Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[englishmick]

It's interesting that this clear distinction between pods and tanks is in line with what Trump said. It obviously can't have been tailored to match Trump's latest speech since they came out at the same time. Maybe Trump has been leaning on them to take this track for a while, or maybe the FDA came to this conclusion independently and Trump was reflecting what they were about to release. Either way they are publicly in agreement which means this policy direction might be more stable and long lasting.

 

[Bronze]

Yep.......

View attachment 861175

 

[zoiDman]

A little more info from HHS about how it will be enforced:

https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020...ed-flavored-cartridge-based-e-cigarettes.html

From the Link...

Beginning 30 days from the publication of the notice of availability of this guidance in the Federal Register, the FDA intends to prioritize enforcement against these illegally marketed ENDS products by focusing on the following groups of products that do not have premarket authorization:

• Any flavored, cartridge-based ENDS product (other than a tobacco- or menthol-flavored ENDS product);
• All other ENDS products for which the manufacturer has failed to take (or is failing to take) adequate measures to prevent minors’ access; and
• Any ENDS product that is targeted to minors or likely to promote use of ENDS by minors.

---

The 1st Bullet Point is is Statutory language I understand.

The Next Two are Subjective and Arbitrary. And what gets Regulatory Lawyers salivating. On Both Sides.

 

[Vape Magoo]

They have a new Series-B. And it's in stock.

SERIES-B DNA 75W Vape Mod | E Cigarette | JAC Vapour

Yeah, I was just at the final confirmation at checkout for 3 of them. I thought they were basically the Sandstorm only black. But noticed they are 23mm and the Sandstorm is 25mm.

I guess I will monitor and hope the Sandstorm shows up again at a good price.

 

[mikepetro]

At least the news is acknowledging this:

The ban has little to do with the vaping-related lung illness, administration officials said Thursday. Azar said the Trump administration sees the lung illness from vaping as a “separate issue” because most people who are sick are thought by public health officials to have smoked THC-based vaping products.

 

[BigPappa]

At least the news is acknowledging this:

Yeah, but most of the media either buries that information somewhere in the article, or in most cases they completely omit that information.

 

[JustWondering1]

The one thing that is very different about this Guidance document, vs previous ones, is the emphasis on teen vaping and cartridge systems. That language was repeated over and over.

An optimistic view, I know, but it definitely appears that the emphasis will be going after the pod systems, and their distribution avenues. Logistically, the resources of the FDA are clearly limited. They cant target the entirety of vaping all at once.

PMTA enforcement is clearly discretionary. I think the future of open systems will be determined by the teen vaping statistics in 2021. Those numbers will make or break the rest of the market.

Funny, many of us thought (myself included) that open systems were going to get obliterated, and that Pods would be all that was left. It appears the exact opposite is occurring.

Alas, teens are resourceful, I remember how resourceful I was. If they choose to vape, no regs will stop them. The law damn sure didnt stop me from defying chemistry.......

I agree with what you said above. Kids who are addicted to nicotine and love their pods will absolutely find a way to make the more complicated open systems work for them. What I hope, however, is that the more complicated open systems will be less attractive to kids who have never vaped or smoked.

 

[JustWondering1]

I just don't trust that the numbers given are going to be accurate.
Many have thought last year's numbers were skewed against vaping...

Good point!

 

[BigPappa]

I am just too lazy to keep up. My understanding of what is coming in May means,
I can't buy things like:
Lost Vape Paranormal
Digiflavor Serin 2

But I can still buy:
PG
VG
Nicotine 100mg
TPA, FA, FW, Cap, WF, Inawera.....
Cotton, coil wire

Is that correct?

I think being able to get your hands on 100mg nic would be extremely unlikely. That's why many of us have stocked up for a lifetime.

Are you not stocking up on 100mg nicotine?

 

[BigPappa]

I agree with what you said above. Kids who are addicted to nicotine and love their pods will absolutely find a way to make the more complicated open systems work for them. What I hope, however, is that the more complicated open systems will be less attractive to kids who have never vaped or smoked.

When I was a kid, there was always someone around who was willing to take the time to show you how to roll a joint, pack a bowl, use a water pipe, fashion a bowl out of an apple or tinfoil...etc.. probably the same thing with filling a tank or changing a coil.

 

[Vape Magoo]

Are you not stocking up on 100mg nicotine?

That's tricky for me, I might be leaving the country and that just is not something I can throw in storage. My daughter could store it for me in the freezer, but she is on the opposite coast. I figure I can wait until April to decide what to do and also have hope they will leave nicotine alone.

I actually have some of my backup mods and tanks stored at my daughters, but those can be shipped or flown. A litter of nicotine may be a problem depending on the regulations.

 

[JustWondering1]

I have 11 Evolv chip mods (in service/backups), but have no idea how long they'll last, but not a lifetime.

I have backup tanks, but no idea how long they last...

Looks like the Evolv mods I like are off the market. JAC Vapor has a black B-Series but the Sandstorm is gone and they have nothing else DNA. I have 4 VT75 Nano's, wished I got more (my favorite), are discontinued. The Paranormal is slim pickens' and not in a style I want.

Looks like the Siren 2 is almost sold out every where and whats left is a bit more expensive then what I was paying. The clones are only $14, I heard they were good but have no personal experience.

I can get 3 JAC's for just under $200, just kills me to stock up on stuff with no guarantee really.

Is it worth it? Will they last? I hate wasting money, hate getting caught with my pants down more though.

My e juice is down to 2mg, I guess I should check out 1mg next month, I may be able to go without or at least not require a lot in case it really does go to $1,000 a litter which seems more than abusive.

Decisions, decisions.............

I am hoping they at least drop mod boxes, UL certified sure, but whats the point of the FDA regulating them?

I am jealous of your Evolv stash! If I were you, I would think about getting more vape gear to be safe. I've heard great things about the Siren 2 clones too. Get some Jac's if you want, but if you want your money to go further, look into the GeekVape Aegis Solo. It's an incredible, single battery, waterproof mod. It has many, many fans here in this forum and it's one of my favorite mods I've ever had. Of course, I also recommend you get some nicotine too, and you won't get a better deal than Heartland's house nic.

https://www.fasttech.com/p/9693515

Nicotine Solution - 100mg Liter

 

[JustWondering1]

That's tricky for me, I might be leaving the country and that just is not something I can throw in storage. My daughter could store it for me in the freezer, but she is on the opposite coast. I figure I can wait until April to decide what to do and also have hope they will leave nicotine alone.

If I were you I would be afraid there will be crazy price increases by the time April rolls around, or there may be shortages as well.

 

[BigPappa]

That's tricky for me, I might be leaving the country and that just is not something I can throw in storage. My daughter could store it for me in the freezer, but she is on the opposite coast. I figure I can wait until April to decide what to do and also have hope they will leave nicotine alone.

You could order it and just have it shipped to her place to save you the cost of paying for shipping to her. (Heartland Vapes is free over $50 and they have nic for $44.99/liter, $42.99 if you get 4)

 

[Vape Magoo]

You could order it and just have it shipped to her place to save you the cost of paying for shipping to her. (Heartland Vapes is free over $50 and they have nic for $44.99/liter, $42.99 if you get 4)

I meant a regulatory issue for her to ship to me at a date that is past May (or any time they decide to become restrictive on the sale).

 

[BigPappa]

I meant a regulatory issue for her to ship to me at a date that is past May (or any time they decide to become restrictive on the sale).

Yeah, I don't know how that would work... you would think it would be ok as there is no sale/purchase going on. You are simply "moving" your own personal items from one address to another. And most enforcement will likely be focused on just the sale of product. Like right nw you can grow your own tobacco, you just cannot sell it.

 

[BigPappa]

If I were you I would be afraid there will be crazy price increases by the time April rolls around, or there may be shortages as well.

True... There is that tax bill on the floor which would increase the cost of 1 liter of 100mg by $2780.

 

[Myrany]

That's tricky for me, I might be leaving the country and that just is not something I can throw in storage. My daughter could store it for me in the freezer, but she is on the opposite coast. I figure I can wait until April to decide what to do and also have hope they will leave nicotine alone.

I actually have some of my backup mods and tanks stored at my daughters, but those can be shipped or flown. A litter of nicotine may be a problem depending on the regulations.

I know this concept is not popular here on ECF but one thing to keep at the back of your mind. If all goes wrong and you do not have enough nic. You might consider slapping on a nic patch and vaping 0 nic. Nic need taken care of. All the other habit parts handled by vaping zero nic.

I have long had this in my head as my extreme emergency solution.

 

[BigPappa]

I know this concept is not popular here on ECF but one thing to keep at the back of your mind. If all goes wrong and you do not have enough nic. You might consider slapping on a nic patch and vaping 0 nic. Nic need taken care of. All the other habit parts handled by vaping zero nic.

I have long had this in my head as my extreme emergency solution.

The problem with the patch for me was that it disperses the nicotine at an even level for the most part, unlike smoking or vaping where you get it in a short window of time. When I fly later this month I am bringing nicotine gum with me as I think it will mimic the hit of nicotine a little better...

plus I will be sneaking hits off a pod system with double the nicotine level I normally use. lol (I have the window seat and my wife and daughter have the two seats next to me, so I will stealth vape and hold it in till it's gone. lol)

 

[Myrany]

The problem with the patch for me was that it disperses the nicotine at an even level for the most part, unlike smoking or vaping where you get it in a short window of time. When I fly later this month I am bringing nicotine gum with me as I think it will mimic the hit of nicotine a little better...

plus I will be sneaking hits off a pod system with double the nicotine level I normally use. lol (I have the window seat and my wife and daughter have the two seats next to me, so I will stealth vape and hold it in till it's gone. lol)

Oh I agree it is not a perfect solution. It is however a solution and in an extreme situation might well work.