Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Eskie]

Had an interesting conversation with my daughter about this. She's 21 and in college, and amazingly supportive of my vaping to stop smoking. She's giving me a Merlin tank for Father's day.

I described to her in rough terms what the deeming rules were that passed. I literally gave her an objective "this is what will happen under regulations" without a spin (honest). She thought a minute or so and told me "So it's the lobbyists and tobacco companies again. I hate this government." And while I'm happy she could analyze the situation so quickly, and IMO, correctly, it was sad to hear her comments about her own government. But that's what things are coming to, and extends beyond just this issue.

I certainly recall my own criticisms of the government when I was that age and my "progressive" attitudes at the time, but I really feel it is worse for this next generation, and that's not the world I hoped to leave them with.

 

[DC2]

I don't believe it helps our cause to constantly talk about this giant conspiracy between BT, BP, the government and big media. Not only for the reason you mentioned, but also because it's not true imo.

I guess it depends on your definition of conspiracy.

There are many different players with different agendas, that sometime align and sometimes diverge.

And when they align, and the work together, I'd call that a conspiracy.

 

[r055co]

The govt has a basic goal.. keep as many smokers smoking paying high sin taxes in hopes they die before 60. eventually they will kill off survivor SS,, and once your dead you will no longer be a burden to them. they will 'take your best years' and gladly bury you when its time for them to pay out.

Nailed it on the head!

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[retired1]

I'm pretty sure there are no currently approved nicotine-based pesticides any more...
https://archive.epa.gov/pesticides/reregistration/web/pdf/nicotine_red.pdf

You'd be surprised at what products contain Neonicotinoids. Advantage (yes, that stuff you use on your pets) contains Imidacloprid, which is a neonicotinoid class.

Intercept is another product that contains neonicotinoids.

Imidacloprid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[crxess]

But aren’t e-cigarettes safer than regular cigarettes? And what about the burden on small businesses?
The FDA recognizes that some tobacco products have the potential to be less harmful than others. But more evidence is needed. The agency is exploring this issue with respect to tobacco regulation.
Is this an Admission they are Full of it?


The FDA believes that this new technology has both potential benefits and risks. If certain products, such as e-cigarettes, have reduced toxicity compared to conventional cigarettes; encourage current smokers to switch completely; and/or are not widely used by youth,Stop Here! The Evidence is Respectfully available and Accurate. The Age Restriction answers (Legal) Teen usage they may have the potential to reduce disease and death.<Again with the Admission! But if any product prompts young people to become addicted to nicotine, Nicotine without Tobacco has Never been Documented to cause an Addiction OR Dependency reduces a person’s interest in quitting cigarettes, Seriously Who, in their right mind would Smoke if Nicotine was all they were interested in?and/or leads to long-term usage with other tobacco products, the public health impact could be negative.Speaking to Recreational Hooka or Vaping - Harm Reduction - The time table is none of their business.

Patches come in 3 Strengths, Gums in 1-2 Strengths ,etc., etc. With Vapor Products we can carefully control exactly what is needed to Ween down or off - If Desired.

 

[retired1]

Wells Fargo Securities recently announced that the electronic vaporizer market is now an estimated $2.5 billion, and continuously growing. Of the total, and for the first time ever, at least reported, open system vaporizers contribute more than $1.5 billion to the overall market in the U.S., while e-cigs account for $1 billion.

Read more http://guidetovaping.com/2014/10/24/open-system-vaporizers-are-taking-over/

That was Oct. 2014


https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/2013I1/Downloads/CommitteeMeetingDocument/40681

Bonnie Herzog estimates for 2015..... basically 60% of the market is VTMs (vapor tank mods - ie open systems).

Unfortunately, this applies just to the US market. Worldwide, I would hazard a guess the totals are much different.

 

[Vandal]

Neonicotinoids are thought to be killing bees and other pollinators by the millions, along with other wildlife. No more bees, no more food. But they are only chemically similar to nicotine, right?

 

[Max-83]

Worldwide, I would hazard a guess the totals are much different.

Why? Just curious.

 

[Mazinny]

I guess it depends on your definition of conspiracy.

And when they align, and the work together, I'd call that a conspiracy.

I'll go with the Webster definition :

a secret plan made by two or more people to do something that is harmful or illegal

What's your definition ?

I don't see two groups working together on a specific issue, conspiring, by definition.

 

[Woofer]

You'd be surprised at what products contain Neonicotinoids.

Yes but neonicotinoids are not nicotine, similar but not the same.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I'm pretty sure there are no currently approved nicotine-based pesticides any more...
https://archive.epa.gov/pesticides/reregistration/web/pdf/nicotine_red.pdf

Not true. Found some on do-you-own pest control, or something like that. It has been reformulated and is not what is used in human consumption. products with nicotine - Do It Yourself Pest Control
Here is what I found on google.

Nicotine — Botanical insecticide. Pure nicotine is a tobacco extract highly toxic to warm-blooded animals. The insecticide usually is marketed as a 40% liquid concentrate of nicotine sulfate, which is diluted in water and applied as a spray. Dusts can irritate the skin and are not normally available for garden use. Nicotine is used primarily for piercing sucking-insects such as aphids, whitefiles, leaf hoppers and thrips. Nicotine is more effective when applied during warm weather. It degrades quickly, so can be used on many food plants nearing harvest. It is registered for use on a wide range of vegetable and fruit crops.

 

[Kent C]

And when they align, and the work together, I'd call that a conspiracy.

I'd agree with that. The other thing is their education, usually a liberal education. They are "aligned" but not necessarily "working together" - ie collaborating in the sense of a conspiracy with direct contact. It's "indirect contact" via their education/world view. Same for the Right and Libertarians as well.

However, Rush Limbaugh puts together what he calls "media montages" where reporters are using almost the same words and definitely 'key words' on every station. One of the first, I recall, was the use of "gravitas" in referring to Dick Cheney when he was picked as VP for GWB. Which of course was a slap at GWB. :- )

As Rush Limbaugh Routinely Demonstrates: The Media’s Lockstep Leftist Talking Points | RedState

"There are no violations of national security here. What is all this?" Well, lo and behold, we have the beginnings... Remember the gravitas media montage when Bush chose Cheney? We have the beginnings of another media word that they are all starting to use to describe the Hillary e-mail scandal.

CHRISTINE ROMANS: Most of the 7,000 e-mails are mundane.
JOHN KING: You do see a lot of the mundane business of government.
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON: The kind of mundane machinations of working at the State Department.
MARTHA RADDATZ: (voiceover) Many of the other e-mails more mundane...
NANCY CORDES: Run the gamut from the sensitive to the stressful to the mundane."

And of course their viewers will or may continue the parroting.

It's rather comical and sad, that they do this, and it certainly looks like a collaboration, but it may be just a parrroting from the NY Times or WaPo. Since those are their 'bibles'.

 

[retired1]

Yes but neonicotinoids are not nicotine, similar but not the same.

Only in that they're man made and not naturally derived. They're still considered a neuro-active insecticide chemically similar to nicotine.

 

[Kent C]

Unfortunately, this applies just to the US market. Worldwide, I would hazard a guess the totals are much different.

Found this:

"OPEN SYSTEMS"

E-cigarettes came onto the market a decade ago promising a safer nicotine fix. The devices heat nicotine-laced liquid to create an inhalable vapor, rather than burn tobacco. That gives smokers the traditional hand-to-mouth ritual without the deadly smoke.

The global vaping market, which could top $7 billion this year, is evenly split between cigarette look-alikes, often sold by tobacco companies, and refillable "vapors, tanks and mods" - devices which users modify to suit their needs. These are often made by smaller firms. Demand for them is growing three times as fast as the overall market, as users say they find them more satisfying than early all-in-one models."

Special Report: When it comes to e-cigs, Big Tobacco is concerned for your health

 

[YoursTruli]

So at the end what will happen to the companies that sale pure nicotine? ( not ejuice ) will they go back to being a pesticide?

I would hope not, it's been banned as a pesticide in a number of countries with good reason, it has been directly linked to honey bee colony collapse.

 

[Kent C]

I would hope not, it's been banned as a pesticide in a number of countries with good reason, it has been directly linked to honey bee colony collapse.

Another view:

The New Bee Crisis Is Just Like The Old One: Phony

The science supporting a ban was questionable, to say the least. Poorly designed experiments that overdosed bees in the lab [where have we seen that before?? ]were contradicted by large-scale field studies that confirmed real-world experience–honeybees actually thrive in neonic-treated crops. But those lab studies were enough for the regulators in Brussels, who ignored their own scientists and the loud objections of the British, among others, and passed an EU-wide ban which started at the end of 2013.

 

[BreSha6869]

Why? Just curious.

In Canada for example, pharmacies, variety stores and gas stations can only sell 0% NIC cigalikes. There are really no Blu, Vuse and Mark 10 comparable products available here. Actually, no bottles of juice at these locations either.

If you want to buy ejuice or any electronic vaping device, you have to head to a vape shop (B&M) or order online. No other options.

So cigalike usage in Canada is effectively zero. I use a Vuse from time to time, but I brought it back from a recent Colorado trip. I get more strange looks from that than my Sonw Wolf or Provaris.

 

[BreSha6869]

Dupe.

Why is this site sooooo slow over the last week or so?

 

[Woofer]

Only in that they're man made and not naturally derived. They're still considered a neuro-active insecticide chemically similar to nicotine.

Indeed as I said "neonicotinoids are not nicotine, similar but not the same."
Propylene glycol and ethylene glycol are chemically similar
Carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide are similar.

Nicotine is not used in pesticides anymore. I believe DC2 is correct that there are no approved nicotine based insecticides in the USA.

Some hold hope that in a worse case scenario nic from pesticide could be used.

honey bee colony collapse

Scientists have long been concerned that pesticides, including possibly some fungicides, may have sublethal effects on bees, not killing them outright, but instead impairing their development and behavior. Of special interest is the class of insecticides called neonicotinoids, which contain the active ingredient imidacloprid, and other similar chemicals, such asclothianidin and thiamethoxam.

Not to put too fine a point on it but neonicotinoids are the concern, not nicotine.

Not true. Found some on do-you-own pest control, or something like that. It has been reformulated and is not what is used in human consumption. products with nicotine - Do It Yourself Pest Control

Yeah true, I checked a few of these and they contained Imidacloprid which is a neonicotinoid, not nicotine.

 

[Bronze]

Had an interesting conversation with my daughter about this. She's 21 and in college, and amazingly supportive of my vaping to stop smoking. She's giving me a Merlin tank for Father's day.

I described to her in rough terms what the deeming rules were that passed. I literally gave her an objective "this is what will happen under regulations" without a spin (honest). She thought a minute or so and told me "So it's the lobbyists and tobacco companies again. I hate this government." And while I'm happy she could analyze the situation so quickly, and IMO, correctly, it was sad to hear her comments about her own government. But that's what things are coming to, and extends beyond just this issue.

I certainly recall my own criticisms of the government when I was that age and my "progressive" attitudes at the time, but I really feel it is worse for this next generation, and that's not the world I hoped to leave them with.

I post this one a lot because it is THEE problem. And I can give 19.2 trillion examples. And every example is left for our youth.