People in this country make big money off of attacking others. It will get worse. When I grew up we were aghast at the thought that russians couldn't even go to church where they wanted. Everyday I read in the news now how someones's rights over trivial matters become a jailable offense. All you have to do is think differently, never thought it would happen here. There is only strength in numbers and this doesn't only apply to ecigs.
Right of entitlement?
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So people like one friend of mine that could not even go into the local hospital while her father was in there because of the air freshener they use, or can't enter wal-mart around the holidays because of cinnamon candles near the door shouldn't leave her house?
Lack of trust is a big issue:
I want good consumer protections - I and many other vapers do not trust FDA or the larger govt to regulate e-cigs responsibly; based on statements and legislation already in existence, the goal of e-cig regulation thus far has not been to protect consumers, but to control the market in favor of established commercial interests.
I support just taxation of e-cigs, or 'paying my fair share' - I and many other vapers do not trust that the legislators, state or federal, will tax e-cigs in a manner that is fair & reasonable; it has been fashionable in recent decades to impose enormous taxes on cigarettes, far above the rates at which most other products are taxed. Again, legislation has been written/proposed in many of the states, which would tax e-cigs at similar rates. We see that as unfair and unjust, especially since e-cigs do not have the same egregious health concerns that traditional cigarettes do.
I want good consumer protections - I and many other vapers do not trust FDA or the larger govt to regulate e-cigs responsibly; based on statements and legislation already in existence, the goal of e-cig regulation thus far has not been to protect consumers, but to control the market in favor of established commercial interests.
I support just taxation of e-cigs, or 'paying my fair share' - I and many other vapers do not trust that the legislators, state or federal, will tax e-cigs in a manner that is fair & reasonable; it has been fashionable in recent decades to impose enormous taxes on cigarettes, far above the rates at which most other products are taxed. Again, legislation has been written/proposed in many of the states, which would tax e-cigs at similar rates. We see that as unfair and unjust, especially since e-cigs do not have the same egregious health concerns that traditional cigarettes do.
WOWza. The part I agree with is that I, too, am sick of people stating that they are going to "blow huge plumes" in people's faces, vape in the library during story time, at gas stations, etc. It is annoying to hear that type of talk, so I can understand where Nancy is coming from in that respect. I can also understand when some say that because e-cigs are relatively new, not enough studies have been done to ABSOLUTELY determine if there are no negative second hand health hazards.
Vapor DOES have a scent, and it DOES bother many with that particular sensitivity. No, I am not a smoker and I don't care to relegate myself to the "smoking area," but, YES, we as a vaping group need to get the chip off of our collective shoulder and realize that many people, whether because of ignorance, prejudice or other reasoning, are not as enamored of our habits as we are.
Do I think e-cigs shoul suffer a "sin" tax? No. But I don't think beer and wine drinkers should have to pay a sin tax, either. Should we pay sales tax? Yes, and that is because as a member of society I appreciate the many good things that taxation has afforded my country.
Do I ask permission before I vape inside? Yes. Because I am courteous. In my own home, in my own car, in my own space, outside, I can vape away. The minute another person is involved in this equation, I ask.
Do I think an "in your face" approach is going to win converts to our cause? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Vapor DOES have a scent, and it DOES bother many with that particular sensitivity. No, I am not a smoker and I don't care to relegate myself to the "smoking area," but, YES, we as a vaping group need to get the chip off of our collective shoulder and realize that many people, whether because of ignorance, prejudice or other reasoning, are not as enamored of our habits as we are.
Do I think e-cigs shoul suffer a "sin" tax? No. But I don't think beer and wine drinkers should have to pay a sin tax, either. Should we pay sales tax? Yes, and that is because as a member of society I appreciate the many good things that taxation has afforded my country.
Do I ask permission before I vape inside? Yes. Because I am courteous. In my own home, in my own car, in my own space, outside, I can vape away. The minute another person is involved in this equation, I ask.
Do I think an "in your face" approach is going to win converts to our cause? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
{EDIT}
BP is well organized with DEEP pockets, they OWN senators.
Not much of an analogy.
BP is well organized with DEEP pockets, they OWN senators.
Not much of an analogy.
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That's a bit extreme, to say she should never leave the house, but whatever condition she has is very rare and the world cannot be expected to bend over backwards because of it - I bet she didn't ask walmart to to stop carrying cinnamon candles.
As to those who are saying I am giving them ammo, what about all the posts in here about people lying on insurance paperwork and stuff like that, because while it might very well be unfair that nicotine users pay more, lying to the insurance company and your employer can get you fired. Not to mention all the ammo those posts give. but yet in the last year there has been what 5 or 6 threads alone on that subject.
If a person has problems breathing in perfectly legal substances it is THEIR own problem, trying to make it someone else's problem is EPIC FAIL. If they need to live in a bubble let them.
I personally do not like drawing attention to myself, so I don't vape in public anymore. I've had to deal with too many idiots over the years. People are scared of what they don't understand. Some may even know ecigs pose no threat but they still may find it "unsightly" and try to kick you out of where ever you are. There is no legitimate argument against it. However if it attracts enough attention, people will try to get in banned in places regardless just because they don't like how it looks. It is an infuriating situation, but as vapers we need to be as discreet as possible, or more people will try to have it banned. These are people who hate seeing others enjoying themselves, and they won't rest until we are as miserable as they are.
We are making a mistake by mixing the tax/regulation issue with the vaping indoors one - people who don't vape will often be unfavorable to the idea of high taxes or excess regulation of industry, but nobody who doesn't vape will support public indoor usage.
Hate campaigns in this country are what has hurt us. People make money off this crap .Every time you turn on the TV someones is advocating for something. Advertising is becoming a joke. We all know most of their claims are non existent why do people believe the rest of it. I watch tv ads daily where death is a side effect of the medication and they expect me to worry about ecigs. Why aren't they banning Chantix.
Nobody suggested lying to the insurance companies. I did start a thread ASKING if vaping still qualified as a smoker. BIG DIFFERENCE between asking a question and flat out suggesting lying. Regardless, if people did in fact lie to their insurance company, you are correct that they could get fired, have their policy voided, or lose their job. I fail to see how this impacts you or should be any of your concern at all.
Are they entitled to visit or go to wal-mart? Do you see the problem? If you split this into two sides, the consistent theme is that some lose freedoms so others can have rights. Should the thousand people who enjoy cinnamon give it up for one person? Should people vape when others feel entitled to clear air?
In the end, majority wins. ecigs are not the majority no matter how you look at it. Until the 1960s neither were civil rights universal among all Americans either, however, a small movement grew into a large one and now we enjoy the America we have today.
In the end, not enough people understand or hate ecigs to care where most people will vape.
Can't tell if I enjoyed my time reading this thread, or wasted it... Maybe a little bit of both?
EDIT: Man, this brings back memories of the WoW general forum.
EDIT: Man, this brings back memories of the WoW general forum.
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Asking permission to vape is polite, if permission is given VAPE.
I don't see the controversy on that issue.
(LOL< I haven't read this whole thread....I may be missing something...heh)
I don't see the controversy on that issue.
(LOL< I haven't read this whole thread....I may be missing something...heh)
Show me some vids of people that just walk around and blow big plumes of vapor in other peoples face and don't get them mod smacked down their throat and I'll believe it's a problem. What ..... would go around doing that? Do you just make up these stories and believe them after you tell them often enough?
You might not have suggested it, but in many threads about that issue in this forum, yes some members have said that.
I work for an insurance company (big one too). You don't count as a smoker on your home policy, but if you have a life policy, it comes down to nicotine usage (including the patch), not tobacco use. If you lie and they find out, they will return what you've paid but not pay out the agreed coverage. Not necessarily fair, but its not worth gambling on. Everyone gets medical testing for most good policies and they always find out.
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