Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Jman8]

I continue to think the black market for vaping nicotine (or even just vaping flavored non nic) will be huge. And that market plus social media continues to give me hope. But ANTZ being ANTZ will capitalize on propaganda during every black market fiasco that occurs. In many ways I see it as no different than R-Madness a century ago. ANTZ (especially with regards to vaping) will be seen as so obviously dumb, it is only laughable how anyone thought a) it that harmful and b) it could be contained to a restricted market. And even more funny during the 'early ages' of social media.

But yeah, the market we enjoy today is likely going away. And while ANTZ is mostly responsible, the mass of people that think very little about vaping are suddenly up to 30% (or so) blame in how did we get here so suddenly?

ANTZ, I would think (giving them enormous benefit of doubt here) is aware of the black market that is coming. The masses, I think are in for a wakeup call. Might take awhile, but then again, maybe it won't.

Anyway, someone or some group is about to get vastly wealthy. Probably won't see them on the open market anytime soon.

 

[440BB]

From wearing pajamas to ecigs. Walmart is our guide to better living.

 

[Baditude]

... while ANTZ is mostly responsible ... how did we get here so suddenly?

It's been in the works since the the first Deeming. The FDA, Big Pharma, Big Tobacco, and ANTZ has had a Master Plan to get rid of vaping because of the Tobacco Settlement Act isn't working. I think they know how important flavors are, and removing them will destroy the the industry. Recently they have focused on the youth vaping epidemic and flavors attracting kids to vape, not to mention the media fear mongering influency the general public. Then the THC scandel was the final straw which allowed the goverment to take emergency action. No questions asked.

 

[Horselady154]

Can't let a good emergency go to waste.

 

[mikepetro]

"FDA estimates that 24 respondents will submit PMTA bundles"

They are probably not far off.

Do you really think it will be that many?

Just think, of those 24 at least half will be denied, that means the market will be reduced to a dozen products......

 

[mikepetro]

And damn Juul will likely be one of them.

 

[AttyPops]

And damn Juul will likely be one of them.

It's pretty much owned by Altria (well, 35% share). So you may as well say "BT".

 

[zoiDman]

And damn Juul will likely be one of them.

I'm sure JUUL is going to submit at Least 2 PMTA's. One of them will be for a JUUL v2.0

And it will be Fundamentally Different to the JUUL that is the market Right Now.

 

[Katya]

Too little, too late?

Watch CBS This Morning: Public health expert on e-cigarette panic - Full show on CBS All Access

Very nice! Here's another nice one:

Will a vaping ban send smokers back to cigarettes?

But yeah. A lot of damage has already been done. Not that it can't be undone, especially if court challenges against those illegal bans are successful, but I'm not holding my breath. How many small businesses will be destroyed in the process? How many good people will lose their livelihood?

 

[Eskie]

Let's face it, the THC oil outbreak was a giant Christmas present to the ANTZ and BT crowd. It was just enough for that final push. Plenty of PR firms were spinning this into the press with vaping in bold, including Juul I believe. .

 

[Katya]

Walmart to End Sales of E-Cigarettes

Good grief...........

 

[Jman8]

It's been in the works since the the first Deeming. The FDA, Big Pharma, Big Tobacco, and ANTZ has had a Master Plan to get rid of vaping because of the Tobacco Settlement Act isn't working. I think they know how important flavors are, and removing them will destroy the the industry. Recently they have focused on the youth vaping epidemic and flavors attracting kids to vape, not to mention the media fear mongering influency the general public. Then the THC scandel was the final straw which allowed the goverment to take emergency action. No questions asked.

Like your post, but the bolded part above is antithesis of what I just conveyed, lol. While the legal, open market is going away, prohibition in America has never, ever worked.

Agree they have a Master Plan, but that (pathetic) plan is IMO dumbfounded when it comes to black market. Aware of it, but will be constantly working against it as it represents clear indication there is still many satisfied customers/users. Many of which are teens.

They are yet to tie any serious harm to vaping nic. That doesn't bode well for them. In fact, it truly sucks for their position. And going forward, it'll be super duper easy to blame black market (rather than product itself) for all incidents of harm. That too doesn't bode well for them. Add in a healthy dose of social media, and IMO, their Master Plan is doomed to fail.

Hopefully sooner than later.

Also, not plausible for them to remove flavors (flavoring) from the open market. Or if it is, I don't want to live in that world.

 

[Eskie]

Very nice! Here's another nice one:

Will a vaping ban send smokers back to cigarettes?

But yeah. A lot of damage has already been done. Not that it can't be undone, especially if court challenges against those illegal bans are successful, but I'm not holding my breath. How many small businesses will be destroyed in the process? How many good people will lose their livelihood?

I'm already getting emails from B&M stores I've gone to in NY and used that they're closing their doors in two weeks. They have no alternative as 90% of the revenue is being taken away. That won't be undone so easily. For one, any capital source will be very concerned that their investment could be regulated away in a matter of weeks without any control, and two anyone already in the business couldn't restart if they wanted to as they're likely going through a business bankruptcy having to break leases, and unable to pay distributors for stock that cannot be sold. They're done.

 

[Katya]

Let's face it, the THC oil outbreak was a giant Christmas present to the ANTZ and BT crowd. It was just enough for that final push. Plenty of PR firms were spinning this into the press with vaping in bold, including Juul I believe. .

Bingo. I truly believe that the ANTZ were on their back foot for quite some time, especially after the game changing proclamation from PHE that vaping is 95% safer than smoking. But then came JUUL and those contaminated THC cartridges. Perfect crisis. And now they're baaaaaaaaaack. Full force.

 

[mikepetro]

A friggin train wreck.

 

[Baditude]

@Jman8 Just watch....

 

[AttyPops]

How many small businesses will be destroyed in the process? How many good people will lose their livelihood?

Quite a few, but less than the 6-7 million lives saved by eliminating combustible cigs.

That's why I think that it's really a deal to eliminate smoking**. And an easy rationalization for them to support such stupid statement rationalized regulation. Because they know the long game here, they just aren't saying it.

** = as much as possible. No commercial cigs, no loose leave tobacco sales.

 

[zoiDman]

Let's face it, the THC oil outbreak was a giant Christmas present to the ANTZ and BT crowd. It was just enough for that final push. Plenty of PR firms were spinning this into the press with vaping in bold, including Juul I believe. .

It can be Viewed that way. And I'm Not say'n it hasn't. But I think there is Also a Silver Lining.

Because I Don't Think the FDA or the CDC or Many Fed and State Officials expected there to be Any serious Push Back from Reasonable Commentators/Organizations.

It became Very Clear that the CDC was dragging it's feet to place Blame for all this on Illegal/Illicit THC Carts. But in a Way this created a Vacuum for Critics to step in and point out how Systemically Flawed our Regulatory and "Public Health" system truly is.

So in the Grand Scheme of things, this may actually Help when it comes time for the PMTA approval process.

 

[Jman8]

@Jman8 Just watch....

Do you deny that a black market will exist?

I truly do not see it being that underground. I think it'll be blatantly open. For sure as long as there is no serious harm incidents tied to vaping nic. Currently, whenever they bring up an incident, they usually get bit in the .... by us. Well first us, then science, then us again. All that's going to continue in the underground market.

Enough of the masses will come around to rationale that an illegal market clearly causes more harm than what came before it.

You disagree with this?

 

[Bronze]

Very nice! Here's another nice one:

Will a vaping ban send smokers back to cigarettes?

But yeah. A lot of damage has already been done. Not that it can't be undone, especially if court challenges against those illegal bans are successful, but I'm not holding my breath. How many small businesses will be destroyed in the process? How many good people will lose their livelihood?

Let's face it, the THC oil outbreak was a giant Christmas present to the ANTZ and BT crowd. It was just enough for that final push. Plenty of PR firms were spinning this into the press with vaping in bold, including Juul I believe. .

Yep, the THC thing was the knockout punch. Truthfully, I did not calculate such a thing in my predictions. I maintained vaping would survive in one form or another but this cabal is too overwhelming to have any hope. I'm not even sure the ANTZ saw this one coming (but I would not be surprised if they were behind it either).