Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
- Thread starter Oliver
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This stood out...
"The Chinese government has also proposed restricting vape exports from China to products allowed in destination countries. It’s still unclear if this provision will be adopted (or enforced), but as written the rule would prevent manufacturers from shipping products not specifically authorized in the countries receiving the shipments."
"The Chinese vaping product export business is huge—$15.6 billion, according to the Shanghai Daily—and is responsible for three million jobs in the country. Chinese research firm iiMedia says there are more than 170,000 e-cigarette businesses in China. Rules preventing open-system products from being shipped to the United States (because the FDA has not specifically authorized their sale) would shutter many of those manufacturing businesses and put many employees out of work."
and this...
More than half of Chinese men smoke cigarettes (26.6 percent of all adults), according to the World Health Organization. Nearly as many people in China smoke as the entire U.S. population—more than 300 million. Relatively few Chinese residents vape compared to the number that smoke."
China BT, like BT everywhere, is very highly motivated to maintain its vast Global Empire.
Money, money, money... Money.
That's a lot of money China will lose out on if the Chinese government does decide to enforce the export ban. I wonder if the Chinese will move manufacturing to a country like Vietnam. Either way, my bet would be that China will stay in the vape business.
I suspect China has likely thought this through. No country wants to lose ~$16 billion yearly.
They could try that but because the US has good relations with Vietnam our Gov could put the pressure on Vietnam to restrict vape gear exports to only those that have been approved.
See the US Department of State page on U.S. Relations With Vietnam
They most certainly will. But, they've also seen more and more countries regulate, or ban, vaping. Perhaps they have seen the writing on the wall and are prepping for a major slimming down of their vape industry.
IDK, we will see.
Zoom Out a little.
If China was to Restrict/Ban Exports of e-Cigarettes, what would be the Net Effect on Smoking Rates Globally? And who are the Major Exporting Countries of both Raw Tobacco and Finished Cigarettes which fill demand?
When it comes to China, it is best to think of them as One Large Multi-Divisional Corporation. Where individual Market Sectors maybe be distinct or even appear to be in Direct Competition with each other. But each is actually under the Same Umbrella.
So the Lines of what is Profits and Loss can many times be Blurred.
Absolutely, traditional tobacco in China is a $150B industry, vaping about $17B, so yes, if you need to pick one it will be traditional tobacco, even without considering that the Chinese government owns traditional tobacco.
But wherever there is demand, economics says that supply will be created. So if China walks away from vaping, then Mexico, Vietnam, Brazil, Europe (UK, Germany, Italy) or some other country will step up. $17B will garner a lot of interest. Same as with illegal drugs, the demand is there, someone will try to supply it.
The problem with the Deeming law, IMHO, is that it is unenforceable. Well, one of the problems, let's be honest, there are a lot of problems with Deeming. There is no way to stop imports of vape gear, Border Patrol just doesn't have the manpower to do it. FDA doesn't have the manpower to process or enforce PMTA. And the ATFE doesn't have the manpower to enforce PACT. IMHO, it is kind of an empty threat. The whole thing is a joke.
But the problem is that it keeps availability/accessibility really low because it's seen as a threat (regardless of it's magnitude). They don't have to put a lot of effort and resources into enforcement, they just have to flex their muscles once in a while to "show 'em who's boss" and make companies spend money they can't afford and/or go out of business. And due to low accessibility, some vapers will just go back to cigarettes.
Like any law restricting things that people want, it just makes them more difficult and expensive to get. See Prohibition and the War on (some) Drugs as graphic illustrations of this. Anyone who really wanted to consume alcohol or illicit drugs found a way to do so, despite our beneficent betters' attempts to prevent it. With vaping, it's the same question: How badly does a person want to?
Yes, and that is what makes it a joke. Why our government insists on passing laws and regulations that they can't or won't enforce is beyond me. If you can't or won't enforce, then save yourself the trouble and don't pass the law. The bigger issue with the vaping law is that it is such a low priority that the agencies responsible for enforcement will never even get to it. The FDA, ATFE and Border Patrol all have much bigger issues than vaping. They don't even care about vaping. It really makes you wonder if our politicians have brain damage of some sort.
Think about it - I am a hypothetical multi billionaire {He does exist initials MB}, one of the richest people in the World, and I hate tobacco, nicotine, or anything related, such as vaping - And I play for control, want to control politicians, and what they vote for. I use concealed 'political pacs" and you are running for office You need my money and you will vote the way I want or you will not get it. Enough said ?
Probably not physical brain damage, but I'd argue that a desire to control how other people live their lives, particularly when the only possible harm those life choices is to those who engage in them, should be considered a mental illness.
Not everything.May 5th, 2016, this thread began. How things have changed since then.
Go Leafs!
I suppose this has something to do with sports, rather than a yearning for the return of Autumn.
So tired of winter in general, though this one has been mild. LGB
So tired of winter in general, though this one has been mild. LGB
In a word, incumbency. Because for all too many behind their socially altruistic pronouncements is an egotistical ambition that drives them, the paramount purpose of agency…
That most delicious of all privileges -- spending other people's money. —John Randolph of Roanoke
Of this dilemma, I can think of no other significant example in human history where the politically powerful and propertied waged a war to wrest power from tyranny and relinquish their control instead to grace the people at large with the guarantees of individual rights and self representation.
Within that unique compact and us, the promise of true brotherhood — if we can keep it.
It will not come from government.
Good luck.
Looks like NJOY got approved today.
Closed system, tobacco flavors only
FDA Issues Marketing Decisions on NJOY Ace E-Cigarette Products
Closed system, tobacco flavors only
FDA Issues Marketing Decisions on NJOY Ace E-Cigarette Products
Good to Hear. In that marginal, Better than Nothing, type of way.
I had heard that it has been a Done Deal for awhile. But that the Administration was looking for the right PR Window to allow the FDA to announce.
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