Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
- Thread starter Oliver
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Basically, they forced the reservations to turn over records for being in violation of the treaties. Under terms of the treaties, the reservations are their own Nations, exempt from the tobacco related taxes as I understand it at both a State and Federal level, but only when selling to tribal members.
Well, theirs are so much better because the design of their delivery device is....
Ummm, and because their nicotine is so much more...
Oh, and also due to the advanced nature of their...
Yeah, I got nothing.
yes...we are read here for sure.
...thinking (dangerous I know...)
How about everyone edits their profile and puts their age visible
also thinking I will have a co-worker take a nice pic of me and use it as an avi
to show I am a REAL PERSON here.
I was ruminating over a lot of the language used in the deeming regs.
Specifically " to be used or reasonably be expected to be used in a finished
tobacco product" and why this makes virtually every component or
substance a tobacco product and thus falls under the FDA's deeming regs.
Basically as if they were no different than your basic Marlboro or Winston.
So far so good. It is legal under Federal law for me to grow as much tobacco
for personal use as I want. I can even sell the leaf with no restrictions as long
as I don't remove the center rib. (state laws may vary) IMHO this also implies
I can make my own filters and papers to make my own cigarettes. With a little
googling one should be able to source materials to suite this need or simply substitute
ready made items from a B&M tobacco store. So there you have it. A little at
home gardening and one needs not ever buy a single cigarette ever again.
So where is the path for e-cigarettes? If we are in fact using tobacco products
now where and what are the tobacco seeds of our hobby? If cigarettes,cigars,chew and
pipe tobaccos have a legal non-taxed or regulated path for personal use, where is
our legal non-taxed or,regulated path for personal use. If there were seeds one
could plant and harvest PG/VG and nicotine we would be in like Flint.
This lack of clarification under the Deeming regs may be the Achilles heel.
The FDA states there basis for regulating e-cigarettes is the FSPTCA.
If this is the case why are they not treating e-cigarettes the same as
cigarettes. Pre-made and assembled finished tobacco products made for
sale to the general public. Where is the distinction between raw materials
(the seed for the tobacco plant) and the raw materials we need to make
juice? If the FDA wants to regulate, fine. They can't regulate tobacco seeds.
They can't regulate the ingredients use to make juice nor the hardware.
Only a finished tobacco product made for sale to the general pubic.
This would mean cigalikes and pre-filled carto's. One can legally advertise
and sell tobacco seeds as what they are,tobacco seeds. What would be the
legal equivalent of our tobacco seed?(some assembly may be required)
Regards
Mike
Specifically " to be used or reasonably be expected to be used in a finished
tobacco product" and why this makes virtually every component or
substance a tobacco product and thus falls under the FDA's deeming regs.
Basically as if they were no different than your basic Marlboro or Winston.
So far so good. It is legal under Federal law for me to grow as much tobacco
for personal use as I want. I can even sell the leaf with no restrictions as long
as I don't remove the center rib. (state laws may vary) IMHO this also implies
I can make my own filters and papers to make my own cigarettes. With a little
googling one should be able to source materials to suite this need or simply substitute
ready made items from a B&M tobacco store. So there you have it. A little at
home gardening and one needs not ever buy a single cigarette ever again.
So where is the path for e-cigarettes? If we are in fact using tobacco products
now where and what are the tobacco seeds of our hobby? If cigarettes,cigars,chew and
pipe tobaccos have a legal non-taxed or regulated path for personal use, where is
our legal non-taxed or,regulated path for personal use. If there were seeds one
could plant and harvest PG/VG and nicotine we would be in like Flint.
This lack of clarification under the Deeming regs may be the Achilles heel.
The FDA states there basis for regulating e-cigarettes is the FSPTCA.
If this is the case why are they not treating e-cigarettes the same as
cigarettes. Pre-made and assembled finished tobacco products made for
sale to the general public. Where is the distinction between raw materials
(the seed for the tobacco plant) and the raw materials we need to make
juice? If the FDA wants to regulate, fine. They can't regulate tobacco seeds.
They can't regulate the ingredients use to make juice nor the hardware.
Only a finished tobacco product made for sale to the general pubic.
This would mean cigalikes and pre-filled carto's. One can legally advertise
and sell tobacco seeds as what they are,tobacco seeds. What would be the
legal equivalent of our tobacco seed?(some assembly may be required)
Regards
Mike
Wish I wasn't. Hurt like hell.........found out real quick, steel and concrete do not give.
Would have laid back down, but I know better.Got over the shock, got to my morning coffee and taking it slowly as I evaluate improvement. I have Bigger concerns than Cracking a Skull..............well, unless it is Zeller or Glantz
, like:What can we as individuals do next to draw attention the the Anti-Constitutional Actions of a Rogue Agency within Federal Government being pressed upon the Free thinking people of the United states.
Recognition and Exposure is needed.
While Protest concern me due to the fact even those with Best intent and Filled with Passion ultimately can make mistakes that reflect negatively upon the overall goal, I still believe they may be a Necessary
Positive Publicity:
Myself and @The Ocelot have contacted Avalon Television - Seeking John Oliver's Help, but we are Two tiny Voices in our ocean of Turmoil.
Any and All additional Support in Writing them would be appreciated.
The Ocelot's Letter is exquisite:
Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
But thousands more from individuals would mean so much
Contact them here if interested in sharing our plight!
Avalon Television
This mission should be a Sticky on its own
*Sorry, Blame the Cat
Maybe I missed something somewhere, but.. What makes you think that BT supports Cole-Bishop?
I figure BT has been working on PMTAs for their products (Vuse, Mark 10, etc) for two years now and that they will be the first to file. I also think the FDA *has* to approve some PMTAs for vapor products, otherwise they'll be seen as banning them, which would be unacceptable to Congress. Furthermore, the FDA won't want to be seen as only approving products made by BT, so a few others like NJOY and JUUL who've likely also been working on PMTAs for a while already also have decent shot at it as well.
Why would these companies support Cole-Bishop, when the regs, as they currently stand, would create a nice small cartel for them?
Altria among others are on the lobby list in favor of it. They are putting up some casH according to opensecrets dot org
Dimitri
Detailed confirmation on Lobbing on the Hill
Did you really think Greg Conley / AVA is the only one?
#smokefreeradio "Legislation, Litigation"
Also - Do you know a better way to Demonize an action against you than to jump in and support it?
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Apologies. Apparently I did miss something. I can only think of one reason for BT to support Cole-Bishop and would be if they think (have been told?) that even their PMTAs won't be approved.Dimitri
Detailed confirmation on Lobbing on the Hill
Did you really think Greg Conley / AVA is the only one?
#smokefreeradio "Legislation, Litigation"
I don't understand.
I can't think of any way it makes sense for Big Tobacco to support Cole-Bishop.
It would allow all the vape shops to stay open.
Unless that battery provision is the key to this whole thing?
Use that to remove all the "dangerous" products off the market?
Another way to allow only closed-system cigalikes?
If I was BT, I wouldn't have any problems "Supporting" something like Cole-Bishop.
Because I would know that throwing BT's Name into the Mix would do More Harm than Good.
Don't they mean Demoralize?
Haven't ANTZ been programmed over Decades to Condemn Smokers as some sort of Social Deviate not to be allow to take part in Society as a whole through their Perverted actions as a Smoker.............Rather than to attack the Product which is the Route cause of their Higher health Risk?
Is it not true, once they found they could not Beat the Producers they went after the Users?
Has this Mad Mob Mentality not Directly shifted to Attacking the Very Solution they seek, through their own Blind Pre-programmed instinct to Attack any disruption to Clear Air?
I am amazed people living in colder climates have not been Publicly Flogged for Exhaling Winters natural Vapor
* Forgot to link
http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/06/economist-explains-11
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This is all I can think of. Or... BT seriously believes the days of combustible tobacco are truly numbered hence the desire to control the entire vaping industry. First step of course is to make sure there's an industry to dominate.
When you think about it... what other market can BT transition to? There's only so much you can do with a tobacco leaf.
Total speculation but my guess is they want the market to more open than as proposed in the regs. In some ways it makes sense. We all know the cigalikes are either gateways to better gear or a fail/return to smoking.
I don't think BT has any plan to capture our share of the market (hobbiest/enthusiest). They probably already have a product that would work for the masses. Something like an evod/twist or something like that. Cig company distribution channel is mostly C store/gas station. Something simple enough but effective for long term use. Easy peasy off the shelf is how most American consumers behave.
BT doesn't need 100% of the market. They just need to carve their big giant slice. And they probably will if Cole Bishop or any other change to the grandfather date happens.
How most of ECF vapes isn't representitive of how the mainstream would vape. Most smokers don't want to tinker, rebuild, fiddle, experiment, or anything like that. They just want to grab and go. BT can grab that market share with ease with a single yet effective product imho. When I got my first evod/twist in 2013 it was good enough to keep me away from cigs no problem.
It seems to me...
There are only two ways that Big Tobacco can dominate the industry...
1) If open system devices are not allowed, or
2) If nicotine base is not allowed
As long as open systems are allowed and nicotine base is available...
Big Tobacco will still wither and die.
I always thought the smart approach would be to limit nicotine strength.
Make it illegal to buy or sell over a certain limit.
The FSPTCA does give them the authority to do this...
Frequently Asked Questions on the Passage of the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act (FSPTCA) Updated October, 2010
I would imagine BT provides the nic for vapors, I would imagine their cut would be substantial.
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