I agree, but I also undertand why some feel the association is more net loss than net gain, for us.
Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
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Hey don't forget to add in murdering pets!!!!
There is a new TV commercial by the ANYZ trying to guilt people into quitting smoking because it is giving their pets cancer. Lets turn that one around on em!
I'd say you've got that half right. The public yes, many medical professionals are starting to come around though. "Public health" professionals are a different story, in the US.
I have mentioned in past posts the second hand smoke issues have been laid to rest.Well, compelling until you realize that the grandfather of all second hand smoke studies done by the EPA was cherry picked. I guess they figured if BT could lie about first hand smoke, they could lie about second, and now look at where we are.
More confused then ever. I am aware of the post and the rumors it started.What day did the OBM referWARNING: This is an old post.
White House OMB rejects FDA's draft regs for e-cigs as too restrictive, tells agency to draft/submit a new proposal
refer the deeming regs back to the FDA and when did the FDA re-submit them.
aware - Google Search
Regards
Mike
Sorry, that's all I know. You may want to ask Bill G. And I'm not going to Google it...
Back to work.
I received the following images via Email and then created a .pdf to make it easier to read and pass along to anyone and everyone. It's the very best Compliance Calendar I have seen.
Complete FDA Deeming Regulation Compliance Calendar prepared by VTA (Vapor Technology Association).
Stay Strong! Fight!
Complete FDA Deeming Regulation Compliance Calendar prepared by VTA (Vapor Technology Association).
Stay Strong! Fight!
No need to google I already did and can find nothing.Sorry, that's all I know. You may want to ask Bill G. And I'm not going to Google it...
Back to work.
search terms.
OBM refers deeming regs back to the FDA
results
aware - Google Search
Regards
mike
If the FDA are murderers becaus ekilling vaping will send people back to smoking (the post I quoted in my comment). Then lets turn around the commercially that smoking kills pets to the FDA is murdering pets by forcing people back to smoking.
Get the pet organizations chewing on that one.
This post, as much as I HATE it, is absolutely 100% factual.
I don't think I would change a word of it.
I'm a 20+ year veteran of the firearms industry- actually in the industry, not just an enthusiast. This is not my first rodeo.
If you've never seen it, find a copy of "Thank You for Smoking". You'll probably have to look in the comedy section, but it's actually a documentary.
You, as an activist vaper, are now one of the "Merchants of Death", and it's not an easy or fun team to be on.
The challenge we face, as vapers, is that, because of the timing and our historic inaction, this time is probably our only time. Guns, booze, and tobacco have had centuries to cement themselves into the public consciousness, and one of them even has a constitutional amendment to protect it.
If you think the 20-something, vape shop crew that hosts cloud competitions on the 2nd Sunday of every month, and can't agree on how to pronounce diacetyl are going to be able to get the job done, and turn all this around...well, go ahead and keep posting your righteous indignation.
You've got two years left. Have fun with it.
...
If, on the other hand, you're mature enough to put aside your self-righteousness long enough to give your present situation a hard, honest look, you MIGHT stand a chance.
Cloud chasing, and the vape "lifestyle" need to have NOTHING to do with the conversation. It may be fun, may be your particular hobby, may even be your right, but it will do a collective ....-all to advance the cause.
You can't even count on the legal system to save this for you. As obvious as the injustice may be, our governmental system has been corrupted, and judges no longer interpret law, they bend it to their own view. There is enough "precedent", now, that the actual laws on the books (i.e. The Constituion) are nothing more than speed bumps that have to be considered when choosing which previous rulings to base your "judgement" on. The courts are driven by populist sentiment, and are not going to step in to save you.
The only things you've got going for you are facts (and I say "only" because "facts" are too readily manipulated to suit an agenda), and that the product you're choosing to support MAY actually have the power to save lives.
Use that, and put any other aspects of it that you may personally enjoy away until you've at least won some noteworthy battles.
The general public likes to compartmentalize others into groups, and the opposition knows how to exploit that. All they need is one inarticulate hipster cloud-chasing ..... to speak out on the evening news about how it's his right to blow vapor rings wherever he damned-well pleases, sprinkling a bunch of "um"s and "know wut I'm sayin"s in his 30 second sound byte, and now ALL OF YOU ARE JUST LIKE HIM to the people who's opinions we need to win.
They do it to us in guns, too. Everyone who is pro-gun, and has a moment in the spotlight, has all of their views and actions attributed to all of us, and there's usually not much we can do to distance ourselves from them.
Come here. I'll tell you a secret....
...come closer...
...closer...
George Zimmerman is a giant douche bag.
Sure, he probably was defending himself against a brutal attack, and, had he not shot that kid, probably would have been killed or seriously injured that night. But, in his self-righteous zealotry, he went out looking for that type of situation. He was "innocent" of the charges the special proscutor brought (a special prosecutor had to be used, because populist opinion trumped the DA's legit view that no charges would stick), but he was ultimately guilty of being an ........
Now, I could push that statement to CNN, on company letterhead, co-signed by reps from all the other companies, and George Zimmerman will still remain one of our industry's "poster-boys".
The vaping industry ended up with the cloud-chasing "umm..know wut I'm sayin" crowd, and they're just a liability you have to account for if you want to continue this fight. You have to fight a little bit harder, with the RIGHT tactics, to compensate for them.
I said it before, and it went over like a lead baloon, but you are going to have to toughen up and not get offended whenever someone points out that every single aspect of what we're doing is anything short of awesome.
If you want a chance at success, you need to put away the personal freedoms argument at least until you've won some ground. From here on out, it needs to be entirely about harm-reduction- a mature, articulate, carefully crafted discussion about vaping to get away from tobacco.
You've got to realize, really accept, that you're not trying to win an argument against yourself. Just because a fact resonates with you does not mean that it will mean a thing to the people you're trying to win over.
You can't just present the facts and smugly walk away thinking that you won the debate. You've got to craft the argument in the same manner as was used to beat us thus far - edgy sound bites and emotional platitudes- and win the harm reduction debate. Then, and only then, can you hope for some sympathy when it comes to the personal-freedoms and lifestyle argument.
If you can't put that self-righteousness away long enough to win your first battle, then you've already lost the war.
Honestly?
I don't think we stand a chance, but I'd love to be proven wrong about what this community is capable of.
Listen, Democrats accuse me of being a Republican and Republicans accuse me of being a Democrat. I'm right in the middle and hate them both equally for opposite reasons. I like to call myself a, "radical moderate." But you vapers who are Democrats and hate the Republicans so much you won't admit it's become a partisan issue, well you seriously have your head up your
.
Can I ask what loss we would have? No disrespect, just asking.
Of all the people I've talked to, the only other people who have been "concerned" are cigar smokers, pipe smokers, and hookah smokers. Everyone else has believed "it is for the best." It's seems our best allies are those who also have something to lose.
The general population already believes it is the same or worse as smoking anything and I don't see that association going away within the time we have and if the industry is killed we will never have a chance to change it.
Oh, sorry. I was being a bit dense, there. You're right. They're endangering pets.
I wonder if something like this would help:
1. Put together some paperwork about what really goes into e-juice and how these items are used all the time for human consumption (for example, include that propylene glycol is used in asthma inhalers), and point out that while e-juice CAN be sold with up to 24m or 30mg of nicotine, it is sold in these variations to allow people who want to quit smoking to reduce their nicotine consumption by steps if they choose to, and that e-juice is ALSO SOLD with 0mg of nicotine -- this info can all go on one sheet or less. Include a copy of the study by the Royal College of Physicians. Include a brochure or paper with a link to CASAA and/or this Forum, with an invitation to come and ask any questions they may have, read the many reports of former smokers who have been helped by this technology. Include information that the FDA is out to completely ban this proven life-saving alternative to cigarettes and encourage them to speak out about reversing this ban.
Don't make the paperwork anymore lengthy than it needs to be -- 2 or 3 pieces of paper, possibly designed as a foldable brochure, is plenty. Print out a bunch of copies.
2. Create a simple sidewalk board that says (in neat cap letters) "The Truth About Vaping and e-Cigs", somewhere in height between knees and waist so that passersby can read it.
3. Go and spend a few hours in a small group (2-5 people) standing on parking lot in front of your chosen vape shop (who should be willing to give you permission), and hand out the papers/brochure to people who pass by -- to those who say "not interested", simply reply that "the FDA regulations also affect YOUR freedoms even if you neither smoke nor vape" (because it's a huge government overreach into freedoms of choice).
If your town/city doesn't prohibit it, you could also set up on street corners. I'd advise not blocking sidewalks or vaping huge clouds that could put people off so that they won't even take the handout, don't force them to walk through it.
Maybe in other places where people are allowed to stand around and give brochures out, you could title the brochure "How the FDA is using Your Tax Dollars to Crush Life-Saving Technology and Freedom of Choice".
Anyone can do this from where they are.
1. Put together some paperwork about what really goes into e-juice and how these items are used all the time for human consumption (for example, include that propylene glycol is used in asthma inhalers), and point out that while e-juice CAN be sold with up to 24m or 30mg of nicotine, it is sold in these variations to allow people who want to quit smoking to reduce their nicotine consumption by steps if they choose to, and that e-juice is ALSO SOLD with 0mg of nicotine -- this info can all go on one sheet or less. Include a copy of the study by the Royal College of Physicians. Include a brochure or paper with a link to CASAA and/or this Forum, with an invitation to come and ask any questions they may have, read the many reports of former smokers who have been helped by this technology. Include information that the FDA is out to completely ban this proven life-saving alternative to cigarettes and encourage them to speak out about reversing this ban.
Don't make the paperwork anymore lengthy than it needs to be -- 2 or 3 pieces of paper, possibly designed as a foldable brochure, is plenty. Print out a bunch of copies.
2. Create a simple sidewalk board that says (in neat cap letters) "The Truth About Vaping and e-Cigs", somewhere in height between knees and waist so that passersby can read it.
3. Go and spend a few hours in a small group (2-5 people) standing on parking lot in front of your chosen vape shop (who should be willing to give you permission), and hand out the papers/brochure to people who pass by -- to those who say "not interested", simply reply that "the FDA regulations also affect YOUR freedoms even if you neither smoke nor vape" (because it's a huge government overreach into freedoms of choice).
If your town/city doesn't prohibit it, you could also set up on street corners. I'd advise not blocking sidewalks or vaping huge clouds that could put people off so that they won't even take the handout, don't force them to walk through it.
Maybe in other places where people are allowed to stand around and give brochures out, you could title the brochure "How the FDA is using Your Tax Dollars to Crush Life-Saving Technology and Freedom of Choice".
Anyone can do this from where they are.
Like I said, I agree, but understand the other view. It might be able to be explained better by someone who holds that opinion, but I'll take a crack at it.
"There needs to be a complete separation between smoke and vapor."
Not my view, and now that I tried, I realize, I'm not able to do a good job of explaining the others' views.
I actually agree with you, that we need to get a good public image out there.
I actually don't know what our general public image is, other than vaping is BT version 2.0. Most of the public doesn't even know that cloud competitions exist.
What we need is this, but of vapers:
I think that's not the case. But I used to think it is, and then didn't and then...I can't remember. Basing this on ecf discussions about it, which come up from time to time.
I mentioned in my email to my reps that anyone who supports these regs are signing my death certificate.
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