The Nicotine myth

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bluecat

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Nicotine can be addictive just like alcohol can be. Unless you want to overturn many many many years of good and bad research on it. Anything else is just spin. Sadly... the world has become a spin machine. They think we walk out of the house with stupid written on our foreheads.

Sadly.. that is case with quite a few humans now a days.
 

yolo_

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Nicotine in smoking affects me differently than it does when i vape it. With cigs i never could feel like i got enough nic.But with vaping i do get enough and can tell because i am reducing my nic levels. I started at 18mg and now am doing 3mg and sometimes 2mgs. I can go for a long time without vaping and never wake up craving a vape.

With cigs that is all i could think of was smoking and craving a smoke every 1/2 hour or less even interrupting my sleep!

even if it/nic is addicting i at least feel better with self control and vaping...
 

zoiDman

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Nicotine in smoking affects me differently than it does when i vape it. With cigs i never could feel like i got enough nic.But with vaping i do get enough and can tell because i am reducing my nic levels. I started at 18mg and now am doing 3mg and sometimes 2mgs. I can go for a long time without vaping and never wake up craving a vape.

With cigs that is all i could think of was smoking and craving a smoke every 1/2 hour or less even interrupting my sleep!

even if it/nic is addicting i at least feel better with self control and vaping...

They put a Lot of Other Chemicals in Cigarette Tobacco. Chemicals that have a Questionable Purpose.

Have you considered that Part of the Craving that is Associated with Smoking May Actually be a Craving for those Extra Chemicals?
 

jp_cfc09

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Addiction DOES NOT need to hurt people, thats balls.

Can I go a day without vapeing, yes.
could I go a day without a ciggertte, yes.
can I go without coffee for a day, yes.

will it effect me in anyway, YES. Ill not be clam or released and even feel annoyed and crack over the stupid things. Reason being I am addicted to notine and caffeine. In all honestly if I didnt have a addiction to any of these I dont think I would use them that much.

out of curiosity what dictionary do you use? Think ill stay with the oxford english dictionary.
 

ZNinja

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I was addicted to cigs and whatever was in them for 20 years.

For the first few months of vaping I was addicted to/needed nicotine, but that subsided. I went to zero nic because my body demanded it. I now use 1 mg nic because it helps my focus and concentration.

I don't know what they put in those cigs to make them so powerfully addictive, but it isn't nicotine all by itself...at least not for me.
 

edyle

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Gotta disagree with you. I've gone an entire week without vaping and didn't really miss it. I vape because I enjoy the habit. And, yes it's a habit by the definition. :D

Ok wait a minute;

You've gone an entire week without vaping and didn't really miss it.

1: I'm guessing it wasn't by choice
2: Probably you were in hospital

I hope it's not because you smoked instead!
 

CorTed

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Is nicotine addictive?
I am pretty sure it is.
I quit cigarettes over 2 years ago, and have been vaping exclusively ever since.
I just changed one addiction for the other. I used to say don't ever take my cigs away.
Today nobody should ever try to take my PV away from me.

The problem for me is how easy it is to vape, you can practically do it anywhere (unlike cigarettes), so I end up puffing pretty much everywhere.
 

Oliver

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There's no doubt that a good deal of us on ECF (maybe the 95% stated early in the thread) are dependent on nicotine. And, to be precise about that, we struggle to go any length of time without it before we suffer from a variety of withdrawal symptoms. In other words, we feel that we 'need' nicotine to function properly.

What's harder to know for sure is whether it was nicotine that got us here in the first place. Or, again to be precise, whether it was nicotine alone, since all of us became dependent on tobacco (mainly smoked) which is a plant with a variety of physiologically active compounds.

I like to think about nicotine in terms of the addictive process. Clearly it's addictive, because we're dependent on it, but is it particularly addicting?

Animal studies have shown that nicotine-naive rats don't find pure nicotine (injected) particularly "reinforcing" - that is to say, they won't go back for more. This is in stark contrast to whole tobacco which is very reinforcing.

What's the "mechanism" behind this "reinforcement"? Well, to put it simply, I'd say it's pleasure. Nicotine alone isn't particularly pleasurable, so rats don't bother with it. Tobacco, however, is. So they do. Is this indicative of addiction? No, but it does suggest that over time mammals are more likely to repeatedly use tobacco than pure nicotine, and so heading down the path towards nicotine dependence.

Of course, it's possible that e-cigs are pleasurable in and of themselves, despite lacking the other chemical compounds in tobacco, or it's possible there's some interaction between those compounds and nicotine which accelerate the addictive process. Fact is, no-one can say for sure right now, so we don't really know what the addictive potential of e-cigs is to nicotine-naive people.

There are other reasons to believe that e-cigs are likely to be less addicting than tobacco smoking: smoking is about the most efficient way (short of injecting) to deliver tobacco compounds to the body. It's somewhat canonical in addiction research that addictive processes are strongly related to the speed of delivery of a drug. E-Cigs, although they deliver nicotine faster than NRT also deliver it less acutely than smoking, and it is absorbed substantially slower. We should conclude, therefore that the likelihood is that e-cigs are less addicting than tobacco smoking on account of their lacking both efficiency of nicotine delivery and tobacco alkaloids. But how much less addicting, no-one can say.

Caveat: Addiction is a social construct with no single accepted definition. It's very important to include the psychological, biological and social aspects when thinking about any drug or substance.

Interesting links: Karl Fagerstrom on rethinking nicotine addiction
ECF mega thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/44958-so-we-getting-we-not-nicotine.html

Things not touched on in this post: The 'craving' (wanting) aspect of nicotine dependence, individual differences in addictive potential, age at which first exposed to nicotine << all very important.

Interesting things to think about: the sensory-motor aspect of e-cigs (tactile, visual, throat hit) and how they relate to smoked cigarettes. I.e. whether these important to us because they are replications of associations that are specific to us as previous smokers, or whether they pleasurable in and of themselves are are likely to be as pleasurable to never-smokers.

Also, the sensory nature of nicotine in e-cigs (throat hit), in addition to its pharmacological action.
 
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edyle

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It may have a negative connotation. That doesn't really bother me. I accept that people have addictions in life.

To me a habit is something you can easily change. Like popping your gum or spitting. An addiction is something you have a physical dependency on. If I go without Nicotine or coffee (not caffeine, coffee) I will literally get the shakes, lose focus and rage to point of destroying something.

That being said, my vaping or coffee drinking has no ill affects on anyone but myself if any.

Yes, that is more what addition is about; the dependency or the physiological change that develops in your body so that without the daily dose, your body has an undesirable reaction,.
 

zoiDman

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There's no doubt that a good deal of us on ECF (maybe the 95% stated early in the thread) are dependent on nicotine. And, to be precise about that, we struggle to go any length of time without it before we suffer from a variety of withdrawal symptoms. In other words, we feel that we 'need' nicotine to function properly.

What's harder to know for sure is whether it was nicotine that got us here in the first place. Or, again to be precise, whether it was nicotine alone, since all of us became dependent on tobacco (mainly smoked) which is a plant with a variety of physiologically active compounds.

I like to think about nicotine in terms of the addictive process. Clearly it's addictive, because we're dependent on it, but is it particularly addicting?

Animal studies have shown that nicotine-naive rats don't find pure nicotine (injected) particularly "reinforcing" - that is to say, they won't go back for more. This is in stark contrast to whole tobacco which is very reinforcing.

What's the "mechanism" behind this "reinforcement"? Well, to put it simply, I'd say it's pleasure. Nicotine alone isn't particularly pleasurable, so rats don't bother with it. Tobacco, however, is. So they do. Is this indicative of addiction? No, but it does suggest that over time mammals are more likely to repeatedly use tobacco than pure nicotine, and so heading down the path towards nicotine dependence.

Of course, it's possible that e-cigs are pleasurable in and of themselves, despite lacking the other chemical compounds in tobacco, or it's possible there's some interaction between those compounds and nicotine which accelerate the addictive process. Fact is, no-one can say for sure right now, so we don't really know what the addictive potential of e-cigs is to nicotine-naive people.

There are other reasons to believe that e-cigs are likely to be less addicting than tobacco smoking: smoking is about the most efficient way (short of injecting) to deliver tobacco compounds to the body. It's somewhat canonical in addiction research that addictive processes are strongly related to the speed of delivery of a drug. E-Cigs, although they deliver nicotine faster than NRT also deliver it less acutely than smoking, and it is absorbed substantially slower. We should conclude, therefore that the likelihood is that e-cigs are less addicting than tobacco smoking on account of their lacking both efficiency of nicotine delivery and tobacco alkaloids. But how much less addicting, no-one can say.

Caveat: Addiction is a social construct with no single accepted definition. It's very important to include the psychological, biological and social aspects when thinking about any drug or substance.

Interesting links: Karl Fagerstrom on rethinking nicotine addiction
ECF mega thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/44958-so-we-getting-we-not-nicotine.html

Things not touched on in this post: The 'craving' (wanting) aspect of nicotine dependence, individual differences in addictive potential, age at which first exposed to nicotine << all very important.

Interesting things to think about: the sensory-motor aspect of e-cigs (tactile, visual, throat hit) and how they relate to smoked cigarettes. I.e. whether these important to us because they are replications of associations that are specific to us as previous smokers, or whether they pleasurable in and of themselves are are likely to be as pleasurable to never-smokers.

Also, the sensory nature of nicotine in e-cigs (throat hit), in addition to its pharmacological action.

Very Well Put SJ.

And it touches on some of the Points that Myself and Others have made in this Thread.

The Biggest to me is a Distinction between Addiction to the Chemical Nicotine in Isolation. And the Addiction to the Act of Using and e-Cigarette in General.

I also like the Part of there Being No Clear Singular Excepted definition as to What an Addiction is. Either Physical or Mental.
 

Topacka

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To preface, I didn't read the whole thread.
These are only my opinions, regardless of how strongly I feel about them, this post is not meant to insult or disparage anybody.
There are two separate kinds of addiction:

Physical: Physical addiction is when you have a negative physical reaction to the cessation of a substance and because of those negative physical reactions, you cannot stop using the substance. These physical reactions are known to addicts as withdrawals, colloquially referred to as "getting sick" and the reverse is "getting/staying well".

Examples: Alcohol, Benzodiazepines, Opiates

Mental: Mental or Emotional addiction is when you have feelings that you are dependent on a substance and while there are minimal to zero physical withdrawal symptoms, you still have feelings of anxiety, restlessness, headaches, irritability, ect. These are also withdrawals. They are just less extreme. Sometimes these substances can be more compelling to continue using past the point that the people who use them consciously want to use them. This is the state of addiction.

Examples: Caffeine, ......., amphetamines, nicotine


To announce that nicotine is a nonaddictive substance like apples, or French fries, is nothing short of completely ignorant. In fact, nicotine is so addictive that very close to 100% of this forum was or is currently addicted to nicotine, which is why, after multiple failed attempts at quitting smoking cigarettes often people start branching out for different ways of quitting, like nicotine replacement i.e. Vaping. So that you can continue to ingest nicotine without harming yourself.
 
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pcrdude

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I'm not trying to be argumentative, but where would gambling or sex addiction fall in your scenario? Or, are you only addressing chemical addiction? If so, is it possible to have a non-physical addiction to a chemcial in a phsychological sense? If that is possible, is it also possible that some people can be addicted to nicotine purely on a phsychological level?

Just curious.....
 

zoiDman

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I'm not trying to be argumentative, but where would gambling or sex addiction fall in your scenario? Or, are you only addressing chemical addiction? If so, is it possible to have a non-physical addiction to a chemcial in a phsychological sense? If that is possible, is it also possible that some people can be addicted to nicotine purely on a phsychological level?

Just curious.....

I see No Reason why a Person Couldn't.

BTW - Do you know the Main Reason I Vape High VG e-Liquids?

Because when I Exhale, if I Don't see a Huge Cone Shaped Plume coming out of My Mouth, I don't Feel like I just got a Hit.

I tell myself that it is Silly. But that is the Way it Is. If I don't see Tons of Vapor, I don't feel Satisfied.
 

pcrdude

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I see No Reason why a Person Couldn't.

BTW - Do you know the Main Reason I Vape High VG e-Liquids?

Because when I Exhale, if I Don't see a Huge Cone Shaped Plume coming out of My Mouth, I don't Feel like I just got a Hit.

I tell myself that it is Silly. But that is the Way it Is. If I don't see Tons of Vapor, I don't feel Satisfied.

Seriously, I need to see the vapor as well.

I think some people can be "habituated" to the act of smoking, the act of vaping, nicotine, or any of the other chemicals in tobacco, or the flavors or visible vapor when vaping. I also believe that most people who consume nicotine in any form, have some level of addiction (not using the strictest definition for that one).

I drink coffee nearly every day, and miss it when I don't have it. I would miss vaping if I had to avoid it for some reason. I believe I would miss vaping far less than I missed smoking, but I have flown from the midwest to Europe many times when I was a smoker, and it didn't kill me. Made me irritable, yes. Therefore, the irrirability is a withdrawal symptom, ergo addiction (again, not the sctrictest definition).

This is my opinion only, so please don'y dogpile me*

*unless you are a herd of beautiful available women, then dogpile away**

**Please forgive my wekaness for women, and try not to label me a sexist......

;)
 

edyle

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I see No Reason why a Person Couldn't.

BTW - Do you know the Main Reason I Vape High VG e-Liquids?

Because when I Exhale, if I Don't see a Huge Cone Shaped Plume coming out of My Mouth, I don't Feel like I just got a Hit.

I tell myself that it is Silly. But that is the Way it Is. If I don't see Tons of Vapor, I don't feel Satisfied.

YES; ME TOO.


In fact when I get a serious TH with no visual smokey looking cue it's positively scary; it's like when you suck on gasoline or something;

No it's not silly at all; For 3 decades I've been a heavy smoker; and when you get that throat hit and no smoke - one of the things that comes with that is when you light the wrong end of the cig by mistake; at age 20s and 30s I'd of tasted it sooner, but by late forties it took longer to register. So when you get that throat hit but see no smoke, the instincts start ringing alarm bells.
 

kristin

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Is a habitual behavior the same as being addicted? People can be addicted to biting their fingernails, fiddling with their long hair, chewing sugar-free bubblegum or having a big mug of coffee every morning, but generally those are considered harmless habits, not the same as a "real addiction."

If someone has an "addiction" (either to a chemical or to a behavior), but it isn't physically, emotionally or financially harming the "addicted," bystanders or loved ones, why should we (society) have a problem with it?
 

pcrdude

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Is a habitual behavior the same as being addicted? People can be addicted to biting their fingernails, fiddling with their long hair, chewing sugar-free bubblegum or having a big mug of coffee every morning, but generally those are considered harmless habits, not the same as a "real addiction."

If someone has an "addiction" (either to a chemical or to a behavior), but it isn't physically, emotionally or financially harming the "addicted," bystanders or loved ones, why should we (society) have a problem with it?

Hi Kristen,

I appreciate your posts, and read them often. I agree with 'if someones addiction isn't bothering you, why should we have a problem with it?' as well.

I know people who are addicted to caffeine. If they don't get their caffeine, they get headaches that are nearly incapacitating. Similarly, I know people who get extremely irritable if they can't have a cigarette for a long enough time. In fact, I was one of those people.

What does that mean?

Well, I can assure you it will mean different things to different people...

;)
 
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