The Diketone free tested vendors list

[LouisLeBeau]

Ahlusion LLC - Ingredients

This is what's on the Ahlusion site about their D/AP testing.
Maybe we should discuss whether or not to add Ahlusion to the spreadsheet?

The summer months are W&A's "downtime" from the business I think. Family to enjoy, finally the fruits of a successful operation. The call for results is relatively new, and I am a little surprised to see them coming behind the curve on ANYthing. I hope to see some reports coming sometime soon. Personally knowing the man, the page you reference is good enough for me. But at this point in the evolution of what is happening in the industry, I would be hard pressed to try to pass my confidence on to anyone else. I sure hope to see Ahlusion do what I have always seen from them, and set this bar higher and more transparent than anyone else.

A straight shooting, honorable veteran, and EVERY other manufacturer, now fall to their word not being worth much because of the unscrupulous actions of a couple manufacturers. Yet that is where we are at. I am unfortunately in agreement, you can no longer just make assurances of your purity, without the documentation to back it up. Sad times.

 

[Sirius]

The summer months are W&A's "downtime" from the business I think. Family to enjoy, finally the fruits of a successful operation. The call for results is relatively new, and I am a little surprised to see them coming behind the curve on ANYthing. I hope to see some reports coming sometime soon. Personally knowing the man, the page you reference is good enough for me. But at this point in the evolution of what is happening in the industry, I would be hard pressed to try to pass my confidence on to anyone else. I sure hope to see Ahlusion do what I have always seen from them, and set this bar higher and more transparent than anyone else.

A straight shooting, honorable veteran, and EVERY other manufacturer, now fall to their word not being worth much because of the unscrupulous actions of a couple manufacturers. Yet that is where we are at. I am unfortunately in agreement, you can no longer just make assurances of your purity, without the documentation to back it up. Sad times.

Well said LeBeau and that FAQ has been good enough for me as well. But only because of trusted people like yourself,
Mr. Mann, El, YcherryY, Lisa and a few other long time Ahlusionist that have shown me the light about Ahlusion.

My own hard headedness almost completely ruined it for me. TBH Wlad runs a pretty complex business having over 198 flavors but it wouldn't be that big of a deal to set up a link in the FAQ.
I hope to see that done but like I said before I'll not hold my breath.

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[Sirius]

I agree that I am limiting myself.
Or at least my body is.

I wish the industry hadn't started turning more towards VG so CLOUDS BRO.

High VG makes me wheeze in bed at night, like when I was smoking.
Not nearly as bad, but yeah.

And it makes me sneeze every morning and blow my nose for hours.

I don't need no clouds.
I want PG.

Once again, I'm a dinosaur.
I've come to terms with that, but I won't stop asking for what I want

And there's no need for you to. Halo juices are 70pg still and so are Highbrow,..many others let you customize too.
[emoji106]

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[Lukie]

Messaged LTecigs in the UK to see which flavourings they use in their juice, so I could see if the flavour manufacturers use diketones and got a reply saying 'We use several UK based flavour manufacturers, we do not wish to divulge into which ones'

I guess they don't legally have to tell you, but it would be good to know what you're vaping on.

 

[Dizzo]

Habu Vapor and Nice juice Co. added

 

[DC2]

Habu Vapor and Nice Juice Co. added

All of the Habu liquids are 30% PG/70% VG
Won't anyone think of DC2?


Anyone have any idea on the PG/VG ratio for Nice Juice?
All three of those flavors sound really promising.


I tried to call them but no answer.

 

[Sirius]

All of the Habu liquids are 30% PG/70% VG
Won't anyone think of DC2?
[emoji23]

Anyone have any idea on the PG/VG ratio for Nice Juice?
All three of those flavors sound really promising.


I tried to call them but no answer.

Labor Day [emoji106]

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[WharfRat1976]

What we need are lab tests from Capella, Inawera, Hangsen and TFA and any other flavor makers. 2 of those are not US companies so good luck with that.
All the flavor makers have several legal loopholes in their favor.

There is NO limit on how much of a GRAS (Generally Recognized as Safe) substance can be present in a food product. In fact, you can legally buy and have a barrel of pure diacetyl delivered right to your doorstep, because it is considered safe for ingestion. FDA defines GRAS: "adequately shown to be safe under the conditions of its intended use." So here we have:

Loophole #1, do not mention inhalation. Any food can contain any amount of diacetyl. Food with over 1% diacetyl must include "artificial flavor" on the ingredient list, so:

Loophole #2, label the product "artificial flavor." Artificial butter (I Can't Believe It's Not Butter) contains staggering amounts of diacetyl and GRAS substitutes, but look at the ingredient list and diacetyl is not listed. It's just "artificial flavor." If it's less than 1% of the product, it doesn't even have to be mentioned at all, thus:

Loophole #3, use less than 1% diacetyl. Now, that's all for food products. For e-liquid, there are NO regulations whatsoever. I suppose the FDA might consider them food product and subject to the regulations above, but if they are explicitly and clearly intended for inhalation and NOT ingestion - no laws or regulations exist, so:

Loophole #4, market it for inhalation and put whatever the heck you want in there. Smack on a sticker that says it's "diacetyl free!" while you're at it. It could possibly be argued that FTC's Fair Packaging and Labeling Act is violated, but even that is a stretch. Certainly no e-cig-related vendor has been prosecuted under that (or any other) regulation.

I don't think e-liquid vendors or flavor makers have ANY legal repercussions to fear!

 

[LouisLeBeau]

What we need are lab tests from Capella, Inawera, Hangsen and TFA and any other flavor makers. 2 of those are not US companies so good luck with that.
All the flavor makers have several legal loopholes in their favor.

There is NO limit on how much of a GRAS (Generally Recognized as Safe) substance can be present in a food product. In fact, you can legally buy and have a barrel of pure diacetyl delivered right to your doorstep, because it is considered safe for ingestion. FDA defines GRAS: "adequately shown to be safe under the conditions of its intended use." So here we have:

Loophole #1, do not mention inhalation. Any food can contain any amount of diacetyl. Food with over 1% diacetyl must include "artificial flavor" on the ingredient list, so:

Loophole #2, label the product "artificial flavor." Artificial butter (I Can't Believe It's Not Butter) contains staggering amounts of diacetyl and GRAS substitutes, but look at the ingredient list and diacetyl is not listed. It's just "artificial flavor." If it's less than 1% of the product, it doesn't even have to be mentioned at all, thus:

Loophole #3, use less than 1% diacetyl. Now, that's all for food products. For e-liquid, there are NO regulations whatsoever. I suppose the FDA might consider them food product and subject to the regulations above, but if they are explicitly and clearly intended for inhalation and NOT ingestion - no laws or regulations exist, so:

Loophole #4, market it for inhalation and put whatever the heck you want in there. Smack on a sticker that says it's "diacetyl free!" while you're at it. It could possibly be argued that FTC's Fair Packaging and Labeling Act is violated, but even that is a stretch. Certainly no e-cig-related vendor has been prosecuted under that (or any other) regulation.

I don't think e-liquid vendors or flavor makers have ANY legal repercussions to fear!

EXCELLENT summary of where things presently stand @WharfRat1976 . Sad, but excellent.

I think that NO vaper wants the FDA to play a role in vaping, but it is certainly going to happen. We're just waiting for the other shoe to drop. However, once they DO decide to establish the deemings, and it is a done deal, I believe it will be in our interest to raise this issue with the FDA if they don't consider it themselves. If they're going to step in and take charge, they sure as hell better do it right.

 

[Sirius]

What we need are lab tests from Capella, Inawera, Hangsen and TFA and any other flavor makers. 2 of those are not US companies so good luck with that.
All the flavor makers have several legal loopholes in their favor.

There is NO limit on how much of a GRAS (Generally Recognized as Safe) substance can be present in a food product. In fact, you can legally buy and have a barrel of pure diacetyl delivered right to your doorstep, because it is considered safe for ingestion. FDA defines GRAS: "adequately shown to be safe under the conditions of its intended use." So here we have:

Loophole #1, do not mention inhalation. Any food can contain any amount of diacetyl. Food with over 1% diacetyl must include "artificial flavor" on the ingredient list, so:

Loophole #2, label the product "artificial flavor." Artificial butter (I Can't Believe It's Not Butter) contains staggering amounts of diacetyl and GRAS substitutes, but look at the ingredient list and diacetyl is not listed. It's just "artificial flavor." If it's less than 1% of the product, it doesn't even have to be mentioned at all, thus:

Loophole #3, use less than 1% diacetyl. Now, that's all for food products. For e-liquid, there are NO regulations whatsoever. I suppose the FDA might consider them food product and subject to the regulations above, but if they are explicitly and clearly intended for inhalation and NOT ingestion - no laws or regulations exist, so:

Loophole #4, market it for inhalation and put whatever the heck you want in there. Smack on a sticker that says it's "diacetyl free!" while you're at it. It could possibly be argued that FTC's Fair Packaging and Labeling Act is violated, but even that is a stretch. Certainly no e-cig-related vendor has been prosecuted under that (or any other) regulation.

I don't think e-liquid vendors or flavor makers have ANY legal repercussions to fear!

Inawera being a Polish flavor supplier I would be as concerned about as Hangson..I doubt they even care if other TA suppliers out sell them. Those come out of China amirite?

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[DJLEC]

All of the Habu liquids are 30% PG/70% VG
Won't anyone think of DC2?

You are not alone since my preferred ratio is 70 PG/30 VG.

Over 50 VG and I also get a heavy chest.

My largest holdings are Ahlusion, Heather's Heavenly Vapes (NET's), and Halo. I also have a large number of NET's with some of them at 70 PG.

When Halo released their Testing Results I bought a ton of Torque56 & Tribeca. On Sale of course.

Does this make me a dinosaur also [emoji3]

I have discovered 3 Synthetic Tobacco's that I really like from Mountain Oak Vapors also. 50/50 ratios though.

I have full trust with Ahlusion & HHV, and I am hoping this trust proves to be valid.

I applaud all of you for starting, and contributing to this thread.

 

[Mazinny]

All of the Habu liquids are 30% PG/70% VG
Won't anyone think of DC2?


Anyone have any idea on the PG/VG ratio for Nice Juice?
All three of those flavors sound really promising.


I tried to call them but no answer.

Unfortunately 70 vg as well.

 

[DC2]

Unfortunately 70 vg as well.

Oh crap, I has a sad.

 

[Mazinny]

Oh crap, I has a sad.

DC, is 50/50 out of the question for you ?

Also, do you have any interest in DIY ? I have seen a couple of DIY sites with only FA ingredient recipes. All tested.

 

[DC2]

DC, is 50/50 out of the question for you ?

Also, do you have any interest in DIY ? I have seen a couple of DIY sites with only FA ingredient recipes. All tested.

50/50 is on the edge of tolerable.

I dabble in it sometimes, if a flavor is worth trying.
But it has to be awesome if I'm going to deal with the consequences.

As for DIY, I've got 10 years worth of vacuum sealed 10% nicotine in my freezer.
I hope I never have to open it.

I'm not going to DIY unless it is forced upon me.
By either the FDA or the CLOUDS BRO movement.

 

[Qew]

I have been in contact with Annette from Virgin Vapor about testing and publishing the results. I think we are safe ordering from VV, but I can't prove it. In July I received an email from her saying: "I would very much like to publish our lab reports. The issue we are having is that we did the testing on the flavorings themselves so they contain proprietary information that we obviously don't want to share. I'd like to do another round of testing, this time testing the finished products so we can publish the results."

She also said: "We recently got our own GCMS machine, a sophisticated analytical tool that enables us to test for even trace amounts of a given compound in any sample. I'm considering having our chemist create reports for us on a regular basis (we are testing each batch on an ongoing basis since organic ingredients can vary) that we can publish." This last email came in on July 2, so it's still a work in progress.

The reason I think we are safe is that I have been buying VV since I started vaping and last winter she hired an in house chemist, then 2 of my favorites disappeared off the site (butterscotch blonde and buttercream mint) and creme caramel changed DRASTICALLY. I believe one of the popular coffee flavors was pulled as well. She has since stopped offering custom mixes so only 50/50 and 100%VG are available, outside of clearance. I am also one that can't vape over 40% VG.

I also emailed Free State Vapor to see if I can get some test results. They do claim to have tested and have them.

Maybe I should go to Ahlusion's store and ask to see any results they have? I have to admit, the thought of that scares me.

 

[WharfRat1976]

I can't find test results on Velvet Cloud ejuice advertised as "Natural & Organic."
Their website says no diacetyl here:FAQs – Velvet Cloud

 

[Mazinny]

I can't find test results on Velvet Cloud ejuice advertised as "Natural & Organic."
Their website says no diacetyl here:FAQs – Velvet Cloud

No diacetyl doesn't mean much anymore. The vast majority of the flavor compounders ( TFA, Cappella etc ... ) have completely replaced diacetyl with AP. In fact, vendors need to go out of their way to find flavors with diacetyl ( and a couple have ! ). AP is the diketone of choice for flavor compounders these days.

 

[Mazinny]

You are not alone since my preferred ratio is 70 PG/30 VG.

Over 50 VG and I also get a heavy chest.

My largest holdings are Ahlusion, Heather's Heavenly Vapes (NET's), and Halo. I also have a large number of NET's with some of them at 70 PG.

When Halo released their Testing Results I bought a ton of Torque56 & Tribeca. On Sale of course.

Does this make me a dinosaur also [emoji3]

I have discovered 3 Synthetic Tobacco's that I really like from Mountain Oak Vapors also. 50/50 ratios though.

I have full trust with Ahlusion & HHV, and I am hoping this trust proves to be valid.

I applaud all of you for starting, and contributing to this thread.

DJ, have you asked HHV ? Not that there is a likelihood of diketones in non-hybrid NETs, but i read a couple of posts elsewhere that HHV did not respond to email inquiries re their diketone policy.

 

[DJLEC]

DJ, have you asked HHV ? Not that there is a likelihood of diketones in non-hybrid NETs, but i read a couple of posts elsewhere that HHV did not respond to email inquiries re their diketone policy.

I have not asked but I placed an Order this morning [emoji3] I am the biggest pouncer when HHV has a Sale.

What I have done though is delete read vape all of my Caramel Apple Tobacco & Dragon's Fire. I was a bit suspicious of the CAT, and I am done with DF for now. I am holding on ample quantities of Huntsman, Legend, and Serendipity moving forward. This morning I threw a Small of Parrot Head in the Cart.

I recall reading a Post of someone who did ask, and HHV did not understand the concern.


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