Proposed FDA Ban

[Rossum]

But that is Based on tobacco Taxation Revenue Streams remaining Static. Which they Won't.

And US, as well as other Countries, Health Organizations maintaining a position that e-Cigarettes pose a similar risk as Smoking. Which they Haven't.

The Only thing holding back that Slogan is to Level the Books Taxation wise on vaping to Smoking. And if you have followed this, like I know you have, you have seen this leveling Progressing at a Geometrically Constant Rate.

"Tobacco Settlement" monies aren't taxes per se. But like taxes, tobacco settlement monies are dependent on actual cigarette sales. So vape goods would actually have to be taxed at a higher rate than cigarettes for the total revenue that governments receive to come out the same when people switch from smoking to vaping.

All I can say to government is: Good luck with that. Vaping will be extremely difficult to tax at the kind of rate necessary for it to be revenue-neutral with cigarettes, especially in those jurisdictions that currently have very high tax rates on cigs.

 

[zoiDman]

"Tobacco Settlement" monies aren't taxes per se. But like taxes, tobacco settlement monies are dependent on actual cigarette sales. So vape goods would actually have to be taxed at a higher rate than cigarettes for the total revenue that governments receive to come out the same when people switch from smoking to vaping.

All I can say to government is: Good luck with that. Vaping will be extremely difficult to tax at the kind of rate necessary for it to be revenue-neutral with cigarettes, especially in those jurisdictions that currently have very high tax rates on cigs.

If the Feds can Tax reserved parking spaces of Churches and Non-Profits, I'm sure they would have No Problem cranking up a Tax on e-Cigarettes/e-Liquids.

And isn't that Part of the purpose of the Deeming of e-Cigarettes?

Shake Out the Market. Get everything into a Nice, Standardized Packaging. And then Slap a Tobacco Tax Stamp on it just like a Pack of Smokes.

You could argue that the Total Revenue wouldn't need to be as high Cigarettes because e-Cigarettes cause less harm. So they put Less Financial Burden on a Health System. But that's for the Accounts/Politicians to debate.

The Long and the Short of it is there are Many in Washington that believe "a Buck a Day" for e-Cigarette use is where we should be. And when Programs are getting Harder and Harder to fund, and when you're 20 Trillion (that's Trillion with a "T") in the hole already, opposition to a Federal e-Cigarette/e-Liquid Tax is waning.

 

[stols001]

I don't know but I do wish our government would just COME OUT and say it's communism, at least in some areas. I really do. It would a) make me and probably a bunch of other folks less crazy and b) if they were just more upfront about it, well the actual outrage (if it were not enough to topple things and honestly, probably not) they government could stop with the bogus arguments and say, "I'm sorry we are deciding what we want for you. We will stop giving dumb, useless and fallacious arguments about stuff to fluster you, just wait in line for you bread and Blu."

I am mostly serious. Mostly. I mean I hope the government DOESN'T as it is somewhat predictable vs. the vague but sinister behests of a communist regime.

I just plan for the worst like always. Sigh.

Anna

 

[Rossum]

And isn't that Part of the purpose of the Deeming of e-Cigarettes?

Shake Out the Market. Get everything into a Nice, Standardized Packaging. And then Slap a Tobacco Tax Stamp on it just like a Pack of Smokes.

Nice, standardized packaging like Juul pods?

Yet Juul is the the FDA's favorite whipping boy, while they're leaving us DIYers pretty much alone. Go figure.

Speaking of Juul, here in PA, if someone goes through a pod a day, they're giving well over $1.00 a day to the State. (40% tax).

The Long and the Short of it is there are Many in Washington that believe "a Buck a Day" for e-Cigarette use is where we should be. And when Programs are getting Harder and Harder to fund, and when you're 20 Trillion (that's Trillion with a "T") in the hole already, opposition to a Federal e-Cigarette/e-Liquid Tax is waning.

Closer to $22 Trillion.

 

[CMD-Ky]

I no longer plan for the worst and hope for the best. After digesting the news, I just gave up the "hope" part.

In a country of 300 Million one could find at least 455 who are more honest and qualified than the 455 we have chosen.

I don't know but I do wish our government would just COME OUT and say it's communism, at least in some areas. I really do. It would a) make me and probably a bunch of other folks less crazy and b) if they were just more upfront about it, well the actual outrage (if it were not enough to topple things and honestly, probably not) they government could stop with the bogus arguments and say, "I'm sorry we are deciding what we want for you. We will stop giving dumb, useless and fallacious arguments about stuff to fluster you, just wait in line for you bread and Blu."

I am mostly serious. Mostly. I mean I hope the government DOESN'T as it is somewhat predictable vs. the vague but sinister behests of a communist regime.

I just plan for the worst like always. Sigh.

Anna

 

[NolaMel]

Because Big Business (such as BT and BP) has far far too much influence over legislation here..

Our politicians go into office upper middle class Americans in largest part, and leave office multi millionaires..

How do you suppose they do that on 100 grand or so a year?

Yeah... BB has far too much sway over legislation, and some of the worst seems to be the pharmaceutical lobby and big tobacco both of whom rely on smokers who never actually succeed in quitting.

Forgive me if someone already posted this.... an explanation of BT/BP and the $$ trail
THE 510 REPORT WITH GRIMM GREEN - Vapings Biggest Enemy PART1
Edit: ignore, @Baditude beat me to it. Back to coffee and catching up before I post again

 

[Rossum]

In a country of 300 Million one could find at least 455 who are more honest and qualified than the 455 we have chosen.

Sure. But would they want the job?

 

[zoiDman]

Nice, standardized packaging like Juul pods?

Yet Juul is the the FDA's favorite whipping boy, while they're leaving us DIYers pretty much alone. Go figure.

Speaking of Juul, here in PA, if someone goes through a pod a day, they're giving well over $1.00 a day to the State. (40% tax).


Closer to $22 Trillion.

It Doesn't have to just be Pods. e-Liquids can easily fall under Jack Booted Foot of Federal Taxation.

Limit the amount of mg/ml a Consumer can buy, Limit the Size of the Container, then Bingo Bango - Slap a Tobacco Stamp with a Stylized Holographic Image of the current FDA Commission on Packaging and away you go.

Sometimes, we tend to think about Possibilities as the e-Cigarette market is Today. And not as it will be in a Fully FDA Regulated Market that we are moving to.

 

[CMD-Ky]

Sure. But would they want the job?

Probably not.

 

[Rossum]

It Doesn't have to just be Pods. e-Liquids can easily fall under Jack Booted Foot of Federal Taxation.

Limit the amount of mg/ml a Consumer can buy, Limit the Size of the Container, then Bingo Bango - Slap a Tobacco Stamp with a Stylized Holographic Image of the current FDA Commission on Packaging and away you go.

Sometimes, we tend to think about Possibilities as the e-Cigarette market is Today. And not as it will be in a Fully FDA Regulated Market that we are moving to.

In that case, there won't be just one market, but two, or even three.

Of course you'll have the FDA-approved, heavily taxed, formal market.

But you'll also have an "informal" one. Just look at the size of that (over 50%!) in those jurisdictions that have the highest cigarette taxes like NYC. Even a continent-size market like Australia with extreme tobacco taxes has it (40%).

And lastly, you'll have people like me who refuse to participate in either. My "market" looks like this:

Spoiler

 

[zoiDman]

And lastly, you'll have people like me who refuse to participate in either. My "market" looks like this:

Spoiler

Yeah... Because of My actions, I'm in the "Not One Thin Dime" group also.

All I'm really saying is look at what has gone on in the EU.

If the FDA followed a Regulatory Framework of limitations of mg/ml for Nicotine sales to consumers, and Limitations of Retail e-Liquid Volumes, e-Liquid Taxation at the Federal level doesn't seem all that Difficult.

 

[zoiDman]

BTW - You want something that gives you Sleepless Nights.

Think if things Change in 2020. And New "Leadership" takes the Oval Office. And that New "Leadership" appoints someone like Dick Durbin as the New HHS Secretary.

 

[Rossum]

All I'm really saying is look at what has gone on in the EU.

It doesn't seem to be that much about taxes there. E.g. there's at least one vendor in the UK selling 10ml for £1. At the current exchange rate, that would be less than $4.00 for a 30 ml bottle.

 

[CMD-Ky]

My Gawd man, you have a cruel streak in you to put such a thought into my brain!

BTW - You want something that gives you Sleepless Nights.

Think if things Change in 2020. And New "Leadership" takes the Oval Office. And that New "Leadership" appoints someone like Dick Durbin as the New HHS Secretary.

 

[zoiDman]

It doesn't seem to be that much about taxes there. E.g. there's at least one vendor in the UK selling 10ml for £1. At the current exchange rate, that would be less than $4.00 for a 30 ml bottle.

Yeah... The EU seems to Place Public Health at lest on the List when it comes to e-Cigarette use. Whereas I'm Not sure how much weight that plays in Our System?

And if it Does, it is Way Down on the List.

 

[zoiDman]

My Gawd man, you have a cruel streak in you to put such a thought into my brain!

Guilty as Charged.

LOL.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

BTW - You want something that gives you Sleepless Nights.

Think if things Change in 2020. And New "Leadership" takes the Oval Office. And that New "Leadership" appoints someone like Dick Durbin as the New HHS Secretary.

Sorry I had to like your post. I can't seem to find the Scary button.

 

[stols001]

No, I refuse to give up on hope. It's just not possible for me, if I had ever done that, well, I'd have been good and dead by the age of 23.

Hope's my best weapon in my back pocket. I MEAN, whenever I get crazy antsy I just imagine what it was like in, you know Plague times, when everyone was dying, but like, still. People survived. Granted, I would have been trepanned (possibly) long before that point due to talking to saints and spirts and stuff. Either that or the Village Healer or whatnot and they'd bring all the plague victims to ME. So, I'd be dead.

I'm just saying, ecigs will be pockmarked, unfortunate and the good looking ones will need to hide, but I STILL believe hope in my back pocket is going to be my best weapon as I charge, with my steed toward the White House, waving my sword, etc.

Anna

 

[DaveP]

But that is Based on Tobacco Taxation Revenue Streams remaining Static. Which they Won't.

And US, as well as other Countries, Health Organizations maintaining a position that e-Cigarettes pose a similar risk as Smoking. Which they Haven't.

The Only thing holding back that Slogan is to Level the Books Taxation wise on Vaping to Smoking. And if you have followed this, like I know you have, you have seen this leveling Progressing at a Geometrically Constant Rate.

It's a rumor mill out there. FDA as well as other health providers and agencies are saying "we don't know" but there's been no conclusive tests for their claims. It's almost as if they DO know, but don't want to see the results of testing.

If they actually discovered through actual testing that e-cigarettes pose no more harm than other chemicals affecting the atmosphere and the air we breath, then that would be another blow to tobacco taxes as more people switch from cigarettes to something safer.

E-cigarettes may have long term risks, but so far in 9 years of vaping my lungs are clear and my chest x-rays are, too. My doctor approves of my vaping and is very happy that I haven't smoked since I started vaping.

You'd think that 10W vapers like me would at least be safer than 150W vapers if there were risks.

 

[keelalagirl55]

BTW - You want something that gives you Sleepless Nights.

Think if things Change in 2020. And New "Leadership" takes the Oval Office. And that New "Leadership" appoints someone like Dick Durbin as the New HHS Secretary.

Now why did you have to go and do something like this???.....nightmares are a-comin tonight