDA also has made available draft guidance, which when final will represent some appropriate means of addressing the premarket authorization requirements for newly deemed ENDS products and will include FDA's current thinking regarding compliance with existing voluntary standards for ENDS batteries.
​

And on page 168:

(Comment 75) Some comments stated that items also used for purposes other than for tobacco use (i.e., a lighter or matches that can be used to light candles) should be classified as accessories and, therefore, not subject to FDA's chapter IX authorities. For example, batteries used in advanced personal vaporizers can be found in laptop battery packs or cordless drill packs. These comments also stated that items such as lighters and batteries may (or may not) be used in consumption of a tobacco product or are regulated by the Consumer Product Safety Act (as are child-resistant lighters) and, therefore, should not be subject to FDA's tobacco product authorities.

(Response) FDA agrees that it is not necessary to regulate batteries that are not intended or reasonably expected to be used with a tobacco product under its tobacco product authorities. However, it is important that batteries that are co-packaged with other parts of an ENDS (e.g., cartridges and tanks) or otherwise intended or reasonably expected to be used with ENDS are components subject to FDA's tobacco product authorities. FDA remains concerned about reports of exploding e-cigarette batteries and finds that regulating them can help address these problems.​

Maybe DON'T buy your battery's from a vape company ?
Purchasing an 18650 battery should be the very least of your worry's ................

 

[DaveP]

I look for lots of pushback from people who value personal freedoms in this country. Yes, there will be regulation, but we can make a difference if sufficient numbers of people flood their congressional reps with intelligent communication from actual vapers.

Banning the hardware is just a way of putting spikes in the road for vapers. I can see the FDA testing juices, but they don't need $300K per submission for every juice and every nic level to test. That's just their way of limiting the producers to a select few with big pockets. The $300K fee is intended to weed out the pack and limit their regulation costs.

A mod with replaceable batteries is subject to user misuse. You can expect any mod with a magnetic battery cover to be banned. Those can come off in a pocket. If someone is careless enough to keep their keys in the same pocket with a mod, the risk of fire and incendiary results can be realized.

I'd hate to go back to tube mods, so I'll be taking advantage of clearance sales to build my collection.

Seriously, I expect the FDA action to be trimmed and pared by Congress to a reasonable level. We all ask for more than we expect to receive and the FDA knows how to play that game. It's up to us to involve congress intensely in protecting our rights as vapers.

If you haven't already, flood your representatives with intelligently written emails and comments using the links in this thread.

 

[JustWondering1]

Gutfeld has been pro vaping for a long time now. You should look up a few of his rants on YouTube.

Classic stuff. I follow him on twitter. He doesn't tweet much about ecigs but once in a while he does.

He's very funny and he is very fired up about the Deeming Regs. I'll definitely check out his YouTube rants!

Thanks!

 

[zoiDman]

...

The FDA has expanded its intended use doctrine to include actual use if the FDA deems
that the seller should have reasonably known that the sales were due to the use
of said items for things under its regulatory control.

...

I have said Many Times that much will have to do with how a product is Marketed/Advertised.

Take 3 Spools of the Exact Same Wire...

Easy for the FDA to Regulate with the word "Vapes" on the product.

---

Perhaps not as Easy. But Intended use thru the use of Clouds on product?

---

Almost Impossible for the FDA to Regulate if sold from a Site that has No Association to Tobacco or Vaping.

 

[7sixtwo]

I saw an episode of The Five, a politically oriented talk show that airs on the Fox News Network, at 5 p.m. (EST) on week days, that aired last night. One of the co-hosts, Greg Gutfeld, is a vaper, and the story they did on the Deeming Regs was very good for our cause! I hope CASAA, or another pro-vaping organization will reach out to Greg and ask him to do other stories. He has his own show, The Greg Gutfeld Show, that airs on Saturday nights, at 8 p.m. EST and again at midnight. If anyone is speaking out against the Deeming regs on twitter, you might want to tweet Greg. His twitter address is @greggutfeld.com. I bet he would retweet your comments to his large audience. I plan to record his show tonight. He was very angry about the Deeming Regs, and I have a hunch he may speak about them on his show tonight.

Gutfeld's good, and I'd like to see John Stossel do a report as well. This kind of ridiculous regulatory overreach is right up his alley.

 

[skoony]

Maybe DON'T buy your battery's from a vape company ?
Purchasing an 18650 battery should be the very least of your worry's ................

This sounds good but for one thing. For instance if a company sells R/C or flashlight mod accessories and has a sudden increase in battery sales that doesn't track with an increase in flashlights or R/C
vehicles the FDA could assume that the company should reasonably know what caused the increase
in said sales if only for the fact that tracking sales for analysis is done quite often more times
than not.

Additionally the FDA could analyze imports of specific items in search of discrepancies
and investigate the causes of these and take appropriate actions if deemed necessary.
all of the of course hinges on the FDA's desire to do so. They certainly could if they chose
to do so. I personally do not believe the FDA will pursue this route unless it is necessary
to effectively control and regulate the market.

Regards
Mike

 

[Sir Kadly]

You are looking at it the wrong way. What the FDA is regulating is what happens to these things
after they are sold. If they wind up in tobacco products by whatever means,either bought directly
for that purpose or indirectly by any means to circumnavigate the regulatory process they are covered
under the FDA's regulatory authority.

Regards
Mike

Except, unless I am severely mistaken in my understanding, their authority ends at the point of sale. All they are able to regulate is what gets sold and how. They have no ability to regulate what the consumer does with something after it has been purchased.

 

[GunMonkeyINTL]

And how do you feel about 20-, 30-, 40-, 50-, 70- and 80-somethings in the same situation?

Are they going to fare any better?

Obviously, the same as I do the 60-somethings I cited in my post. It was a rhetorical reference, specifically, in this case, to a woman named Nancy that I met today when I went in to pickup my Theorem from Samir.

Nancy got turned on by a friend who has nearly got herself off of cigarettes altogether using a little iLeaf box. But Nancy could only justify, for this experimental attempt at quitting cigarettes, buying one of Samir's fixed-v starter kits.

Nancy is making a valid attempt and I rooted for her, the same as I still have to root for myself, as the tobacco addict I will always be, to succeed, but I am, unfortunately, confident that she is going to need to dig still deeper before she finds the solution to forever-quitting.

I'm fearful Samir is not going to be allowed to help her when she comes back later looking to dial in the hope-inspiring first step she walked out with tonight.


Damnit! I'm having a nice booze-buzz evening with the wife, and I'm buzz-blocking myself, thinking about this .....

 

[mightymen]

From Nov 2115 - New CDC Data: More Than 9 Million Adults Vape Regularly in the United States

To think the vaping community has no clout is a misnomer. We need to get united and organized.

Maybe someone could come up with a list of business that support the FDA REGS and we all could boycott them. Starting out with a few at first. Letting media know our intentions in advance and following through. We have the ability to put pressure on those responsible.

Over 9 million people of voting age surely can influence any election.

U.S. Senator Ed Markey (D-Mass.) he SUCKS call for an end to the e-cigarette industry:

The academic research and evidence suggesting e-cigarettes are at least 95 percent and as much as 99 percent healthier than combustible cigarettes continues to mount. Despite the potential boon to public health, tax-hungry lawmakers and fraudulent “public health” groups have waged a war on vaping, pushing for excise taxes on the products throughout the U.S.

http://www.atr.org/new-cdc-data-more-9-million-adults-vape-regularly-united-states#ixzz481Mn9VTQ

 

[zoiDman]

BTW - There was No Slight intended in Post #1607 against Lighting Vapes. I have done Many Purchases from them and their wire is Top Notch. And the Ship Very Quickly.

In Fact, they have All of their Wire On Sale at Amazon right now with Free Shipping.

Amazon.com: Lightning Vapes

 

[Katya]

Obviously, the same as I do the 60-somethings I cited in my post. It was a rhetorical reference, specifically, in this case, to a woman named Nancy that I met today when I went in to pickup my Theorem from Samir.

Nancy got turned on by a friend who has nearly got herself off of cigarettes altogether using a little iLeaf box. But Nancy could only justify, for this experimental attempt at quitting cigarettes, buying one of Samir's fixed-v starter kits.

Nancy is making a valid attempt and I rooted for her, the same as I still have to root for myself, as the tobacco addict I will always be, to succeed, but I am, unfortunately, confident that she is going to need to dig still deeper before she finds the solution to forever-quitting.

I'm fearful Samir is not going to be allowed to help her when she comes back later looking to dial in the hope-inspiring first step she walked out with tonight.


Damnit! I'm having a nice booze-buzz evening with the wife, and I'm buzz-blocking myself, thinking about this .....

I understand.

But I still don't understand how any regulatory agency in this country can be allowed to "regulate" (de facto ban) anything they have not proven to be harmful in any way to anybody.

 

[skoony]

I have said Many Times that much will have to do with how a product is Marketed/Advertised.

Take 3 Spools of the Exact Same Wire...

Easy for the FDA to Regulate with the word "Vapes" on the product.

---

Perhaps not as Easy. But Intended use thru the use of Clouds on product?

---

Almost Impossible for the FDA to Regulate if sold from a Site that has No Association to Tobacco or Vaping.

The FDA expanded advertised use doctrine now includes actual use. If you are selling
a product marketed as not for a specific use and it is being used for that anyway you
had better have a good excuse to explain to the FDA why you didn't know this was
happening. Again I will repeat I do not think the FDA will go down this road but could
if they chose to do so.

Regards
Mike

 

[JustWondering1]

Gutfeld's good, and I'd like to see John Stossel do a report as well. This kind of ridiculous regulatory overreach is right up his alley.

I totally agree! I'm going to record Stossel too. This is a story he is sure to agree with us on!

 

[Sir Kadly]

Lithium batteries nor anything else will be banned however there end use
especially in terms a sale will be regulated. Take a little trip to market
and see what happens when you buy sudafed or anhydrous ammonia.
both these products are legal to buy however their use is regulated.
Regards
Mike
sudafed/sue da Fed
Did you see what I did there?

I respectfully disagree with this statement. Their SALE is regulated, not their USE. There are certain uses that are indeed illegal, but that is a separate matter from the regulations on sales.

 

[Katmar]

Gutfeld's good, and I'd like to see John Stossel do a report as well. This kind of ridiculous regulatory overreach is right up his alley.

Stossel is currently fighting lung cancer. Ironic, eh?

 

[zoiDman]

The FDA expanded advertised use doctrine now includes actual use. If you are selling
a product marketed as not for a specific use and it is being used for that anyway you
had better have a good excuse to explain to the FDA why you didn't know this was
happening. Again I will repeat I do not think the FDA will go down this road but could
if they chose to do so.

Regards
Mike

Mike, the FDA is going to have it Hands Full trying to maintain some assemblance of order with Black Market Nicotine. And people Skirting e-Liquid Sales. Let alone Attempting to try and track down Every Spool of Wire being sold in America and then making a Case for Intended Use.