Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

crxess

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This is one aspect thaat i don't see discussed much. I posted this in another thread a few days ago, but i will post it again here :

I just found out that MOV ( Mountain Oak Vapors ) is in the process of reformulating a few of their liquids. As you all know, starting Aug 8, vendors can not legally introduce new liquids into the market or change the formula of what they already have. By February 2017 ( August 2017 for small manufacturers ) they must submit to the fda the list of ingredients in their liquids. Since the ingredients in the TPA blueberry for example is proprietary, the fda has devised a system where the flavor houses can submit their ingredient lists ( i.e. formula ) confidentially into a flavor masterfile, so that they won't have to divulge the formulas to the vendors using them. If a flavor house does not want to do that, the vendor can no longer use that flavor. At that point it's too late for a vendor to reformulate the liquids using those flavors. So MOV will only be using flavors from flavor houses that have committed to give the fda their ingredient listing, and one of their providers explicitly told them they do not want to do that, and will be exiting the vape market. No, i don't know which one :)

Long story short, a lot of the vendors popular in this thread are likely faced with the same dilemma, unless they have no plans to continue doing business past Feb 2017.

had already heard that and it is a Definite concern Vendors need to understand and act on NOW!
I was thinking doing DIY, I'd be fine, though now I am concerned as an exiting Flavor manufacturer may also Drop certain (vaping specific Flavors) in Separation.
Example only - RY4 Asian, RY4D, etc. from TPA
Many of the Flavor manufacturers have developed Vape specific Flavoring.
:yawn:
 

HazyShades

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Liquids probably, hardware, i don't see it. The Chinese will not stop producing mods and tanks, and will likely come out with a bunch of new stuff right before Aug 2016. At that time, i see some of the old stuff coming down in price.
But do you see the Chinese taking advantage of the situation and raise their prices?
From what the lawyer in the interview is saying mods are a tobacco product even if you use one to vape 0 nicotine juice.
 
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HazyShades

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had already heard that and it is a Definite concern Vendors need to understand and act on NOW!
I was thinking doing DIY, I'd be fine, though now I am concerned as an exiting Flavor manufacturer may also Drop certain (vaping specific Flavors) in Separation.
Example only - RY4 Asian, RY4D, etc. from TPA
Many of the Flavor manufacturers have developed Vape specific Flavoring.
:yawn:
my concerns exactly. I don't buy much ready made
but if I can't get flavors...I'll improvise.
 
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Shawn Hoefer

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Wow..Really, listen to that interview...Drip tips..OMG. The components are considered the final tobacco product..I wonder if tobacco pipes are tobacco products.
Yes, pipes are tobacco. Since pipes are made out of clay or wood, mud and trees are tobacco IF the intent is to use them in making a pipe, for which you must have a manufacturer's license.

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Mazinny

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But do you see the Chinese taking advantage of the situation and raise their prices?
From what the lawyer in the interview mods are a tobacco product even if you use one to vape 0 nicotine juice.
That would be one hell of a conspiracy. "Chinese" are not one company. There are hundreds of manufacturers, small and large. Really difficult to coordinate.
 

HazyShades

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On the contrary. A injunction would virtually guarantee a win for the plaintiff(s) at the district court level. But I can't tell if you're trying to be sarcastic. If so, please say so.I'd like to think I can easily hold my own in that king of an exchange.
No, not being sarcastic. Listen to the bigshot lawyer FDA expert.
It might not be the correct course according to him.
I of course differ in opinion but-------> <sarcasm> whatta I know. <end sarcasm>
The different courts differ in their predisposition, what works in Miss might not work in FL or on a federal level
 

HazyShades

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Yes, pipes are tobacco. Since pipes are made out of clay or wood, mud and trees are tobacco IF the intent is to use them in making a pipe, for which you must have a manufacturer's license.

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I just love sarcasm. This pet rock is a tobacco product.
 

crxess

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Flavourart has a huge advantage over other flavor houses. They started their toxicity testing years ago, and have completed the testing on most of their flavors.

Yet if they want to Sell ready to use in the US, they will still be required to undergo PMTA on each item/sku however I see them doing well in other markets.
 

bigdancehawk

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I'm having a very hard time figuring what rationale they used to
classify as a tobacco product. Nicotine is not necessarily derived from tobacco.
All nicotine now on the market is derived from tobacco, and that will continue to be the case for the foreseeable future. Anything derived from tobacco is defined as a tobacco product by federal law.
 

Mazinny

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Yet if they want to Sell ready to use in the US, they will still be required to undergo PMTA on each item/sku however I see them doing well in other markets.
Presumably, they've already done a lot of the testing needed for the PMTA. Although they did it anticipating EU regulations, i would think it would apply to PMTA as well. Although the FDA could just say " sorry not good enough ! "
 
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HazyShades

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That would be one hell of a conspiracy. "Chinese" are not one company. There are hundreds of manufacturers, small and large. Really difficult to coordinate.
The Chinese march as one.
I understand, I'm familiar with the gangs in Shenzhen..got telly calls from lots of cute sounding Chinese sales people back when we were considering getting into the biz.
But they really all are ultimately under the authority of the State Council
and I don't put anything past them...but I'm getting paranoid.
The interview is over..That was fun. Thanks
 

Shawn Hoefer

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I just love sarcasm. This pet rock is a tobacco product.
There was no sarcasm.

Cotton is cotton until it is used in an atomizer. My shirt is cotton. If I choose to remove threads from my shirt for use in an aromizer, by the letter of the regs, my shirt is a tobacco product.

The FDA is attempting to measure intent. Impossible...

We are farmers/ranchers. As such, we often have USP PG around as a treatment for bloat. We get it at the livestock supply. It's animal medicine UNLESS I INTEND to use it in e-liquid.

Additionally, I can use it in 0 nic e-liquid as long as I never put the liquid in an atomizer. Once I put the 0 nic in an atomizer it is tobacco.

It wasn't before...

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bigdancehawk

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Tell that to my ex father in law.
Corrupt. Every last one of them..most lawyers too.
I'm trying not to overdo it. The whole judiciary is corrupt.
Wow, your ex father in law? Excuse me! I'm now compelled to defer to the leading authority on modern American jurisprudence.
 
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Shawn Hoefer

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Yet if they want to Sell ready to use in the US, they will still be required to undergo PMTA on each item/sku however I see them doing well in other markets.
One company is using synthesized nic. NKTR, I think.

However, if you intend...

Never mind...

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HazyShades

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There was no sarcasm.

Cotton is cotton until it is used in an atomizer. My shirt is cotton. If I choose to remove threads from my shirt for use in an aromizer, by the letter of the regs, my shirt is a tobacco product.

The FDA is attempting to measure intent. Impossible...

We are farmers/ranchers. As such, we often have USP PG around as a treatment for bloat. We get it at the livestock supply. It's animal medicine UNLESS I INTEND to use it in e-liquid.

Additionally, I can use it in 0 nic e-liquid as long as I never put the liquid in an atomizer. Once I put the 0 nic in an atomizer it is tobacco.

It wasn't before...

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Yea Shawn, I know.. I read the thing several times and it was even interpreted for me by a bigshot lawyer.
Hey, I shop at a feedstore...never thought of buying VG there..you said PG

do they carry VG? I need to feed my pet rock :lol:
 

HazyShades

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One company is using synthesized nic. NKTR, I think.

However, if you intend...

Never mind...

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Synthetic nicotine was mentioned in that interview..it's on iffy ground now.
'Twas my first thought. How are they going to swing that one?
Synthetic nic is NOT a tobacco product
 

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