Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

crxess

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Note: Shouldn't there be a Conflict of interest with the FDA
Mr. Zeller also served as executive vice president of the American Legacy Foundation,
Funneling Millions to Glantz( American Legacy Foundation - Truth Iniative) through Research Funding - UCSF/Center for Tobacco Control Research and Education, to achieve ANTZ Acceptable goals and return them to the FDA for use against Vapor products while continuing to Protect the Very Industry they Profess to Opposing?

:blink:
 

HBcorpse

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I somewhat agree, but that's not mainstream vaping. I have nothing against cloud comps, and honestly, I don't even think Joe and Jane public know that stuff really exists, or care.

The real mainstream vapers are the people who don't even come to ECF, or they do, after 6 months of dealing with batteries that need to charge twice a day.

I don't even know if vaping HAS a public face. Most think vaping is part of BT and that's the problem, IMO.

The thing with movements like Black Lives Matter is, you'll get more support from people who would be likely to support you anyway, but it doesn't change anyone's mind. We need to change minds.

This did not hurt us.............News/Government/Corporate financed Propaganda Running this as if this represented All Vapers is what caused this mentality.

This would equate to All car owners being Maniacs due Drunk Driver incidents.

It was a clearly chosen and targeted strike against a portion of Society once again Deemed unacceptable by some self serving SOB with a God complex. It only takes One, then it Spreads like Cancer.:glare:

We are up against the Best Corporate Strategist in history and the Bottom line is their Bottom line:grr:

Valid points.
But Tuesday, at my best friend's birthday celebration, another friend of his referred to my Provari/Kayfun as a "douche stick"...
There's a joke/meme all over the Internet, showing a man vaping, and an arrow pointing to his vape set up, with the words "mouth fedora"...indicating that not only are fedoras a shameful/embarrassing thing of a hat, but that vaping is like a fedora for your mouth.
My point is, with things like cloud comps and other wild activities, a HUGE sector of the general public considers us to be "douche bags", hipsters, etc.
All because we chose to save our lives by quitting smoking?
 

Lessifer

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Note: Shouldn't there be a Conflict of interest with the FDA

Funneling Millions to Glantz( American Legacy Foundation - Truth Iniative) through Research Funding - UCSF/Center for Tobacco Control Research and Education, to achieve ANTZ Acceptable goals and return them to the FDA for use against Vapor products while continuing to Protect the Very Industry they Profess to Opposing?

:blink:
Where we see conflict of interest and a revolving door, they see... I believe they call it "streamlining"
 

crxess

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Valid points.
But Tuesday, at my best friend's birthday celebration, another friend of his referred to my Provari/Kayfun as a "douche stick"...
There's a joke/meme all over the Internet, showing a man vaping, and an arrow pointing to his vape set up, with the words "mouth fedora"...indicating that not only are fedoras a shameful/embarrassing thing of a hat, but that vaping is like a fedora for your mouth.
My point is, with things like cloud comps and other wild activities, a HUGE sector of the general public considers us to be "douche bags", hipsters, etc.
All because we chose to save our lives by quitting smoking?

Sadly Cliche mentality, Bolster their Ego by insulting someone else preferences in life, have been on the rise the last few decades. One need only respond to such to become a participant and in their eyes confirmation of a Victory:facepalm:

I am who I am and I do as I choose. That is just my Fact of life. :)
 

The Ocelot

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Note: Shouldn't there be a Conflict of interest with the FDA

Funneling Millions to Glantz( American Legacy Foundation - Truth Iniative) through Research Funding - UCSF/Center for Tobacco Control Research and Education, to achieve ANTZ Acceptable goals and return them to the FDA for use against Vapor products while continuing to Protect the Very Industry they Profess to Opposing?

:blink:

Is there anyone in the FDA that doesn't have a conflict of interest? I'm been reading far too much about the agency and its members.
 

Lessifer

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Valid points.
But Tuesday, at my best friend's birthday celebration, another friend of his referred to my Provari/Kayfun as a "douche stick"...
There's a joke/meme all over the Internet, showing a man vaping, and an arrow pointing to his vape set up, with the words "mouth fedora"...indicating that not only are fedoras a shameful/embarrassing thing of a hat, but that vaping is like a fedora for your mouth.
My point is, with things like cloud comps and other wild activities, a HUGE sector of the general public considers us to be "douche bags", hipsters, etc.
All because we chose to save our lives by quitting smoking?
That's true too. There's the whole "we get it, you vape" meme, and all the others. I guess the under 40 crowd have an idea of what vaping is, and yeah, it's not the best idea. My generation, and the one under it, there are a lot of smokers but there isn't a whole lot of visibility of the fact that a lot of us smoke/smoked. If the millenials, or generation X people don't smoke, they have an ingrained disdain for those who do. They also tend to not think hard enough to put two and two together and realize what vaping truly is.
 

The Ocelot

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Sadly Cliche mentality, Bolster their Ego by insulting someone else preferences in life, have been on the rise the last few decades. One need only respond to such to become a participant and in their eyes confirmation of a Victory:facepalm:

I am who I am and I do as I choose. That is just my Fact of life. :)

Come here puppy, have a glucosamine chondroitin yummy snack.
 

crxess

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Come here puppy, have a glucosamine chondroitin yummy snack.

:D

I think the FDA has kept us all up a little to late:ohmy:

In all honesty, I have not been so frustrated over government actions(dating myself) since the whole Vietnam routine:facepalm:
In the last 2 weeks my e-liquid use has almost Doubled and lets just say - I already Vaped to much:glare: Luckily I cut the nic in my latest DIY Mixes.....Hmmm.....maybe there is something to this Vaping being safer business:D
 

frizzy_tyger

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That's true too. There's the whole "we get it, you vape" meme, and all the others. I guess the under 40 crowd have an idea of what vaping is, and yeah, it's not the best idea. My generation, and the one under it, there are a lot of smokers but there isn't a whole lot of visibility of the fact that a lot of us smoke/smoked. If the millenials, or generation X people don't smoke, they have an ingrained disdain for those who do. They also tend to not think hard enough to put two and two together and realize what vaping truly is.

I can't say how things are on a large scale, but being in the under 30 age range, I've had a lot more people my age to mid 30s get vaping than older generations. Most have known someone who vape, so have have some background to go on, whereas most older see the vapor and think smoke. They also feel the need to point out that I have no excuse because by the time I was born we all knew smoking was bad. The save the children people must believe childhood ends sometime older than 25. All of this could be completely different in another locality however so YMMV.
 

skoony

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People always hate me for saying this, but mainstream vaping has helped to essentially murder our collective public image.

With events crazy enough to hold wet T-shirt contests, cloud comps, etc...the cloud crowd has already helped to set the perception of vaping to the general public.

Clouds, exploding batteries, antifreeze, and child killing products. That's what the public thinks of us. So no, they won't care about strangers.

We were outcast as smokers, after 5 decades of studies. We've now been outcast as vapers, after only 5 years of real mainstream use.
The sad part is, vaping is saving our lives, not taking them.
I am beginning to get the impression the entire country is filled
with intolerant vigilantes on the look out for cloud bro's or rude
cloud bro's on the look out for gamma and the babies in the cereal
aisle of the Walmart nearest you. It doesn't work that way here in
Minnesota. Minnesota doesn't have a state wide ban yet. Several
localities have instituted bans including the county I live in.
Prior to the ban here and in places there is not a ban now everyone
got along and still are getting along.
How can this be one might ask? Simple,people in general are not intolerant.
Pre-ban virtually every company and every government(on property they controlled) had already instituted
vaping policies on there own. Curiously the County commissioners slapped themselves
on the back for the fine job the did protecting county residents.It was completely
lost on them that for all intents and purposes the residents of the county had
already addressed the issue. Sooner or later the state will get around to a state
wide ban. This year they seem more intent on getting the tax ball rolling to the
tune of 30% for a start. They too will congratulate themselves for the fine job
they are doing. The dirty little secret is vaping where allowed is tolerated.
Shhh,don't tell anyone.

The perception that vapers in public are creating a negative reaction in the non-
smoking public is our perception of how we think they feel. It has no basis in
reality. When allowed to do so society has,can and,will work these things out
on their own. Vaping bans just as the smoking bans that preceded them were never
about public health despite what one might have been told. They are to control
the perception of the public. Prior to any smoking ban 70% of the non-smoking
public thought the idea was a joke. Though both sides agreed that smoking was
not appropriate in all places,( restaurants come to mind) the thought of the
government instituting blanket public and workplace bans was considered a
waste of government resources and unnecessary as the public (society)
was beginning or already had started working these issues out themselves.
The term "Family Friendly" establishment literally meant smoke free in
the pre-smoke ban days.
It's all about the future 20 years down the road when the next generation
grows up believing that vaping is bad,very very bad. It's always been bad.
Why would anyone in their right mind question that? Does anyone doubt that
20 years from now that e-liquid makers and companies like Joytech and
Provari will be called liars and deceivers and merchants of death as BT
was before them?
:2c:
Regards
Mike
 

Lessifer

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I can't say how things are on a large scale, but being in the under 30 age range, I've had a lot more people my age to mid 30s get vaping than older generations. Most have known someone who vape, so have have some background to go on, whereas most older see the vapor and think smoke. They also feel the need to point out that I have no excuse because by the time I was born we all knew smoking was bad. The save the children people must believe childhood ends sometime older than 25. All of this could be completely different in another locality however so YMMV.
I definitely should have said "it seems like" since I don't really have any experience with the under 30 crowd other than online. I realize meme generator apps and sitcoms are not necessarily good representatives of the population.
 
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bobwho77

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Wisest post on this thread.
[/END]

When they perform a post-mortem on us...
They will find it was Big Media who really did us in...

Not that lots of others aren't to blame.
But yeah, Big Media.

That's the reason I've been hammering the PR angle on this. Without more NONvapers on our side we won't get ANY traction politically
 

WillyZee

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Does anyone doubt that
20 years from now that e-liquid makers and companies like Joytech and
Provari will be called liars and deceivers and merchants of death as BT
was before them?
:2c:
Regards
Mike

I for one, doubt this ... 20 years from now, companies like Joyetech and
ProVape will be known as the pioneer innovators of these life saving devices.

The attempted hijacking of Vaping will be exposed :smokie:
 
Last edited:

Eskie

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That's the reason I've been hammering the PR angle on this. Without more NONvapers on our side we won't get ANY traction politically

Unfortunately, it's hard to see how nonsmoking, nonvaper would suddenly become concerned over regulation. The strongest argument will not be individual choice or rights, but rather long term harm reduction. The more information produced demonstrating far fewer health issues the stronger the position of supporting, rather than undermining vaping will become. Educating the public, and certainly legislators, that vaping is a safer alternative to smoking, and seemingly far more effective than other solutions to date will be more persuasive to limiting availability of choice.

The flip side to that is also educating new vapers how to go about things safely and responsively. Every sensational story about someone blowing a hole in their tongue or setting their jeans on fire can undermine dozens of positive experiences as sensational generates viewers/readers. It may not be fair, but it does seem to be the way society reacts these days.
 

crxess

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I can't say how things are on a large scale, but being in the under 30 age range, I've had a lot more people my age to mid 30s get vaping than older generations. Most have known someone who vape, so have have some background to go on, whereas most older see the vapor and think smoke. They also feel the need to point out that I have no excuse because by the time I was born we all knew smoking was bad. The save the children people must believe childhood ends sometime older than 25. All of this could be completely different in another locality however so YMMV.
:lol::lol::lol:

Not all older generation folks :D

I treated a wide range of people to Vapor school From about 25 to 80yrs :thumb:
 

skoony

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I for one, doubt this ... 20 years from now, companies like Joyetech and
ProVape will be know as the pioneer innovators of these life saving devices.

The attempted hijacking of Vaping will be exposed :smokie:
If the regulations stand as is, if Joytech and Provari are still around
they will have joined the game BT and government have been playing
for almost 30 years. BP will be haled as innovators and pioneers of
these life saving devices which will coincidentally look awfully similar
to what we are using now.
:matrix:
Mike
 

bobwho77

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An Owlcelot? Sorry, couldn't resist.

For the sake of staying on topic though, I'd like to address the crowd. I've read every post in this thread since it started, but said little. And what I'm going to say now is related to what I've already said in the limited number of posts I have made.

I've seen lot's of people talk about how our political system is broken, and several comments about not being able to fix it. My opinion is that it can be fixed at least somewhat, but only if enough people start accepting the idea that candidates might have something besides an R or a D after their name. As soon as there is a 3rd party (the more the better, but for now I'll settle for a third) holding a large enough portion of the power the entire political landscape will change. In my opinion the best thing we can do is push the idea of voting

Maybe, but many of us on the political Left believe in stronger social safety nets, and increased government investment in things like infrastructure, education, and basic scientific research, while still respecting personal freedom.
Some things just SHOULDN'T be privatized (health care, the prison system, and logistical support for the military come immediately to mind)
and others are a public trust to be cared for and maintained so EVERY American can use them (our National Park service, the highway system, the electric grid...)
It seems like it should be possible to have a government that is responsive to the needs of the people, without overstepping in to this "Nanny State" BS.
It might help if our wasn't essentially for sale to the highest bidder
 

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