Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[sofarsogood]

How about this. FDA is foot dragging to give Iqos time to come to market. As that approaches the pending regulations/restrictions put impossible business risks on vape companies. The owners start to cut and run. Iqos is already FDA approved. When it hits the market FDA and states can say, no reason to allow vaping because an FDA approved alternative is available. No matter that heat not burn probably emits 10x the bad stuff compared to ecigs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Iqos refills are nothing more than a pack of cigarettes, probably with modified tobacco blend. They cost the same to make, on existing rolling machings, they can be priced the same as cigarettes and, most importantly, taxed the same as cigarettes. Of course the states are thrilled with this possibility so get rid of vaping and get those exsmokers back paying taxes. The states with the highest cigarette taxes are over represented on the ban list.

I was paying $3,000 a year to smoke a carton a week. In it's place I vape 2400 ml per year, 200 a month. Cost of ingredients, $24 (twentyfour dollars). The states hate vaping. Look at them during their press conferences, it's obvious. They don't care about us because they are too distracted by all that tax money we are unjustly denying them.

May be what's needed for a bit of leverage is to threaten that if there is interference with access to ecig products 13 million vapers will make sure Iqos and similar products are a massive failure.

 

[Rossum]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Iqos refills are nothing more than a pack of cigarettes, probably with modified tobacco blend. They cost the same to make, on existing rolling machings,

The tobacco looks to be more heavily processed an I doubt the Heet sticks can be made on existing rolling machines.

they can be priced the same as cigarettes and, most importantly, taxed the same as cigarettes.

Yep....

 

[f1vefour]

Speaking of IQOS I read this in an article and wonder how it is they can make this claim.

The company says on its website the product is not risk-free, but offers less risk of harm compared with smoking tobacco products.

Philip Morris quietly brings IQOS to U.S. amid vaping uproar

If an e-cigarette manufacturer makes this claim the FDA gets in an uproar.

Also what does this even mean?

Altria also won’t market the product to those that vape. Like non-smokers, adult users of vape products can enter the store, but won’t be given a trial or a chance to purchase the product, Sutton said.

 

[Eskie]

Speaking of IQOS I read this in an article and wonder how it is they can make this claim.



Philip Morris quietly brings IQOS to U.S. amid vaping uproar

If an e-cigarette manufacturer makes this claim the FDA gets in an uproar.

Also what does this even mean?

They can make the claim as they filed for and received approval as a modified harm reduction tobacco product. The non-smoker thing sounds like they're trying to "act responsibly" and they're lumping vapers in there as vaping isn't smoking tobacco. Maybe they should remind the FDA about that.

 

[Rossum]

They can make the claim as they filed for and received approval as a modified harm reduction tobacco product.

Filed for, yes. But their MRTP has not been approved.

 

[AttyPops]

No idea who this guy is or how much pull he has.

US lawmaker introduces bill cutting nicotine in e-cigarettes amid teen vaping epidemic

It would allow the Food and Drug Administration to lower the cap even more to make e-cigarettes minimally addictive or not addictive at all.

Great. Max nicotine .00000000000000001% by law.

Idiots.

 

[DavidOck]

Hard to tell without reading the bill. But probably not. Nothing they've done yet is limited in that way. Flavor bans aren't just for Juul and other closed systems, or the shops wouldn't be closing.

 

[zoiDman]

"It would allow the Food and Drug Administration to lower the cap even more to make e-cigarettes minimally addictive or not addictive at all."

...

I believe the FDA currently has the Authority to Set mg/ml levels Lower than 20mg/ml without this House Bill.

 

[bombastinator]

I find this thread incredibly frustrating. Personal limitations perhaps.
It’s where all the critically useful information is, but my browser is listing it as 1245 pages long. It’s really really hard for me to access effectively. It needs to be maintained because it’s a real timeline of what actually happened. I worry that useful info doesn’t get out of it though.

 

[bombastinator]

I believe the FDA currently has the Authority to Set mg/ml levels Lower than 20mg/ml without this House Bill.

They can do it to cigarettes too. Iirc it was actually threatened once by the previous FDA head just before he left.

 

[zoiDman]

No idea who this guy is or how much pull he has.

US lawmaker introduces bill cutting nicotine in e-cigarettes amid teen vaping epidemic

Did our friend Raja happen to Release any Supporting Documentation of say Peer Reviewed Studies showing Quantitatively what would be the Projected drop in Teen Use? Verses what would be the Decrease in Effectiveness of those trying to Quit Smoking if a 20mg/ml Cap was placed on e-Cigarettes?

Or is this one of those We have to Pass It and then See What Happens pieces of Legislation?

 

[AttyPops]

They can do it to cigarettes too. Iirc it was actually threatened once by the previous FDA head just before he left.

That's been my assertion all along....they'll go after the smokes.

 

[DaveP]

Wow. So you're even more pessimistic than me in a way. You could just say "we're doomed".

if the switch to vaping eventually does away with tobacco, then our rich uncle may find a way to tax our vapes. Somebody's got to make up for lower MSA payments as tobacco use wanes.

It does seem that government is looking at how to recover MSA payments as BT loses market share.

 

[LoveVanilla]

Couldn't post last night so follow-up to post a couple pages back.

Bernie Sanders Is A Vote For Vaping

Strongly agree that Sanders is the only candidate who will seriously challenge the corporate oligarchy now controlling OUR nation (e.g. big pharma and big tobacco). Why else do you think Juul was consulted on a flavor ban and their response given more weight than millions of citizens?

 

[bombastinator]

if the switch to vaping eventually does away with tobacco, then our rich uncle may find a way to tax our vapes. Somebody's got to make up for lower MSA payments as tobacco use wanes.

It does seem that government is looking at how to recover MSA payments as BT loses market share.

I still don’t have enough information on which states are how exposed regarding the tobacco bonds stuff. Finding out what the particulars are for Minnesota is on my list but I need to get my personal house in order before I go knocking on the door of the attorney general. It’s an affair that is dragging out for me far longer than I would like. If there is anyone else in Minnesota currently capable I urge you to do so. It’s something I would like to have done nearly a month ago but I still don’t have my bits in a box and I don’t even have a good timeline on when they will be there :/

 

[Rossum]

if the switch to vaping eventually does away with tobacco, then our rich nearly bankrupt uncle may has to find a way to tax our vapes.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Rossum]

I believe the FDA currently has the Authority to Set mg/ml levels Lower than 20mg/ml without this House Bill.

Of course they have the authority, but also the discretion not to. This bill would require them to.

 

[Baditude]

Bernie Sanders Is A Vote For Vaping

Strongly agree that Sanders is the only candidate who will seriously challenge the corporate oligarchy now controlling OUR nation (e.g. big pharma and big tobacco). Why else do you think Juul was consulted on a flavor ban and their response given more weight than millions of citizens?

Bernies Sanders just had a heart attack and is nearly 80 years old. He still doesn't look too well.

 

[bombastinator]

Bernies Sanders just had a heart attack and is nearly 80 years old. He still doesn't look too well.

Couldn't post last night so follow-up to post a couple pages back.

Bernie Sanders Is A Vote For Vaping

Strongly agree that Sanders is the only candidate who will seriously challenge the corporate oligarchy now controlling OUR nation (e.g. big pharma and big tobacco). Why else do you think Juul was consulted on a flavor ban and their response given more weight than millions of citizens?

Sanders interests me. I do wish he was a younger man.

The last information I saw said he got two stents. That’s not a lot as heart surgeries go. A triple bypass would have been a lot. 20 years ago an open heart surgery generally bought a patient about ten years of good activity and mental acuity before they degraded. Given that timeline he would just about have time to be elected, serve two terms, and then die.
I suspect that number has gone up. I don’t have data though. I suspect we’re going to have to wait for him to recover from the operation which will take some time and reassess.

 

[zoiDman]

Of course they have the authority, but also the discretion not to. This bill would require them to.

Yeah... I thought that was kinda Implied.

But what seems to be the Fundamental Question is do we want Congress to be making Public Health Policies based on what appears to be Little or No Scientific basis?

No Matter How Hard the Knee Jerks.