Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[stols001]

Nope, you can't diagnose from the internet. That doesn't stop me from doing it occasionally, LOL.

TBH, it's hard to dx someone face-to-face, often. They did a blinded study on the DSM where they paid actors to "mimic" some disorders. Let's just say that inter-diagnosis repeatability was FAR from accurate, this may have to do with background training, a clinician's "pet project" and whatnot. Oh, there are various tests you can do, and psychologists LOVE those tests, but again, they're counting self-reported "sx" so I'm not so clear they're entirely useful either.

The DSM is a billing matrix, for the most part. Homosexuality used to be a diagnosis, now being transgender is (you have to find a way to bill for all those psych tests they make you do before transitioning), it's kind of more accurately a reflection on the way society deals with MI. In broad strokes, it can be fairly useful in terms of pinpointing mood dx and some other things, but it's really a tool to bill and a kind of broad generality type thing in terms of using it to treat (with medicines) some rather broad categories. But, also why (like so much in the mental illness world) finding the right med cocktail can be tough. Let's say some doc dx you as schizoaffective, your treatment would probably start out differently than someone with bipolar II, for example. I rather think a lot of more accurate dx happens based on a patent's response to medications.

Oh, I know it is supposed to be my Holy Grail and all, and I actually DO enjoy reading it, LOL, but it's not the holy grail, not by a long stretch....

Anna

 

[Opinionated]

So he's definitely moved on?



I wouldn't try to diagnose anyone on the basis of a single video, but there seems to be a great deal more information around to help place his behavior in perspective. I do know I'm glad he's moved on, otherwise I'd be getting a restraining order out to force him to be at least 200 feet and 20 posts away from me.

Yes once I found the one video I saw that.. And I heartily agree with you..

 

[CMD-Ky]

Agreed. I see the DSM as a political and economic document. Essentially a group of the cognoscenti gather and vote what's in and what's out. It is the ultimate "scientific" consensus document.

Nope, you can't diagnose from the internet. That doesn't stop me from doing it occasionally, LOL.

TBH, it's hard to dx someone face-to-face, often. They did a blinded study on the DSM where they paid actors to "mimic" some disorders. Let's just say that inter-diagnosis repeatability was FAR from accurate, this may have to do with background training, a clinician's "pet project" and whatnot. Oh, there are various tests you can do, and psychologists LOVE those tests, but again, they're counting self-reported "sx" so I'm not so clear they're entirely useful either.

The DSM is a billing matrix, for the most part. Homosexuality used to be a diagnosis, now being transgender is (you have to find a way to bill for all those psych tests they make you do before transitioning), it's kind of more accurately a reflection on the way society deals with MI. In broad strokes, it can be fairly useful in terms of pinpointing mood dx and some other things, but it's really a tool to bill and a kind of broad generality type thing in terms of using it to treat (with medicines) some rather broad categories. But, also why (like so much in the mental illness world) finding the right med cocktail can be tough. Let's say some doc dx you as schizoaffective, your treatment would probably start out differently than someone with bipolar II, for example. I rather think a lot of more accurate dx happens based on a patent's response to medications.

Oh, I know it is supposed to be my Holy Grail and all, and I actually DO enjoy reading it, LOL, but it's not the holy grail, not by a long stretch....

Anna

 

[leftyandsparky]

No, it isn't Tom.
The guy's name is

Jacob Clare AKA Edward F Aizen.
There is a video about him by The vaping Legion on youtube
but there is much cussing so I can't post it.

He is not a nice man. I'll leave it at that and let y'all dig for the dirt if you want to

I’m so glad I didn’t sign into google and leave a reply for his video.
Just saw the video and newspaper article about him.

 

[Eskie]

Agreed. I see the DSM as a political and economic document. Essentially a group of the cognoscenti gather and vote what's in and what's out. It is the ultimate "scientific" consensus document.

Eh, that's no different from other medical coding practices in which they're developed to try and improve the accuracy of both the diagnosis for clinical purposes as well as for data collection and analysis. Also no difference than how the RCP decided the "95% harm reduction" thing we all toss around. A collection of experts assemble and try to either establish a new baseline or clarify things to better guide choices and decisions. Can you call it a political (bunch of people voting on the final version) or economic (use for billing purposes) document? Sorta, but that's a misleading description of the document as it suggests there's no medical or scientific basis to support the findings.

If you think the DSM is bad, go check out the new ICD 10 codes (which are now required for billing of both medical and psychiatric disorders n the US). Those things are so granular that you'll find 3 codes for injuries sustained on a space station. Or the more generic injury subcoded with "struck by duck". Totally accurate if you're injured by a duck striking you, but kind of a reach for expert panels to be sitting around designing stuff like that.

 

[mikepetro]

Deleted, already said....

 

[stols001]

The coding and billing specialists are all afraid of their jobs now. I'm serious. My husband has an aunt who does that, and she was not best pleased by all the new changes coming down the pike. I don't think *I* would be, either.

LOL, we all got the "DSM mini manual" at work, I was like F that! And a "diagnosis crosswalk" designed to convert old DSM dx into new ones.... It does not work.

I immediately bought the full copy off the internet for pennies from some former medical student, most likely, heh. The new DSM gets really clunky in its diagnoses. There are things I enjoy about it like the removal of the 5-axial diagnosis modes, I was never really comfortable "rating" a person's functioning on a 100 point scale, LOL. I'd always bemusedly wonder how my own number was holding up, LOL, and that would get distracting.....

I always start out UNDER diagnosing, especially kids. Sheesh. Like they need to be slapped with some big label after I do a 4 hour assessment? They all get Adjustment disorder dx until they prove otherwise, unless it's immediately clear from the get go that the kid is ADHD as all get out, or something, but even then, it's an adjustment dx, with R/O ADHD and I kick it to the psychiatrists to deal with in two weeks. I'm just not comfortable doing too much dx unless I hang with a person for a while. Even then.... Sigh. It is good to remember that labeling a person, for whatever reason, should be done with much care and forethought. The adjustment disorder dx has made me very happy over the years..... It pretty much means, "Person is adjusting to a situation and has X symptoms due to doing so."

BTY, any dx I have done on this thread is tongue in cheek. It is impossible to give that guy a more precise label than "Crayzee" which isn't really a diagnosis (though I sometimes wish it were).

Anna

 

[mikepetro]

I will stick my neck out on a limb and diagnose the man as being "Despicable", not sure what the code for that is though.......

 

[mikepetro]

What shames me though, is that for a long time I watched his analysis of the regs.

 

[leftyandsparky]

What shames me though, is that for a long time I watched his analysis of the regs.

 

[Rickb119]

Over the years I've tried to simplify things. When it comes to dealing with people I've found that the following works (for me).

1. Nice to be around.
2. OK to be around.
3. Don't be around.
4. RUN LIKE H*LL!!

As always, YMMV.

 

[Eskie]

I will stick my neck out on a limb and diagnose the man as being "Despicable", not sure what the code for that is though.......

F66.6A for active F66.6B or inactive.

 

[Bronze]

I was wrong..

First time for everything.

 

[Bronze]

Can't believe that dude got this thread so wound up. Hasn't been this active here since the thread was created.

 

[stols001]

I ah, figured out who this guy reminds me of, remember that movie, "No Country for Old Men?" The wearing all black.... the black background.... the haunting face... Does he flip a coin for which vaper he targets next?

I'm sort of done with it, in the sense I'm now finding it mildly amusing (the situation). The guy is still creepy as all get out and will always be.

I want to get a restraining order for someone who reminds me of that character, though. Not so sure it would do much good?

I do wonder about YT terms of service though. I don't wonder enough to go check if this guy is violating any, mind you, and probably NOT. But, still....

Anna

 

[DaveP]

I just watched the whole video (boring) and this guy is obviously a self appointed critic with seemingly conflicting objectives. He didn't really announce who he is or what his objective is for creating the letter and the video. Does he expect the vaping world to stand behind him?

Why the heck would a vaper who wants to continue vaping turn into a Whistle Blower against the industry? There's nothing really to be gained. The FDA is more than capable of monitoring product introduction and initiating whatever action they deem to be necessary, IMO.

 

[Eskie]

I just watched the whole video (boring) and this guy is obviously a self appointed critic with seemingly conflicting objectives. He didn't really announce who he is or what his objective is for creating the letter and the video. Does he expect the vaping world to stand behind him?

Why the heck would a vaper who wants to continue vaping turn into a Whistle Blower against the industry? There's nothing really to be gained. The FDA is more than capable of monitoring product introduction and initiating whatever action they deem to be necessary, IMO.

You really watched that whole video?

Talk about taking one for the team.

This guy's letter is going to be scanned and filed under public comments. MAYBE a keyword algorithm will bring it to a live person's attention, otherwise, it's effectively dumped in the circular file. Although some FOIA 30 years from now will cause it to pop up for historical laughs and giggles.

I think the only way we can beat this guy to death any more is by actually finding him and beating him to death. Of all my worries on a Friday, this isn't even in my universe.

 

[mikepetro]

Can't believe that dude got this thread so wound up. Hasn't been this active here since the thread was created.

Once I learned the guys background, I calmed down.

Who's the bigger idiot, the idiot, or the person who argues with him?

He is now a historical laugh, but it did ensure this thread wont get locked for a little while longer.

 

[englishmick]

that guy doesn't deserve my anger, or angst, or any emotional response from me whatsoever, I can't be bothered by this kind of noise...federal agencies deal with these "special Dotards" on a daily basis, there are tons of them out there in the wild...

When I was a lad there wasn't any internet. All folks like this guy could do was write strange letters to the local newspaper. I read an article about it a long time ago written by someone who worked in a newspaper. He said they knew all the kooks and threw their letters in a big cardboard box unread. The article included some sample letters, reading them was sad and creepy, like the guy we're talking about here.

Nowadays with the push of a button they can annoy a bunch of people on a forum, or even call themselves Mr Infowars and have an audience of millions and annoy millions more.

I like the old days better sometimes.

 

[Lessifer]

What shames me though, is that for a long time I watched his analysis of the regs.

Don't feel bad. "Remember who the real enemy is." This guy's a kook but, eh, small beans. The real problem is that an industry that affects millions of lives and has the potential to save millions, if not billions more, has to resort to armchair interpretations because the regulating authority won't produce meaningful guidance.