Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[AttyPops]

The article quoted that the Center for Disease Control said the "vaping associated illness" (new term) could be linked to diacetyl for causing "hundreds" of cases.

Is this poor reporting? New findings that the CDC hasn't previously announced? I don't know. I though that our vaping industry stopped using diacetyl years ago.

Maybe.

"diagnosed with a disease linked" (as in previously reported in history). Maybe not "deduced from the current user base of ecig related problems".

 

[CMD-Ky]

The article quoted that the Center for Disease Control said the "vaping associated illness" (new term) could be linked to diacetyl for causing "hundreds" of cases.

Is this poor reporting? From an old news story? New findings that the CDC hasn't previously announced? I don't know. I thought that our vaping industry stopped using diacetyl years ago.

I'll suggest a fourth possibility, willful ignorance?

 

[Baditude]

 

[AttyPops]

More reason why MI may have eliminated the possession language from the rules:
Don't go back to cigarettes. There's a loophole in Michigan's e-cigarette ban

Michigan’s ban on flavored e-cigarettes provides a loophole for people worried about reverting back to cigarettes.

Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s ban only applies to flavored nicotine. That means people may still buy vape liquids and pods that are free of nicotine. And for about $5, they can buy a flavorless nicotine packet and dump it into a bottle of vape liquid.

The ban no longer prohibits possession of flavored nicotine; it only prohibits the sale of it.

Since the process will make it more difficult for children to get their hands on both vape liquid and nicotine packets, Whitmer’s ban still has its intended impact. And for vapors who feared reverting back to cigarettes, they still have a way to vape flavored nicotine.

I'm not sure that final quoted paragraph is correct, but it's at least a break for vapers that want flavors, and might help some smokers transition. Besides, if they need help figuring it out, they can ask a teen......

 

[stols001]

Actually most teens are utterly brilliant at multiple things. They're relentlessly intelligent and in pursuit of knowledge.

Had I the know how and whatever (I should probably ask a teen) I would create a website where adults could take WHATEVER intractable problem they had and the teen would come up with a creative solution for them. LOL.

Anna

 

[stols001]

You know, I grew up in countries where like, popcorn was not really a "thing." At least at the time. I mean, in France you could buy roasted chestnuts from carts in the holiday season (they are utterly disgusting) but also vendors that would provide you with the BEST GRILLED CHEESE sandwich of all time. They are called "croq monsieurs." I forget what it means exactly.

Popcorn was ONE USA food that I was unabashedly PRO. I mean, like, peanut butter (and JELLY!) kind of make me gag a bit but popcorn was TOTALLY the bomb.

Trust someone to ruin popcorn and vaping all at once. For SHAME.

And like the PANS that you shove on the stove and there is this accordion like metal thing where it inflates? PURE GENIUS if you ask me.

I am never again uttering "popcorn" and "vaping" in the same sentence after this. It's too sad.

Anna

 

[Horselady154]

Jiffy Pop and the pan is made of aluminum foil. Not good for you.

 

[stols001]

I am willing to make exceptions for some things, and being the first person to introduce the wide eyed child to the magically inflating popcorn tub is one of them.

This is because being alive, I have found, is not particularly good for you. So, sometimes you just gotta.

I am very proud to be the BAD AUNTIE who introduced her nephew (who reminds her very much of her son) to the joys of FIREWORKS.

EVERY Christmas thereafter he would excitedly like ask if I was going to be there and would three be fireworks. Of course I made sure there WERE.

Another pyro joins the fold. I regret nothing. LOL.

Anna

 

[ENAUD]

FDA in late May 2020

 

[sofarsogood]

The "Popcorn Lung" thing has come back to haunt us.

"The Centers for Disease Control said hundreds of people have been diagnosed with a bronchial disease linked to the chemical diacetyl, a chemical used to give butter-like flavors to popcorn and other foods.

The common name for that illness is popcorn lung.

"That same chemical has been found in some of the flavoring compounds that are used for flavoring vapes," Reed said."
​

2 Buncombe County people suffer consequences of latest smoking craze

The way the above is worded there is no claim that ecigs are associated with the 200 cases.

The flavor bans are a hail mary pass that might miss in court. I believe Trump blundered by injecting himself into the controversy but he triggered a national conversation, finally. There are enough vapers to make him a one term president. May be he waits for a bunch of democratic governors to do their flavor bans then says "oh, never mind,' We'll wait for next May, and undercuts them. I was a single issue voter in 2016. Sadly the same will be true in 2020.

 

[Kent C]

the BEST GRILLED CHEESE sandwich of all time. They are called "croq monsieurs." I forget what it means exactly.

"Mister crunch" :- )

Croque-Monsieur Recipe

 

[Katdarling]

I have no idea how many of you have, or read, "NextDoor", but mine blew up like a wild run to see Aliens in Nevada. Yes, this week, VAPING came up as a discussion (ha ha..... far from a discussion).

There were MANY bizarro posts along the road, but my fave was, "Let's bun all vaping everything."

I agree.

 

[Jman8]

Bottom line, the whole PMTA process is a moving target, and represents millions of $$ to complete. And then there is no guarantee that it will be approved.

Only BT & BP can meet this financial burden, and perhaps some Chinese players who might be subsidized by their government. Everyone else is shut out............ It is even speculated that JUUL wont meet the burden, if nothing more than (and especially) for political reasons, the FDA will pick apart their application and deny it.

I somewhat don't even see why companies we love/trust are playing along with FDA, knowing they are likely to get screwed by them. Seems to me there is a war going on that is escalating, and all that you wrote is indication of that escalation. I don't believe I have solutions to what ails us going forward, but would be wonderful if the current players could participate in underground market and just bypass FDA. Yes, they'd have to be way more discreet than they're used to, and stand to lose money from what they make now. But what that market will need is suppliers who have high standards/good business ethics. Even more, the ability to provide products that us consumers will surely wants, keep coming back for.

 

[Jman8]

The article quoted that the Center for Disease Control said the "vaping associated illness" (new term) could be linked to diacetyl for causing "hundreds" of cases.

Well, if the CDC said it, then it's got to be true.

 

[Nermal]

Ban flavor eliquid but then BT comes out with this !!! ... is going on!! Kids are gonna love this.

I'm kind of hoping you made that up. I'm also hoping you don't really have that much free time.

 

[DarrenMG]

Flavor bans to "protect the children" is such BULL

It's illegal for under 18 (or 21 depending on where you are) to purchase e-cigarettes.
(Same as alcohol)
We have the laws in place already.

Yes, it is not the job of the government to take over parenting duties, but speaking of alcohol use -

CDC - Fact Sheets-Underage Drinking - Alcohol

Once again, just another example of if this really had anything to do with 'saving the kids', there are many more high priority causes of teen harm to go after than the recent spat of 'vaping' illnesses, that are really not due to vaping anyway.

 

[stols001]

Did a quick search I think like the cigarettes are real the smoke is not. I would have checked Marlboro's site but they required me to register to access it and I was like, "NO WAY." They are worse than Scientology when it comes to solicitations.

Anna

 

[Katya]

Bottom line, the whole PMTA process is a moving target, and represents millions of $$ to complete. And then there is no guarantee that it will be approved.

Only BT & BP can meet this financial burden, and perhaps some Chinese players who might be subsidized by their government. Everyone else is shut out............ It is even speculated that JUUL wont meet the burden, if nothing more than (and especially) for political reasons, the FDA will pick apart their application and deny it.

FDA's main and only goal has always been to destroy vaping from that day in 2010 when they started seizing shipments of e-cigs from China. We were saved by the courts (Sottera vs. FDA), thank you Judge Leon... But they never gave up. So they came up with those ridiculous deeming regs, which we all knew were designed not to make vaping safer, but to annihilate it. Congress didn't help, even though bills like Cole/Bishop tried. I was hoping (and I wasn't alone) that the new administration and Gottlieb would do something--like throw away the whole bloody thing and start again. Or at least move that idiotic grandfather date of February 2007 and ease the burden of the PMTA process to make it realistic and somewhat doable for manufacturers...

Never really happened. We just got a 2-year reprieve--completely meaningless if the grandfather date stays as it is. So now what? Is it really over? We're back to 2-piece and 3-piece cigalikes? All that beautiful new technology developed after February 2007 gone from the market? Can they really do this?

On the other hand, there were several Chinese flavored eliquids (Ruyan, Dekang?) on the market then--don't they have to be grandfathered in by the same rule????

I'm totally depressed.

 

[Rossum]

I somewhat don't even see why companies we love/trust are playing along with FDA, knowing they are likely to get screwed by them. Seems to me there is a war going on that is escalating, and all that you wrote is indication of that escalation. I don't believe I have solutions to what ails us going forward, but would be wonderful if the current players could participate in underground market and just bypass FDA. Yes, they'd have to be way more discreet than they're used to, and stand to lose money from what they make now. But what that market will need is suppliers who have high standards/good business ethics. Even more, the ability to provide products that us consumers will surely wants, keep coming back for.

I think China, Inc will happily ignore the FDA. Unfortunately, their standards and business ethics are questionable.

 

[mikepetro]

I somewhat don't even see why companies we love/trust are playing along with FDA, knowing they are likely to get screwed by them. Seems to me there is a war going on that is escalating, and all that you wrote is indication of that escalation. I don't believe I have solutions to what ails us going forward, but would be wonderful if the current players could participate in underground market and just bypass FDA. Yes, they'd have to be way more discreet than they're used to, and stand to lose money from what they make now. But what that market will need is suppliers who have high standards/good business ethics. Even more, the ability to provide products that us consumers will surely wants, keep coming back for.

The risk to such companies would be too great. The Feds would ruin their lives if they got caught.