The Hangsen Thread

[52anddone]

Same with the nicotine, the upgrade of my delivery device the lower my nic went.

I totally agree with you on this, the delivery device makes a HUGE difference. I have (2) Cthulhu v2's and when last used I had to go all the way down to 6mg/ml Nic (was using 9mg/ml in my Lemo V1's) just so I could use it, otherwise my vape was just too strong. The only reason I am not using the Cthulhu today is that it seeped (almost a leak) too much juice for me to be happy with it to use all day long. I'm now using the Digiflavor Siren's and the Coppervape Hussar's which are not as efficient at Nic delivery, so that's part of it for me anyway, and the rest might just be the fact that I have killed my "Buds" for good.

 

[coldgin96]

Try eating a dill pickle every day. Worked/works for my wife and I.

 

[52anddone]

I like dill pickles, and Jalapeno's. Eaten every week, but not daily, will have to try that just to see what happens.

 

[dannyv45]

After 28 days, my Highway at 4.5% must have got too strong, it lost all of the sweetness I so liked. I went ahead and cut it with some pre-mix and diluted it down to 4% and that sweetness came right back. Funny how .5% made that much difference in the flavor. Who Knew ??

If the strength was good for you at 4.5% (Which is not overly high) you could try adding 1% inawera chocolate if it's gone flat. You will not notice the chocolate but will notice a new found richness in the tobacco and an enhanced sweet nuttiness that is so typical with highway. I'm a big fan of the hangsen highway and No.5 flavors and being there my go too's I know all the tricks for those nutty 555 type vapes. The chocolate will bring out the sweetness in the nutty tobacco. Adding 1% marshmallow along with the chocolate will also bring out the thickness and wetness of the mix (Making it a nice hearty vape per say). That's a trick that will work with any tobacco that's not a dry ashy type American cig type tobacco mix. For more information on additives and enhancers I have a pretty good section on the subject in my blogs (Link below in my sig line).

Chocolate-INW

 

[52anddone]

If the strength was good for you at 4.5% (Which is not overly high) you could try adding 1% inawera chocolate if it's gone flat

That's just what it did, went flat on me. I thought it had something to do with my taster senses. If not, then why would it go flat on me danny ?? It ( my Highway mix) was great before I went to bed, but when I woke up it was flat, same juice in my topper as before I went to bed. I might try that INW Chocolate just to see what happens though, I'm curious now. I did go from 4.5% down to 4% (by cutting it with some of my premix) and a little sweetness came back, but not all, so now I'm at 3.75% just to see what happens.

Edit: I'm reading you're blog as I type, and have been for the last 2 days. Very interesting and informative, Thanks for all the work on it.

 

[52anddone]

Just got done reading all of danny's blog and didn't come up with any reference to why a mix would go flat, so I don't know if it was something I did wrong in my mixing routine or not. My Highway @ 4.5% was the most delicious, then all of a sudden it just went flat, no sweetness at all, strange. I put all my ingredients (measured by syringe) into a plastic beaker then use a little small hand mixer and mix to a good froth, then let sit a day in a dark/cool area down stairs uncovered, then start using it. I cleaned my topper and re-coiled/re-wicked it before use and set it up at 10 watts and 1.08Ω using 28g NiCr, I'm using a Coppervape Hussar topper and run in TC mode @ 93°C (199.4°F) on a Hohmtech Slice for testing. That's all I got for ya'll, nothing special. I got real good flavor for about 3 tank fulls (about 3ml per tank full), then it went flat. ???

 

[Leo Bak]

Just got done reading all of danny's blog and didn't come up with any reference to why a mix would go flat, so I don't know if it was something I did wrong in my mixing routine or not. My Highway @ 4.5% was the most delicious, then all of a sudden it just went flat, no sweetness at all, strange. I put all my ingredients (measured by syringe) into a plastic beaker then use a little small hand mixer and mix to a good froth, then let sit a day in a dark/cool area down stairs uncovered, then start using it. I cleaned my topper and re-coiled/re-wicked it before use and set it up at 10 watts and 1.08Ω using 28g NiCr, I'm using a Coppervape Hussar topper and run in TC mode @ 93°C (199.4°F) on a Hohmtech Slice for testing. That's all I got for ya'll, nothing special. I got real good flavor for about 3 tank fulls (about 3ml per tank full), then it went flat. ???

Perhaps increase the steeping time. It usually takes 3 to 4 weeks before i start using Highway. With sufficient breathing, streathing, shaking during the steeping time. By then the 3.5% i use is strong enough for me.

 

[52anddone]

I did steep for 28 days. The strength is OK for me, it's just that I lost the sweetness all of a sudden, and I don't know why.

 

[dannyv45]

I really don't have a proven explanation other then my own experience and opinion that the nicotine is what is causing it. When first mixed The flavoring is dominant and Nicotine oxidation reaction which can be in as little as 24 hours takes over changing the taste of the entire mix. So adding additives such as what I previously mentioned, adjusting the nicotine level, adjusting flavor level or a combination of all 3 may help.

I would rule out it being your taste buds if you notice this right from the start in your steeped or 24 hour old mix BUT If you had noticed this after some time vaping the steeped or 24 hour old mix then yes I would think this is taste bud burn out.

My suggestion for your 28 day steeped mix is try an additive or flavor adjustment approach. 28 days should be long enough for the mix to be fully steeped.

Another thing I noticed is you froth your mix. This causes a rapid introduction of oxygen into the mix which causes an acceleration in the oxidation process. In my opinion this oxidation is to fast and may also be part of the problem. For this reason I stick to mostly time steeping and if in a hurry heat steeping. You want to blend all ingredients with a smooth gentle stir and not whip the mixture into a froth frenzy. I know many believe in frothing there mix with a frother but I do not. Oxidation over time is the key. A simple shaking of ingredients is also acceptable but to whip it into a foam is not the answer.

 

[Alter]

froth your mix. This causes a rapid introduction of oxygen into the mix which causes an acceleration in the oxidation process. In my opinion this oxidation is to fast and may also be part of the problem. For this reason I stick to mostly time steeping and if in a hurry heat steeping. You want to blend all ingredients with a smooth gentle stir and not whip the mixture into a froth frenzy. I know many believe in frothing there mix with a frother but I do not. Oxidation over time is the key. A simple shaking of ingredients is also acceptable but to whip it into a foam is not the answer.

I don't believe in frothing either. I can see all that air flattening out the flavor. I barely believe in heat steeping also, some crock pot temps can burn the sweeteners in the juice so it begins to taste funky later on down the road. Magnetic mixer set enough to see the liquid moving all through the mix(never make a "vortex"), the only air added are the bubbles from shaking the concentrate before adding and also I add the nic the next day and again only bubbles added are from shaking the nic before adding. I have tried some of my tobac mixes, mostly hangsen at different intervals of steep periods and my juice IMO is more flavorful the longer the steep. I have enough backstock that hurrying juice with heat or using magic incantations there is no need.

 

[Slots]

I have enough backstock that hurrying juice with heat or using magic incantations there is no need.

Big DITTO

I stay way ahead of myself too ... it's the best and only way for me.

 

[52anddone]

Wow !! Thank you all for that. I started using the frothing method just because I saw where someone did it as a test and came to the conclusion that frothing was the way to get the mix fully and completely melded together and also cut the steeping time down to days from weeks, also others tried the same approach and reported back the same conclusion. So that's why I was frothing. Now that I see what happens (I just started this technique), I will use what I have already made and mix up some more and try it ya'll's way and just let it sit for a few weeks. What you all said does make sense to me. You see, I have been mixing for over 2 ½ years, but it has been just mostly my Menthol/Mint mix (97% of the time) and my Arabic mix (which I have been having the same problems with lately) about 3% of the time. The Arabic I have been working with for about a year, but have only mixed about 60ml's in that time frame and was still trying to perfect my percentages, so I was getting inconsistent results. Danny, Ego, Slots, Thank You for your posts and trying to help me out.

I have enough backstock that hurrying juice with heat or using magic incantations there is no need.

NO incantations here, but believe me when I say that I frothed it till it turned White. From now on I will just go back to "Shaken, Not Stirred".

 

[52anddone]

I just ordered 30ml of both Chocolate-INW
and Gold & Silver (I like the 10ml so much). The 30ml of INW Chocolate is to fix the 240ml of Highway mix I frothed and didn't think 10ml was going to be enough to fix with and keep some on hand for further testing with my other mixes.

 

[52anddone]

Do any of you think that danny's solution of adding INW Chocolate to Highway to fix my problem there would also work for my Arabic, it went flat also.

 

[Alter]

it's just that I lost the sweetness all of a sudden, and I don't know why.

I couldn't tell you about adding chocolate to a mix, its one of my don't like flavors. Danny knows what he's talking about and his blogs are great reading. I like the HS highway, DS and No5 cause I don't think they are sweet, kinda dry maybe so I'm not completely sure where your finding the sweetness. Sweet HS tobacs are deluxe, Tab Blend and on the fence is elder captain and Virginia.
When I first started vaping I heat steeped in a coffee pot that I checked and it maintained 160 degrees, 1 hour in pot..counter to room temp then 1 hour again. Within 2 weeks the juice had turned super dark, thick and had a dank taste. I wasted 60mls of expensive commercial juice. Crock pot temp is from my understanding 150 degrees, so there is a 10 degrees window between steeping and burning. The only time I use heat is to loosen up cold VG and thats hot tap water for a few minutes.
I am considering buying thermal heating film and a temp gauge and probe to heat the mix to 80-90 degrees while mixing to help incorporate the ingredients better.

 

[Leo Bak]

Do any of you think that danny's solution of adding INW Chocolate to Highway to fix my problem there would also work for my Arabic, it went flat also.

I use INW chocolate to add a drysweet undertone, but i don't think it's the sweetness you're looking for. I don't know if you smoked in the past, but when opening a fresh pack of cigs, you could also smell some slight chocolate, at least i did. Maybe it's FA MTS Vape Wizard you're looking for, that adds some distinct Mellow, Smooth, Thick but also Sweet tone to your liquid.

Also, i often use a yoghurt machine at appr. 104F degrees, shake (not froth) the juice for a couple of minutes in jars with lids, then put jars without lid in the yoghurt machine for 8 hours, with a lid on the machine itself. All tobacco flavours are vapeable after one to two weeks, but darken much faster than time-steeped liquid. Not recommended for large quantities that you'd store for longterm use. I suspect it's the nic that starts oxidating much more after heating.

 

[dannyv45]

The trick with chocolate is to add a slight almost unnoticeable accent to enhance the existing flavor and not add a chocolate flavor. I recommend no more then 1%. Also no milk chocolate or a candy type chocolate. Use what I recommended Chocolate-INW.

As far as Arabic, Arabic has an exotic tobacco taste I'm not sure chocolate would be a good fit for that. Maybe a thickening, wetting approach would be better for that such as 1% - 2% marshmallow. I'm not so sure sweetness even equates to those for mentioned tobaccos. I would think body, fullness, thickness and wetness are more what your after. This approach brings out the flavor that's already there. I've never really herd of anyone relating sweetness with these tobaccos but I believe what you are saying is there sweeter then lets say a dry American tobacco type vape (Hangsen Red USA)

 

[52anddone]

I like the HS highway, DS and No5 cause I don't think they are sweet, kinda dry maybe so I'm not completely sure where your finding the sweetness.

I get just a hint of sweetness from Highway, not from DS, and #5 I have not even tried. Sweetness is the closest I can come to explaining what I am experiencing in the Highway, and it is a background taste at that.

 

[52anddone]

The trick with chocolate is to add a slight almost unnoticeable accent to enhance the existing flavor and not add a chocolate flavor. I recommend no more then 1%. Also no milk chocolate or a candy type chocolate. Use what I recommended Chocolate-INW.

As far as Arabic, Arabic has an exotic tobacco taste I'm not sure chocolate would be a good fit for that. Maybe a thickening, wetting approach would be better for that such as 1% - 2% marshmallow. I'm not so sure sweetness even equates to those for mentioned tobaccos. I would think body, fullness, thickness and wetness are more what your after. This approach brings out the flavor that's already there. I've never really herd of anyone relating sweetness with these tobaccos but I believe what you are saying is there sweeter then lets say a dry American tobacco type vape (Hangsen Red USA)

At 2 years and 10 months after stopping tobacco, I'm finally tasting something in those Hangsens tobacco's that I hadn't before and don't really know how to explain it. I'm wondering if it's just the fact that I'm using ECX Nic to mix with, and the EXC is doing something to some of my mixes. I say some because my Gold & Silver seem to be good to go, taste the same from day one on thru day 25 now, it hasn't changed one bit, but my Arabic and Highway do change just a few tanks after I mixed the batch. IDK what is going on, and I will not trust my sense of taste just yet to try to describe what I'm actually tasting with any authority. I'll just work on my Highway for now and get that straightened out, then go to my Arabic mix and work on that, with ya'll's help of course. My Desert Ship I like because it tastes like tobacco only, no sweetness at all, that's why I like it, plus I get a slight bump up in TH with it.

 

[GaryInTexas]

When my Hangsens change taste it's normally an indicator to me to change my cotton wick and clean my coil.