Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[seminolewind]

Nicopure's briefs are first class, IMO. Have you read them? What is the basis for your criticism?

Yes I did read it. I would have expected it to be more detailed and provide more documentation about studies that have been done in the last 10 years, IMO. I guess I hate reading anything where I feel that a lot of good points were not included, IMO. I am not saying they did a bad job, I just thought it could have had a stronger argument, IMO. Because I don't think the FDA is aware of much of the knowledge we have attained over the last 10 years.

A few years ago, Consumer Reports did an article on vaping. The whole thing was a bunch of heresay they were passing off as gospel , and being Consumer Reports, people think they spend months doing research and testing to come up with these conclusions that were not even true. I wrote a letter to the editor and was sent a "Thankyou" note and nothing more.
I don't subscribe to them anymore.

If the FDA was basing their decisions on the TRuth, and were not BIased, their conclusions would be different. We all know this. And they are never going to admit that they don't have all the facts, or have erroneous data, or are biased towards BT.

In court with the FDA, instead of playing defense, there could have been more offense, like questioning how they got their data, and found ways of chipping away at their so called "facts". Their numbers aren't even correct about what percentage of vapers have quit smoking with vaping-long term. As if it's not been proven that vaping is a smoking cessation device. It has been. Duh!

 

[Verb]

Yes I did read it. I would have expected it to be more detailed and provide more documentation about studies that have been done in the last 10 years, IMO. I guess I hate reading anything where I feel that a lot of good points were not included, IMO. I am not saying they did a bad job, I just thought it could have had a stronger argument, IMO. Because I don't think the FDA is aware of much of the knowledge we have attained over the last 10 years.

A few years ago, Consumer Reports did an article on vaping. The whole thing was a bunch of heresay they were passing off as gospel , and being Consumer Reports, people think they spend months doing research and testing to come up with these conclusions that were not even true. I wrote a letter to the editor and was sent a "Thankyou" note and nothing more.
I don't subscribe to them anymore.

If the FDA was basing their decisions on the TRuth, and were not BIased, their conclusions would be different. We all know this. And they are never going to admit that they don't have all the facts, or have erroneous data, or are biased towards BT.

In court with the FDA, instead of playing defense, there could have been more offense, like questioning how they got their data, and found ways of chipping away at their so called "facts". Their numbers aren't even correct about what percentage of vapers have quit smoking with vaping-long term. As if it's not been proven that vaping is a smoking cessation device. It has been. Duh!

If the FDA did not know about a piece of info or research when they made the deeming, the information can not be presented in the nicopure case.

 

[seminolewind]

Arrogant is exactly right. And vindictive. Ever since they were told they couldn't regulate e-cigarettes as drug delivery devices they've been planning a strategy which will allow them to do exactly what they wanted to do all along: regulate e-cigarettes as drug delivery devices. That's essentially what the deeming does, completely ignoring the fact that they are recreational devices and aren't used or intended for the treatment of illness or disease.

I was wondering if deeming vaping products as drug delivery devices, if it would be even worse. Recreational device is what it is.

 

[seminolewind]

If the FDA did not know about a piece of info or research when they made the deeming, the information can not be presented in the nicopure case.

And why is that?

 

[Buckeyevapen]

And why is that?

The judge set that rule of engagement. I am not sure if it was her call or if is SOP for this type of case.

 

[seminolewind]

I think we are being treated worse then smokers...especially here in Indiana. Worry about the states that's where the hammer is truly coming down..FDA has nothing on what the states are doing to vapers.

I have heard about Indiana and a vape supplier that moved their business to Ohio because of it.

 

[seminolewind]

The judge set that rule of engagement. I am not sure if it was her call or if is SOP for this type of case.

'
Well, that makes it seem that we lose before the hearing starts. Everything is so corrupt.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

'
Well, that makes it seem that we lose before the hearing starts. Everything is so corrupt.

How do you figure that?

 

[r055co]

i just finished reading that article. Every one should read it because if anyone is still under the illusion that there is no corruption in government this article will open their eyes.

This part made me want to scream: "
In order to understand why state governments have been so keen on passing increasingly strict restrictions on the vapor industry, you’ll have to take a trip down memory lane to November 1998, the year that the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement was enacted.

This agreement was sold as being a a major blow against Big Tobacco, but in reality did nothing more than make the tobacco industry even more powerful than anyone could have ever imagined. The agreement included yearly payments in perpetuity from Big Tobacco to 46 different states, in part based upon how much money the companies made from sales. This led to states securitizing the payments in the form of bonds sold to Wall Street, allowing them to spend the Big Tobacco money BEFORE they actually receive it.

The unexpected rise in vaping has directly hurt the profits of the tobacco industry, and thus is indirectly depriving state governments of a revenue stream that they have become dependent upon.

Basically, the less cigarettes that Big Tobacco sells, the less money that the state governments receive. For more information on the TMSA, be sure to check out the Truth About Vaping videoon this very topic. It’ll open your eyes to the true extent of the corruption in the state governments."

It's tragic that our elected officials who are already rich, only worry about putting more money in their pockets instead of supporting means to help citizens, especially when it could be a matter of life or death as in the vaping battle.

This whole Thing is F Stupid. And you are Right. It has Nothing to do with Public Health.

Hopefully those B&M places can find some method of selling on line. Ebay sellers have always gotten away with a lot not using certain words and using particular words that make it harder to distinguish what they are selling.

You can buy tobacco stuffing machines on Amazon. All different types.
You can find many vaping products on Amazon.
There is a supplier who sells very low cost liquid made in China that we all know and love in big bottles. H00$ier.

I think we are being treated worse then smokers...especially here in Indiana. Worry about the states that's where the hammer is truly coming down..FDA has nothing on what the states are doing to vapers.

Here's my thoughts and opinion on this and what I have been consistently preaching.

We "former" Smokers are going to get screwed no matter what, even if we are victorious with some wins with the law suits. The bills going through Congress, nothing much will come out of this. Vaping has changed (and not for the good) and will never ever be the same again. Our Corporate controlled Oligarchy of a Government will not allow it to prosper, too much of a threat to their masters cash flow and control. Their goal is to force us back to Tobacco, they make money on the Sick and Dying, LOTS of money. For the general public any Vape products they allow will be heavily regulated, restricted and taxed. Think Blu ecig style garbage.

Vaping is going underground and Black Market but it will not go away. The regulated devices will eventually die and will be very expensive and hard to get. Mechs are fairly easy to make, easy to maintain (hell the first Mod's were Modified Flash lights) and quality Mech's will last forever. This is why I did my homework and jumped head first into the Mech world, irony is that I actually really enjoy the hell out of Mech's to be honest. Juice will be made from over the counter items, Nicotine though will dry up and be heavily restricted, regulated and taxed, this is the weak link. People need to have a good supply of 100mg Nic in PG base sitting in their freezers.

Don't stress, prepare and HAMMER YOUR GOVERNMENT REPRESENTATIVES weekly. Tell them you will actively work to remove from office any Representatives who support the FDA and Government actions against Vaping. I may be very cynical about the outcome but I absolutely will not roll over and go quietly.

Hope for the best but definitely prepare for the worst.

I WILL NOT ALLOW GOVERNMENT TO FORCE ME BACK TO TOBACCO PERIOD!

 

[seminolewind]

Nicopure's briefs are first class, IMO. Have you read them? What is the basis for your criticism?

This part includes all of what I felt was missing from the briefs. This is a very strong argument from Nicopure and the other plaintiff. This is just a wonderful reply to the FDA!

Hardball: The Vapor Industry's Legal Response to the FDA - Vaping360

 

[phephner]

OOPS! Double post

 

[phephner]

...I think nicopure did a poor job with their suit.

This part includes all of what I felt was missing from the briefs....This is just a wonderful reply to the FDA!
Hardball: The Vapor Industry's Legal Response to the FDA - Vaping360

With all due respect, do you understand the Vaping360 article is a synopsis/breakdown of the document you earlier thought was insufficient?

 

[Bea-FL]

removed by me - redundant

 

[herb]

Theoretically if it displaces tobacco use even without anything in it from
the tobacco plant including nicotine it is a tobacco product.
Consider if there wasn't any tobacco pre-vaping. Perhaps then we
wouldn't be in the predicament we are now.

Regards
Mike

All i know is it's unfair & a very far stretch to consider them essentially the same . We need some people who possess a brain in these powerful positions . As far as i know as of right now , brain is not required.

 

[r055co]

Just follow the money.

Anti-E-Cig Dems Took Hundreds Of Thousands From Big Pharma

Can a mod clarify the rules a bit here. I simply state that no difference between parties in this same thread and get the posts deleted as "Keep the partisan politics out of the general forums please.."

 

[MyMagicMist]

Point of clarity and order. It is not partisan to say all politics is corrupt. It is simply a statement of obvious fact. Look up the definition of partisan before misusing it, thanks.

Partisan \Par"ti*san\ (p[aum]r"t[i^]*zan), n. [F., fr. It. partigiano. See Party, and cf. Partisan a truncheon.] [Written also partizan.] 1. An adherent to a party or faction; esp., one who is strongly and passionately devoted to a party or an interest. "The violence of a partisan." --Macaulay. [1913 Webster] Both sides had their partisans in the colony. --Jefferson. [1913 Webster]

2. (Mil.) (a) The commander of a body of detached light troops engaged in making forays and harassing an enemy. (b) Any member of such a corps. [1913 Webster]

dict.org

partisan adj 1: devoted to a cause or party [syn: partisan, partizan] [ant: nonpartisan, nonpartizan] n

1: a fervent and even militant proponent of something [syn: partisan, zealot, drumbeater] [ant: nonpartisan, nonpartizan]

2: an ardent and enthusiastic supporter of some person or activity [syn: enthusiast, partisan, partizan]

3: a pike with a long tapering double-edged blade with lateral projections; 16th and 17th centuries [syn: partisan, partizan]

dict.org

 

[Lessifer]

Can a mod clarify the rules a bit here. I simply state that no difference between parties in this same thread and get the posts deleted as "Keep the partisan politics out of the general forums please.."

I'm assuming it was cleanup from the original post that yours was a response to, that one was partisan.

 

[zoiDman]

Can a mod clarify the rules a bit here. I simply state that no difference between parties in this same thread and get the posts deleted as "Keep the partisan politics out of the general forums please.."

Not going to speak for a Mod.

But I have seen that if someone Replies with a Quote of a Post that a Mod is going to remove, that there is Good Chance that your Entire Post will be removed Also.

 

[r055co]

I'm assuming it was cleanup from the original post that yours was a response to, that one was partisan.

OK, understood ..... to a point though.

Honestly though, an IM for a heads up would have been appreciated though so one could know what it was so they would not wonder about rule violations. Especially when I see partisan posts like the one I quoted above stay in the thread ya know

 

[retired1]

Can a mod clarify the rules a bit here. I simply state that no difference between parties in this same thread and get the posts deleted as "Keep the partisan politics out of the general forums please.."

You keep insisting on getting into general politics and veer away from the topic of the thread. If you wish to discuss general political corruption and politics in general, we created Outside for that very purpose.