Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Myk]

People seem to forget, a business or corp has one master, it is profit. They have no loyalty to country or worker or country leader. Their only loyalty is to profit. Without that they cease to exist. Tariffs are a disaster because businesses and corps affected by them will move to where their market is without tariffs. If USA is not their main market, they will move elsewhere. If tariffs hurt a US business they will move or go out of business. Profit is only driven by a few things, product demand, low cost supplies and low cost labor. That creates the profit and profit is the master of all business and corporations.

OK, then explain how it is that the CEO jobs didn't go to China too? Why is it CEOs are given pay rates that are more than one person can ever produce for a company? Why is it the local major manufacturer is very top heavy with highly paid white collar while pushing lower paid blue collar out to companies they split off and handed to their highly paid execs?

If it was all about the profits wouldn't it make sense to pay the CEO where the top union job is $25/hr something like $30/hr? How do golden parachutes figure into this profit? Because I'm thinking handing someone millions of dollars takes a big chunk of profit.

The boards are loyal to their friends, just like small businesses used to be loyal to their workers when they were run by former workers in the trade and not paper pushers who know nothing about the trade.
The boards are extremely short sighted not considering who they're going to sell products to once everyone is poor except for their friends on the boards and CEO positions because they weren't loyal to their workers or the economic viability of the country.

 

[bnrkwest]

When a business incorporates it incorporates as a profit driven corp. the corp has to make a profit or die. If a corp is a non profit, money is not their master but their purpose, goals, vision is their master.
My opinion is once you know what a for profit corp is and isn't you understand where it is coming from. They don't want anything to stand in it's way to make a profit. They are businesses and they have no loyalty to anything else. When I took business management I was actually appalled. Workers were not to be considered they were replaceable. Supplies the same, no loyalty to suppliers, they could be replaced. Profit was all that mattered. So once we know this, we can see corporations for what they are. They should not be running governments and the worker should look at them like they look at us- replaceable

 

[bnrkwest]

OK, then explain how it is that the CEO jobs didn't go to China too? Why is it CEOs are given pay rates that are more than one person can ever produce for a company? Why is it the local major manufacturer is very top heavy with highly paid white collar while pushing lower paid blue collar out to companies they split off and handed to their highly paid execs?

If it was all about the profits wouldn't it make sense to pay the CEO where the top union job is $25/hr something like $30/hr? How do golden parachutes figure into this profit? Because I'm thinking handing someone millions of dollars takes a big chunk of profit.

The boards are loyal to their friends, just like small businesses used to be loyal to their workers when they were run by former workers in the trade and not paper pushers who know nothing about the trade.
The boards are extremely short sighted not considering who they're going to sell products to once everyone is poor except for their friends on the boards and CEO positions because they weren't loyal to their workers or the economic viability of the country.

How much of the corp does the CEO own? That may provide some answer. I didn't say they were smart LOL

 

[bnrkwest]

Also look at why corps would keep part of their group in USA, follow the money. Many get tax breaks, incentives to stay even tho they move manufacturing over seas. Some move the whole corp, some just parts. With tariffs we will see a bunch of shuffling around. Some may leave US for good.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

People seem to forget, a business or corp has one master, it is profit. They have no loyalty to country or worker or country leader. Their only loyalty is to profit. Without that they cease to exist. Tariffs are a disaster because businesses and corps affected by them will move to where their market is without tariffs. If USA is not their main market, they will move elsewhere. If tariffs hurt a US business they will move or go out of business. Profit is only driven by a few things, product demand, low cost supplies and low cost labor. That creates the profit and profit is the master of all business and corporations.

I wasn't going to go off topic but with that I must. As a small business owner I take exception to this post lumping all businesses together. My employees that aren't family are next to family to me and I treat them that way. I'm not driving new cars or trucks and live in a modest house built in the 60's. I could be a hard ars and make more money myself but I try to treat them the way I would want treated with paid vacations, holidays, insurance, bonuses, etc. Things that most businesses with 5 employees (excluding myself and my wife) dont provide.

 

[stols001]

Yes, if businesses were smart, and valued work, they wouldn't give that kind of a profit to the CEO.

But, you were painted a narrative in business school and it sounds like you swallowed it whole.

You know, you don't have to agree with everything that you learn in business school, or be its apologist or "explain it."

We all know it's pure greed. Somehow, that PURE greed gets narrativized by business schools into some immutable thing that can't change or shouldn't change.

You know when the income inequality is now worse than during the great depression and people actually like, don't care about outsourcing to FOREIGN KIDS and whatever, that's just.... That's just freaking the Industrial age on a global scale.

Small smart business owners VALUE their employees. By the time all was through and done my husband was making AN EQUAL part in profit, for the dude who took on the risk. It was worth it to the owner, who perhaps was not as TALENTED at architectural matters than the business owner who was SUPER TALENTED at running a business, and my husband won enough awards and brought in MORE business so BOTH parties made more.

It's just not all as simplistic as business school makes it, although I understand they are selling a narrative and crafting new, mid level corporate managers, willing to "WHIP" the expendable proletariat.

And yea, pyramids get built, but the Egyptian culture of long ago is no longer in service.

God.

Anna

 

[Myk]

When I took business management I was actually appalled. Workers were not to be considered they were replaceable. Supplies the same, no loyalty to suppliers, they could be replaced. Profit was all that mattered.

That's the short sighted problem where people who can't teach those who can't to manage those who do.
It should be obvious that your business is your workers. Even all the way down to the turd herder cleaning toilets. It was at one time until paper pushers took over the government and made paper pushers the essential part of business.

How much of the corp does the CEO own? That may provide some answer. I didn't say they were smart LOL

How did the CEO get ownership is my question.
If they actually started the business they probably aren't doing all that stuff. Otherwise the board handed the CEO that as part of their "profit building".

 

[bnrkwest]

That's the short sighted problem where people who can't teach those who can't to manage those who do.
It should be obvious that your business is your workers. Even all the way down to the turd herder cleaning toilets. It was at one time until paper pushers took over the government and made paper pushers the essential part of business.



How did the CEO get ownership is my question.
If they actually started the business they probably aren't doing all that stuff. Otherwise the board handed the CEO that as part of their "profit building".

If the corp has share holders that CEO could have been given shares or could have bought them. It is crazy what they make, why do the corps allow it? Shareholders could rebel.

As for workers does the corp care if they are Americans or Chinese? I think not.

 

[bnrkwest]

I wasn't going to go off topic but with that I must. As a small business owner I take exception to this post lumping all businesses together. My employees that aren't family are next to family to me and I treat them that way. I'm not driving new cars or trucks and live in a modest house built in the 60's. I could be a hard ars and make more money myself but I try to treat them the way I would want treated with paid vacations, holidays, insurance, bonuses, etc. Things that most businesses with 5 employees (excluding myself and my wife) dont provide.

I also owned a business but I was not incorporated. I'm talking about big corps, not small businesses. Actually US could survive quite nicely if all were small run businesses like yours and operated years ago.

 

[bnrkwest]

Yes, if businesses were smart, and valued work, they wouldn't give that kind of a profit to the CEO.

But, you were painted a narrative in business school and it sounds like you swallowed it whole.

You know, you don't have to agree with everything that you learn in business school, or be its apologist or "explain it."

We all know it's pure greed. Somehow, that PURE greed gets narrativized by business schools into some immutable thing that can't change or shouldn't change.

You know when the income inequality is now worse than during the great depression and people actually like, don't care about outsourcing to FOREIGN KIDS and whatever, that's just.... That's just freaking the Industrial age on a global scale.

Small smart business owners VALUE their employees. By the time all was through and done my husband was making AN EQUAL part in profit, for the dude who took on the risk. It was worth it to the owner, who perhaps was not as TALENTED at architectural matters than the business owner who was SUPER TALENTED at running a business, and my husband won enough awards and brought in MORE business so BOTH parties made more.

It's just not all as simplistic as business school makes it, although I understand they are selling a narrative and crafting new, mid level corporate managers, willing to "WHIP" the expendable proletariat.

And yea, pyramids get built, but the Egyptian culture of long ago is no longer in service.

God.

Anna

I didn't swallow it, it goes against everything I believe in. Like I said I was appalled. I work now for a Non - Profit as a founding board member. I have never been impressed with or driven by money or profit. Mission and goals are more important to me.

All I am sharing is my experience from seeing both sides. A For Profit corp has one goal, make a profit. That is the only reason they incorporate, it is called a For Profit Corp. It's pretty simple, those are facts.

 

[440BB]

Although I believe tariffs lead to favoritism and corruption, I don't think they would stop most all of us from continued purchases of vape equipment. Just another form of tax on the consumer. The deeming regulations would be a whole different matter, restricting access to equipment from both near and far. That's what I'm concerned about in the long run for the smokers among us.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

Man, you gotta love this thread. I'm a business owner who previously spent many years working for very big companies. Of course, I have my own opinions, but - I'm reading a lot of very smart "stuff" and a lot of pretty wrong headed "stuff." But the cool part is, no personal attacks, crude behavior, or really foul people. Just strong opinions, some of which are very well thought out and articulated.

Anyway, it just made me think that even if I didn't vape, this is a pretty damn good forum overall. I haven't spent much time on forums, but enough to know that this one is among the most helpful and polite, with a much higher percentage of nice people with intelligence and decorum, than you can find most places on the internet.

But don't let me interrupt...carry on!

 

[Bronze]

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[Bronze]

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[Bronze]

There is no way anyone can convince me that there is anything fair about one side charging a 25% tariff while the other side charges 0 - 5% unless there is some unusual circumstance (like being charitable to a dilapidated country or similar).

 

[Brewdawg1181]

I'm just thinking that we should ease up on Chinese tariffs a bit.
But demand the IP for all Chinese product sold in the US.
Just kidding...sort of.

 

[bnrkwest]

This is very short sighted. The whole idea of establishing tariffs (in the current context) is to get the other side to reduce/remove theirs. They are not intended to be long term or permanent. For this reason, tariffs are not a disaster. They are a means to an improved end.

That maybe the plan but history tells us it doesn't work that way. Other countries fight back. And why shouldn't they? Free trade works better and bullying with tariffs backfire.

 

[bnrkwest]

If this were true the business would not be compelled to obey the laws they operate under. Again...you have a black and white view of this.

There two types of corporations For Profit and Non Profit. The laws for corps are pretty black and white

 

[zoiDman]

That maybe the plan but history tells us it doesn't work that way. Other countries fight back. And why shouldn't they? Free trade works better and bullying with tariffs backfire.

When you say "Free Trade", do you mean when Both Parties play by the Same Economic/Monetary/Legal Rules?

 

[Bronze]

That maybe the plan but history tells us it doesn't work that way. Other countries fight back. And why shouldn't they? Free trade works better and bullying with tariffs backfire.

I do not recall any serious sustained effort to combat unfair trade practices.