Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Shawn Hoefer]

You are being redirected...

And we had to beg for 30,000 survey respondents...

Did we get 30k?

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[zoiDman]

FDA, FTC take action against companies misleading kids with e-liquids that resemble children’s juice boxes, candies and cookies

 

[Baditude]

Nah... In my experience the majority of vapers lack any kind of passion beyond a handcheck. Most seem unable to read a manual or watch a YouTube video when their device starts acting up. Yeah, I'm a little bitter...

I tend to agree. The vast majority of vapers have never visited an e-cig forum. Many aren't aware of how to find pertinent information on You Tube. Too many rely on friends who vape for their education who are similarly uninformed. Too many vape shops are equally uninformed. I visited my local shop last week and neither of the two employees asked me if I had taken the survey.

Too many vapors don't realize just how good we have it at this moment in time, and don't realize it could all be taken away in a short period of time.

I support CASAA, and encourage other vapers to join (see my sig). I took the poll twice. I've posted on social media (Facebook) for others to take the poll. I don't know what else I, as an individual, can do for the cause.

 

[zoiDman]

...
What we lack is organization.

 

[zoiDman]

I tend to agree. The vast majority of vapers have never visited an e-cig forum. Many aren't aware of how to find pertinent information on You Tube. Too many rely on friends who vape for their education who are similarly uninformed. Too many vape shops are equally uninformed.

Too many vapors don't realize just how good we have it at this moment in time, and don't realize it could all be taken away in a short period of time.

I Agree with the First Part of your assessment. Regarding Vape Shops being Uninformed, I believe All but a Very Few know Exactly what is Going On.

But Informing their customers Doesn't Fit into the Business Model that they choose to operate under. Which is Get As Much as you can as Quick as you can and let the Devil take the Rest.

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

I Agree with the First Part of your assessment. Regarding Vape Shops being Uninformed, I believe All but a Very Few know Exactly what is Going On.

But Informing their customers Doesn't Fit into the Business Model that they choose to operate under. Which is Get As Much as you can as Quick as you can and let the Devil take the Rest.

Somebody hurt you didn't they?

For every shop that's out there just to grab a buck there are shops dedicated to the idea of helping people quit smoking. That doesn't mean that their staff is properly informed, but the shop is trying.

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[zoiDman]

Somebody hurt you didn't they?

...

Not in the Least.

I am just Disgusted by the Amount of Effort that Retailers as a whole are putting towards Any Form of Advocacy or Informing their Customers.

Yes, there are Some. And they should be Applauded for Doing the Right Thing. But they are a Very Small Fraction of the entire Market.

 

[Lessifer]

FDA, FTC take action against companies misleading kids with e-liquids that resemble children’s juice boxes, candies and cookies

How young would a child have to be to actually confuse a juice box with a "juice" box?
How old do you have to be to buy e-liquid again?
Where do you usually find e-liquid like that?
How much BS are you willing to eat before you start fighting back, instead of trying to squeak by?

 

[zoiDman]

How young would a child have to be to actually confuse a juice box with a "juice" box?
How old do you have to be to buy e-liquid again?
Where do you usually find e-liquid like that?
How much BS are you willing to eat before you start fighting back, instead of trying to squeak by?

Dunno.
Dunno.
Dunno.
Tell Me How to Fight Les and I'll throw the First Punch.

 

[Lessifer]

Dunno.
Dunno.
Dunno.
Tell Me How to Fight Les and I'll throw the First Punch.

The point is, the argument that kids are being tricked into trying e-liquid because of the packaging is ridiculous, once you actually take a minute to think about it, which I know is a lot to ask these days.

How do we fight? With the truth, and by pointing out how ridiculous it is, until people are forced to take notice. Ideally there could be a huge PR campaign, and a group dedicated to promoting less harmful alternatives to tobacco/smoking. That group needs funding and it can’t all fall on the consumers.

I don’t have a magic answer, I can’t see how supporting BS is helpful though.

 

[Lessifer]

Does anyone really think they’ll stop at packaging? If they use the same BS argument against flavors as they do against packaging, what will the defense be?

 

[zoiDman]

The point is, the argument that kids are being tricked into trying e-liquid because of the packaging is ridiculous, once you actually take a minute to think about it, which I know is a lot to ask these days.

How do we fight? With the truth, and by pointing out how ridiculous it is, until people are forced to take notice. Ideally there could be a huge PR campaign, and a group dedicated to promoting less harmful alternatives to tobacco/smoking. That group needs funding and it can’t all fall on the consumers.

I don’t have a magic answer, I can’t see how supporting BS is helpful though.

And this is Going to Sway members of Congress? Or those at the HHS/FDA? Because that is where the Fight is.

Face it, some Packaging is just Not Going to be Received Well by the General Public. Or even Many Vapers. It just kinda Is what it Is.

 

[zoiDman]

Does anyone really think they’ll stop at packaging? If they use the same BS argument against flavors as they do against packaging, what will the defense be?

Of Course they Won't.

But Does Fighting for ANY Type of Packaging that an OEM wants to use Help or Hurt us?

 

[Lessifer]

And this is Going to Sway members of Congress? Or those at the HHS/FDA? Because that is where the Fight is.

Face it, some Packaging is just Not Going to be Received Well by the General Public. Or even Many Vapers. It just kinda Is what it Is.

I agree, that juice box package is stupid. Here's the thing, there is no nuance. When the line is imaginary, it moves depending on who is looking at it. They are accusing JUUL of advertising to kids ffs.

 

[ScottP]

This is what is meant by "echo chamber". Everyone posting, listening to, and ranting in places where the majority are on the same side as them and will agree. Unfortunately, NOTHING will be accomplished this way.

 

[Baditude]

This is what is meant by "echo chamber". Everyone posting, listening to, and ranting in places where the majority are on the same side as them and will agree. Unfortunately, NOTHING will be accomplished this way.

I'm open to listen to any reasonable, practical options, given the difficult odds that are stacked against us.

 

[zoiDman]

I agree, that juice box package is stupid. Here's the thing, there is no nuance. When the line is imaginary, it moves depending on who is looking at it. They are accusing JUUL of advertising to kids ffs.

Yeah... That Line is Imaginary. And it Shifts as things around it Shift.

To be Honest, if the whole "Juul" thing hadn't Blown Up, I don't think we would be even having this conversation.

BTW - You do know that the FDA has Recently testified before Congress regarding their Next Budget Allocation?

 

[Lessifer]

Yeah... That Line is Imaginary. And it Shifts as things around it Shift.

To be Honest, if the whole "Juul" thing hadn't Blown Up, I don't think we would be even having this conversation.

BTW - You do know that the FDA has Recently testified before Congress regarding their Next Budget Allocation?

They're stepping up enforcement, right? I foresee a lot of sting operations, lots of gas stations and convenience stores getting letters/fines. Hopefully no vape shops will be dumb enough to ignore the laws. Of course it will all fall under "tobacco retailers selling to minors."

Juul is just a prime example that you can try to do everything right, and they'll still come after you. No flashy labels, no fun names, no giant clouds, doesn't matter. I saw a post from a vaper on FB saying that juul is the problem, because the high nic is giving a buzz, nevermind that the intended audience for the juul requires a high nic content, especially with a device that provides minimal vapor.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Juul is just a prime example that you can try to do everything right, and they'll still come after you. ...

But remember who the "they" are.

And what their Motivation is in pressuring the FDA to "Fix" things.

 

[Mowgli]

I woke someone today.

He'd only seen the propaganda on TV and has no vaping or smoking friends so he didn't know shift about vaping (or care).

I explained quickly that:

1. vaping doesn't use combustion so there's no carbon monoxide
2. there's no doctored tobacco so there's no carcinogens and
3. Smoke contains MAO inhibitors (he knew what they do) and there's no smoke so vaping nicotine is magnitudes less addictive in vapor than in smoke.
4. Media propagates lies because bad news sells so that's what they serve as news

Dawn broke over Marblehead before I even explained about anti-smoking organizations need a cause to fight to get easy money or that States need taxes more than they care about individuals or dozens of other quick & effective truths

less than a minute and "woke" - unusually easy but a mind is like a parachute etc