Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Lessifer]

Yes. The 'accept' or 'reject' is by that same subjective judgement. I saw no 'standards' but they are implied in the questions that are being asked in the applications. :- ) Esp. in the ones that force you to 'prove a negative'. Another reason why I have said that even the tobacco company's applications aren't guaranteed.

Like the MRTP application. I was reading through the transcript of the conference where they discussed the Swedish match application. To paraphrase "wow, over 100,000 pages and decades of research. Really good job. Unfortunately it's not quite what we're looking for, but it's been a great experience. We feel like we're closer to knowing what we want. We hope you keep trying so that maybe sometime we'll be able to figure out what we're looking for."

 

[The Ocelot]

Thanks for answering. I'm trying to get a handle on this. For all of the tests required, it doesn't seem like 2 years is long enough.

I just remembered where my thoughts on the tests came from.

"Answering these questions will require a huge research undertaking lasting several years and costing millions of dollars. I don't even think that existing NIH research - in its totality - will be able to answer all of the above questions for a single product within two years." -- Dr. Michael Siegel

He's breakdown of the tests: The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary: FDA Draft Guidance Confirms that Deeming Regulations Will Decimate the E-Cigarette Industry

 

[Lessifer]

I just remembered where my thoughts on the tests came from.

"Answering these questions will require a huge research undertaking lasting several years and costing millions of dollars. I don't even think that existing NIH research - in its totality - will be able to answer all of the above questions for a single product within two years." -- Dr. Michael Siegel

He's breakdown of the tests: The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary: FDA Draft Guidance Confirms that Deeming Regulations Will Decimate the E-Cigarette Industry

I agree with his assessment of how impossible the regulations are. It is kind of interesting though that he seems to think that all of this is new and unique to vaping. These regulations are nearly identical to the cigarette regulations, and he seems to have no problem with those even though they too do not allow for product innovation. Perhaps the reason why we don't have a safer cigarette today, is that the tobacco companies knew it would be impossible to bring one to market?

 

[salemgold]

Maybe we all need to start writing letters to this guy?
Centers for Disease Control Tom Frieden dismisses helping Americans switch with e-cigs

Dr. Frieden is making a conscious choice to keep Americans uninformed about the benefits of e-cigarettes, and that irrational decision will keep people smoking. Real smoking rates will more than likely level off now that the regulations set by the Food and Drug Administration are about to go into place. Then, once e-cigarettes are classified as "tobacco," tobacco "use" in America will skyrocket by design.

If the phone lines are down in Washington, could someone turn them back on before it's too late? It's that important.

 

[Katya]

These regulations are nearly identical to the cigarette regulations, and he seems to have no problem with those even though they too do not allow for product innovation.

The good doctor is no friend of traditional cigarettes. He is one of the original founding ANTZ.

But he's pro-vaping, and that's all that matters, right?

 

[ENAUD]

I came across this last night:

Child Nicotine Poisoning Prevention Act of 2015
https://www.congress.gov/114/plaws/publ116/PLAW-114publ116.pdf

(B) EXCLUSION.—
The term ‘‘liquid nicotine container’’ does not include a sealed, pre-filled, and disposable container of nicotine in a solution or other form in which such container is inserted directly into an electronic cigarette, electronic nicotine delivery system, or other similar product...

Another score for BT.

Their next step will be...wait for it.....you may have already seen where I'm going with this....




criminalize it! Yup, They'll get them DIY'ers, they don't want to just regulate vaping, they wand to crush it into oblivion with their stomp booted troopers. well... not really all that funny when ya'really think about it.

 

[salemgold]

One more article of interest before I bid you all a good night.
Hot Air: Democrats Work With Big Tobacco and Big Pharma to Choke the Vaping Industry

Hot Air: Democrats Work With Big Tobacco and Big Pharma to Choke the Vaping Industry

 

[lauragal]

This might help...

E-Liquid Recipes

...enjoy. You're welcome.

Thank you!!

 

[lauragal]

ZeroedIn said: ↑
This might help...

E-Liquid Recipes

...enjoy. You're welcome.

@ZeroedIn - the link is broken

 

[Lessifer]

The good doctor is no friend of traditional cigarettes. He is one of the original founding ANTZ.

But he's pro-vaping, and that's all that matters, right?

I do appreciate that he is pro-vaping, and I'm not really calling him out on his part of why we're here today.

It might be nice though to have one of the original ANTZ say "we were wrong, we went way too far, we need to change this." That's almost what he's saying, but not quite.

 

[The Ocelot]

The good doctor is no friend of traditional cigarettes. He is one of the original founding ANTZ.

But he's pro-vaping, and that's all that matters, right?

u haz beated me. It's his history that gets him flamed sometimes in comments. However, I think the change in attitude gives him credibility.

 

[Katya]

It might be nice though to have one of the original ANTZ say "we were wrong, we went way too far, we need to change this." That's almost what he's saying, but not quite.

Don't hold your breath...

 

[Katya]

u haz beated me. It's his history that gets him flamed sometimes in comments. However, I think the change in attitude gives him credibility.

Oh, absolutely. I was just responding to Les', perhaps rhetorical, question. Dr. Siegel has seen the light and is now one of our strongest allies. Wish there were more people like him.

 

[Mazinny]

I agree with his assessment of how impossible the regulations are. It is kind of interesting though that he seems to think that all of this is new and unique to vaping. These regulations are nearly identical to the cigarette regulations, and he seems to have no problem with those even though they too do not allow for product innovation. Perhaps the reason why we don't have a safer cigarette today, is that the tobacco companies knew it would be impossible to bring one to market?

I wouldn't say impossible. Two billion dollars might do it ( maybe a slight exaggeration, that's the total they have spent for smoking alternatives so far ). Philip Morris plans to submit an application for iQOS to be marketed as a " modified risk tobacco product ". They have 300 scientists working on the testing needed for the application.

Marlboro Kicks Some Ash

 

[nicnik]

Their next step will be...wait for it.....you may have already seen where I'm going with this....




criminalize it!

Possession of vaping gear and liquids, is already a misdemeaner, in some localities in the US, for adults 18, 19 and 20 years old .

 

[Lessifer]

u haz beated me. It's his history that gets him flamed sometimes in comments. However, I think the change in attitude gives him credibility.

Like I said, I appreciate what he does for the pro-vaping movement. I also recognize how it can seem hypocritical.

As I've said before, I don't know if the FDA really had a choice in how to regulate vaping as a tobacco product, once they decided that it would be regulated as a tobacco product. The how was written into the FSPTCA.

 

[Katya]

I wouldn't say impossible. Two billion dollars might do it ( maybe a slight exaggeration, that's the total they have spent for smoking alternatives so far ). Philip Morris plans to submit an application for iQOS to be marketed as a " modified risk tobacco product ". They have 300 scientists working on the testing needed for the application.

Marlboro Kicks Some Ash

"...a smoker inserts a tube of tobacco that looks like half a cigarette into a device about the size of a fat ballpoint pen. The tobacco is skewered on a metal blade that heats it to about 500F, a third the temperature of a burning cigarette, providing a dozen or so puffs. ... Analysts say it could be more successful because it gives a better nicotine buzz than an e-cigarette and imitates the ritual of smoking."

Hmmm..........

 

[Lessifer]

I wouldn't say impossible. Two billion dollars might do it ( maybe a slight exaggeration, that's the total they have spent for smoking alternatives so far ). Philip Morris plans to submit an application for iQOS to be marketed as a " modified risk tobacco product ". They have 300 scientists working on the testing needed for the application.

Marlboro Kicks Some Ash

I'll believe it when I see it. That also doesn't address the fact that such a strict and nebulous process does nothing to benefit public health.

 

[Katya]

I'll believe it when I see it. That also doesn't address the fact that such a strict and nebulous process does nothing to benefit public health.

I don't know. There's no combustion and you get your WTAs. Not so much different from snus, if they use highly purified tobacco without tobacco-specific nitrosamines.

I don't think it would replace vaping, but might be helpful for those of us for whom nicotine alone isn't quite enough.

Just musing.

 

[Mazinny]

I don't know. There's no combustion and you get your WTAs. Not so much different from snus, if they use highly purified tobacco without tobacco-specific nitrosamines.

I don't think it would replace vaping, but might be helpful for those of us for whom nicotine alone isn't quite enough.

Just musing.

I agree, as a betting man i would wager that iQOS is safer than smoking by a great margin, but i think what Less means is that the " strict and nebulous process " itself, doesn't benefit public health, not that iQOS use instead of smoking, doesn't benefit public health. At least that's why i liked his post