Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[nicnik]

I am going to lose my mind, the rest of it anyway. Here is the reply my Congressman sent to me:

Thank you for contacting me. As your Congressman, your thoughts and concerns are very important to me. Please know that I have received your message and will respond in a timely manner.
In the meantime, please visit my website - mikebishop.house.gov - where you can find additional information and sign up for my newsletter. You can also follow me on Twitter, as well as my official Facebook Page. These are great resources for keeping up to date on what I'm doing in Washington and the district.
I look forward to serving you and the families of Michigan's 8th District.

Politicians spend half the day dialing for dollars and the other half spamming.

 

[The Ocelot]

Stock up quick, before it's too late. And make sure you bottle them in glass and store in the freezer.

Should I use argon?

 

[Katya]

It just occurred to me that manufacturers will need a separate PMTA for every pg/vg ratio.

Yep. Every ratio, every nic level, every size. If ANYTHING changes from the previous batch, including the color of the bottle cap, new application.

This is just the beginning. If I understand it correctly, they will also have to test how their e-liquids will perform on different devices, different wattages etc.

Just sayin.

 

[nicnik]

Should I use argon?

Well, they say for fills, use argon. For spills, ventilate and use air freshener.

 

[Woofer]

Didn't the FDA actually say something like that? Even slight label change = new product?

I think they did but it is in payola speak, not my native tongue. Perhaps one could argue substantial equivalence.

 

[nicnik]

This is just the beginning. If I understand it correctly, they will also have to test how their e-liquids will perform on different devices, different wattages etc.

Just sayin.

Yes, and a lot more.

 

[The Ocelot]

i dispute that there are any reliable figures about second hand smoke. That's ambulance chasing pure and simple.

There are NO deaths from second hand vape.

There are NO deaths from first hand vape.

You'll be delighted to know i'm working on it. 0.3Ω dual Claptons rasping it to me on a triple battery .... kicking rig. Oh yes, FDA, Daisy May.
So, if you like your vape, and i like my vape...what in the name of Christ is anybody doing interfering with a hobby that's a harmless as a nun's fart?

T

 

[nicnik]

I think they did but it is in payola speak, not my native tongue. Perhaps one could argue substantial equivalence.

They'll respond with substantial deafness and blindness, and they pretty much've said so.

 

[The Ocelot]

This is just the beginning. If I understand it correctly, they will also have to test how their e-liquids will perform on different devices, different wattages etc.

Just sayin.

That's the way I understand it too, I just hadn't thought about pg/vg ratios.

 

[The Ocelot]

They are, that's why there haven't been any new cigarettes on the market since 2009, they even decided that some released after 2007 that has applied for substantial equivalence weren't actually equivalent. That's why Camel Crush disappeared.

The difference is, nothing that was on the market prior to 2007 has to go through the same process.

I thought Camel Crushes were gone, but I saw them in the convenience store the other night when I was buying my comforting wine and ice cream. There was a pretty big display. I was interested because I tried them when they came out. It was the first time I had smoked anything except my regular brand for years - I'm all about novelty.



It took me minutes to find the AP article I linked to some time ago. The story was from 2014 and was about tobacco cigarettes.

"A grandfather clause in the law allows products introduced between February 2007 and March 2011 that are similar to those previously on the market to be sold while under review. They can be removed from store shelves if they don't pass muster with the agency." http://bigstory.ap.org/article/fda-review-tobacco-products-grinds-halt

EDIT: I had to delete a line previously in my post, since it referred to another part of the article.

 

[Katya]

That what I understand to, I just hadn't thought about pg/vg ratios.

I really don't understand how and why OMB/OIRA gave them a green light this time. Those rules are so draconian and unrealistic, and yet nobody objected, like they did the first time around. Those folks are supposed to be apolitical numbers crunchers. So what happened?

 

[nicnik]

Salut!

I don't know about Philip Morris, but RJ Reynolds had the Premier: Premier (cigarette) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And now for something almost different. I hope it cheers you up a little.

Meet Barbara. She uses an Eclipse and is insane.

No one should blame the crazy lady for the product's failure. I think it has more to do with stuff like this:

FDA vs Eclipse

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/02/Apr02/041502/01p-0570_c000001_01_vol2.pdf

Lots of the same issues with the FDA and vaping, today. See the section labeled
"V. EXERCISING JURISDICTION WOULD DETER THE DEVELOPMENT AND MARKETING OF OTHER REDUCED-RISK PRODUCTS."

Abd this, from CFTFK:

Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids

Some things never change...

 

[Lessifer]

I think they did but it is in payola speak, not my native tongue. Perhaps one could argue substantial equivalence.

That's one thing I've never understood, and it was a moot point up until last year, but.. Once something is approved via PMTA, can subsequent revisions apply via SE or does that ONLY apply to pre 2007 products?

 

[Kent C]

"Only those who do not wish for political power can be trusted with it."

I'm pretty sure that is an ultimate truth.

Could be, but it likely hasn't happened in reality - another 'Plato' problem - he didn't believe in reality :- )

 

[Katya]

That's one thing I've never understood, and it was a moot point up until last year, but.. Once something is approved via PMTA, can subsequent revisions apply via SE or does that ONLY apply to pre 2007 products?

I don't see this as being an issue, since nothing will be approved via PMTA, Les.

 

[Lessifer]

I thought Camel Crushes were gone, but I saw them in the convenience store the other night when I was buying my comforting wine and ice cream. There was a pretty big display. I was interested because I tried them when they came out. It was the first time I had smoked anything except my regular brand for years - I'm all about novelty.



It took me minutes to find the AP article I linked to some time ago. The story was from 2014 and was about tobacco cigarettes.

"A grandfather clause in the law allows products introduced between February 2007 and March 2011 that are similar to those previously on the market to be sold while under review. They can be removed from store shelves if they don't pass muster with the agency." http://bigstory.ap.org/article/fda-review-tobacco-products-grinds-halt

I may be mistaken but I believe the SE application was finally rejected last year(4 years after submission) but retailers are allowed to sell current stock.

I smoked them for a while, they were just like regular camels, unless you wanted the menthol, and camel sent out coupons for them almost weekly.

 

[Woofer]

That's one thing I've never understood, and it was a moot point up until last year, but.. Once something is approved via PMTA, can subsequent revisions apply via SE or does that ONLY apply to pre 2007 products?

Good question Les, logic would dictate one should be able to so I am going to so no it must be a pre 2007 product. (Good question, I have no idea.)

 

[The Ocelot]

No one should blame the crazy lady for the product's failure. I think it has more to do with stuff like this:

FDA vs Eclipse

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/02/Apr02/041502/01p-0570_c000001_01_vol2.pdf

Lots of the same issues with the FDA and vaping, today. See the section labeled
"V. EXERCISING JURISDICTION WOULD DETER THE DEVELOPMENT AND MARKETING OF OTHER REDUCED-RISK PRODUCTS."

Abd this, from CFTFK:

Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids

Some things never change...

I'm not sure an Eclipse was all she was smoking.

 

[Katya]

Abd this, from CFTFK:

Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids

Some things never change...

I hate those people. I really, really hate them. They are the worst. Even Glantz admitted, perhaps in a moment of weakness, that e-cigs are less harmful than cigarettes. I heard him myself.

 

[nicnik]

That's one thing I've never understood, and it was a moot point up until last year, but.. Once something is approved via PMTA, can subsequent revisions apply via SE or does that ONLY apply to pre 2007 products?

My understanding, is yes, anything approved, then can be used for substantial equivalence.