Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
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It's hard to generalize. I suspect the difference in the UK arises from some structural aspects of the system there rather than just the fact that is has socialized medicine. Like the way different official health related bodies are structured and how their members are appointed or something. Maybe that those official bodies aren't financed or controlled by corporations the way they are in some other places. I don't know the system well enough to know the explanation.
Gottlieb has argued time and again that vaping is a harm reduction option for smokers. His latest regulatory decision on flavors, vaping, and underage access was drawn up to keep flavored e liquids on the market but to require stricter controlled access to sales areas with flavored nicotine products to assure adult only access was maintained. He considered and was under significant political pressure to ban flavorings outright but refused to do so. He wanted availability of vape related products and flavors to remain available for adults using it to stop using combustible tobacco while trying to further discourage underage use.
We're all quick to paint the FDA in negative light that we fail to recognize when they go something positive for folks like us. Think back to pre 2016 and compare to today on whether the FDA is so terrible these days regarding vaping. There's been a lot of progress since then.
I see this measure from Scott G kind of like Moses parting the red sea. It is one man holding back a flood and when he is gone (and he could be gone in just 2 years), the water is going to come crashing down and drown anyone not prepared. DIY'ers will be fine as food flavors will still be obtainable but those still buying pre-made are going to be in for a world of hurt.
It very much is like that. Things may get very ugly with his loss at some I inevitable point. My hope is there is an approval framework for vaping products in place so rational PMTAs can be filed. It will be more difficult for a future policy change to simply tear out what's been approved. There would be grounds for lots of lawsuits for renegging on a process for approval that will cause severe financial losses to those who attempted to follow the regs in good faith. That's about the best long term we've got outside of individual preparation for security.
I guess the approval process is the next significant milestone. Haven't heard any news about when that might happen. You're right, if they put something out that's reasonable it would be hard to reverse.
Well, difficult to reverse retroactively. Especially if applications are in the pipeline. In the future it could always be messed with, just as the TCA didn't attempt to regulate stuff already out.
He also took a pretty good shot at BT with the menthol tobacco ban. They filed suit like the day after the announcement, and may very well win as over reaching on products already on the market pre-TCA. But he won a lot of political points with the anti-tobacco groups with that move, so even if he's overturned in court he can still say he tried.
The other factor that will come into play is the advancing evidence of significant harm reduction that's accumulating, which makes it more and more difficult to justify the removal of e cigarettes from the marketplace. And as stuff is already coming out with greater frequency, and assuming that picks up over the next one to two years as current studies end up completed and published it will compound the difficulty at regulating out of existence.
Still far from a slam dunk, but better than in 2015-2016, when the knives were out and there wasn't a whole lot of support in the medical community for vaping as harm reduction. Now it's a tougher sell, although underage use will continue to plague the industry.
The worst will be if reproducible, statistically sound data appears that underage and young adult use can lead to conversion to combustible tobacco. Then things will end up even tougher on sale outlets and underage access.
Just remember, if no action had been taken by Gottlieb the vaping industry would currently be GONE! That it is still here suggests he deserves at least some credit. Not gonna kiss his feet but not gonna wish him dead either.
Honestly on ALL of those teen studies the very first question should be "Have you ever eaten a Tide pod, eaten a tablespoon of pure cinnamon, or snorted a condom up your nose?" If the answer is "yes", then the respondent is clearly an idiot and the entry should be discarded since that person will very likely end up smoking all sorts of stuff regardless of what the FDA does or doesn't do.
Exactly. Just 2-1/2 years ago, when the Deeming was finalized, we were expecting all of it to be GONE by August 8, 2018.
Now here we are, with pretty much everything still available, including a plethora of new products that technically shouldn't be, but we're all upset that Juul (and similar vendors) are being told they can't sell some of their flavors in C-Stores?
Oh, the huge manatee!
The part I hate is those surveys with "have you used a vape product at least once in the last month?". So you take one puff off a friend's Juul, and bang, a vaper be. Those surveys should be directed at regular, daily or at least several times a week users, and quantify use by say pod count. That information would be valuable.
It can sorta be buried in there at present, but doesn't get teased out for essentially political reasons, which undermines the whole scientific validity thing.
Look, I know I don't, and don't believe anyone else here, wants to see some subset, however small, of teens becoming habituated (not sure "addiction" will apply although substance use disorder could by medical definition) to vaping. Better than cigarettes? Sure. But still, not as good as nothing. If there are common sense methods to minimize that I'm all for it. It's better the vaping community supports those efforts and appears rational and responsible about it. Through that whole fuss, dedicated vape shops came across as very legitimate due to the strict enforcement of age restriction. That's the stuff that builds positive public sentiment. Granted, not a helluva lot, but better than nothing. Let the antz crowd look like irrational raving nuts. Let's keep the vaping community looking like the responsible adults in this issue. It can be done.
It can sorta be buried in there at present, but doesn't get teased out for essentially political reasons, which undermines the whole scientific validity thing.
Look, I know I don't, and don't believe anyone else here, wants to see some subset, however small, of teens becoming habituated (not sure "addiction" will apply although substance use disorder could by medical definition) to vaping. Better than cigarettes? Sure. But still, not as good as nothing. If there are common sense methods to minimize that I'm all for it. It's better the vaping community supports those efforts and appears rational and responsible about it. Through that whole fuss, dedicated vape shops came across as very legitimate due to the strict enforcement of age restriction. That's the stuff that builds positive public sentiment. Granted, not a helluva lot, but better than nothing. Let the antz crowd look like irrational raving nuts. Let's keep the vaping community looking like the responsible adults in this issue. It can be done.
If he somehow weaves a way to reduce teen smoking and vaping while making it possible for us older farts to vape then he will be quite the meistro. Remains to be seen. But I am thinking this is where he is trying to go.Exactly. Just 2-1/2 years ago, when the Deeming was finalized, we were expecting all of it to be GONE by August 8, 2018.
Now here we are, with pretty much everything still available, including a plethora of new products that technically shouldn't be, but we're all upset that Juul (and similar vendors) are being told they can't sell some of their flavors in C-Stores?
Oh, the huge manatee!
Exactly. Just 2-1/2 years ago, when the Deeming was finalized, we were expecting all of it to be GONE by August 8, 2018.
Now here we are, with pretty much everything still available, including a plethora of new products that technically shouldn't be, but we're all upset that Juul (and similar vendors) are being told they can't sell some of their flavors in C-Stores?
Oh, the huge manatee!
It's the slippery slope. We do seem almost hard wired to see the world that way. Give them an inch, foot in the door, and all that. Politicians and pressure groups use slippery slope arguments all the time because we always fall for it. Maybe it's true sometimes, but a lot of the time we end up worrying and fighting about something that hasn't happened yet and most of the time never will happen.
In what country am I now living, there really are times when the tree of liberty is in need of watering...
What is the Microsoft moto?
"If you Can't Beat your competition by making a Better Product, then just Buy them."
LOL
Interesting they are taking a risk with FDA rules still unsettled. But they are BT...do they know something we don't? Kind of a rhetorical question.
I have a new startup in the works. I'll be producing and distributing Methylxanthine. It comes in the form of a white powder and can be added to your favorite food or drink. It's best used in the morning for a quick awakening when you are still drowsy from your evening of sleep. It's also a great pick me up for those early afternoons when you feel drowsy from that large meal you had for lunch. It's fantastic for college students who need to study for the next days final exam.
I'm Currently waiting for FDA approval. I'm hoping it comes through soon. I hope they don't ban it. That would turn this country upsidown. A good 90% of people would be up in arms. But if they ban it, oh well. I'll come up with something else.
I'm Currently waiting for FDA approval. I'm hoping it comes through soon. I hope they don't ban it. That would turn this country upsidown. A good 90% of people would be up in arms. But if they ban it, oh well. I'll come up with something else.
Interesting they are taking a risk with FDA rules still unsettled. But they are BT...do they know something we don't? Kind of a rhetorical question.
You just can't really Regulate a Multi-Billion Dollar market and keep the Major Players in the dark as to How things are going to play out. It kinda makes things like Capital Expenditures and Compliance hard to do.
I would think the Big Joker in the Deck though would be What Happens if our friend Scott has to chuck all his stuff into a Cardboard Box in January of 2020?
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