I don't Feel so Bad about having to see Lots of Vapor knowing that I a Not Alone.
LOL
The Nicotine myth
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I don't Feel so Bad about having to see Lots of Vapor knowing that I a Not Alone.
LOL
No, I just wanted to see if I could.
Used to try that when I smoked a pipe and could not get beyond two days.
Most people who either Admit to Having, or work With/Around people with Addictions will Usually mention a "Loss of Control" or an "Inability to Control" the Frequency or the Amount of Using Something when Defining an Addiction.
Without the Loss or Inability to Control, many will say that it is Just a Problem. Or perhaps, a Behavioral Issues.
If a Person Isn't Harming Themselves or Others, is it an Issue? I Dunno. It Isn't for Me. But the Real Question is what does the Person Who has it Feel?
Perhaps a Bigger Question Could be Asked? Is it Right for Someone to Tell Other People that there is Nothing Wrong With Someone when they Know that Indeed, Many People have the Inability to Stop Doing/Using the thing that Isn't Supposed to be a Problem?
(Not Directing this Last Question at Kristin. Or Anyone Else. Or saying that she Does Do This. Just Throwing it Out there. Because it is Very Important IMO.)
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Same here, but I frequently am in situations where stealth vaping is necessary ...
This may sound too easy, but I close my eyes and imagine the cloud, while vaping 100% PG juice and holding it, then exhaling downward ...
I do NOT do this while driving ...
No, I just wanted to see if I could.
Used to try that when I smoked a pipe and could not get beyond two days.
Ah; I find that really reassuring to hear; how much nicotine were you vaping at the time? mg and ml.
If I quit nicotine, an often claimed addictive drug, I start bleeding and feeling sick. Am I addicted?
If I quit 5-ASA, a non-addictive drug, I start bleeding and feeling sick. Am I addicted?
If I quit Xanax, an addictive drug, after taking it every day for a week nothing happens. Am I addicted?
If I forget to put my bottle of Xanax in my pocket when I go out I'll at least have a short rush of panic. Am I addicted?
I won't even ask about this one, I took codeine #4 as prescribed and no less after surgery. After 4 days I overslept and missed a dose. I woke up with cramps outside of the surgical site that were relieved by taking the pill. I was addicted.
Here's the thing with nicotine. When I quit smoking I have the same bleeding and sickness as quitting nicotine. The difference is I want a cigarette when I'd go without. With nicotine I have to wonder if maybe I didn't get enough.
An interesting side note to this, my recent change in medicine regime had me feeling terrible. I haven't wanted a cigarette since my first week of vaping. Feeling sick 1 year and 9 months later had me wanting a cigarette.
Where that falls in with me is people using improper terminology to scare other people into paying them a lot of money for psychotherapy.
Better would be to say it was an unhealthy lack of control in things they find joy in doing.
I went down from 18 to 10 in 6 months... Then did the test.
I'm now down to 4 - 6 on the nicotine.
EDIT: I've always vaped between 8 and 12 ml per day. I'm a heavy vaper!!
... Ok... It's between 6 and 9 ml a day this past month, but I'm not gonna stress if it goes to nothing
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Same here, but I frequently am in situations where stealth vaping is necessary ...
This may sound too easy, but I close my eyes and imagine the cloud, while vaping 100% PG juice and holding it, then exhaling downward ...
I do NOT do this while driving ...
I keep a Pyrex DCT tank with a 2.2 ohm carto and 24mg 70pg/30vg in my old eGo case. After I started using APV's and larger mods I just started using it as an "on the go" tank case. I put that on the vamo when I'm in federal buildings or places where I don't want my huge clouds to cause distaction or confusion. I saw a video about steath vaping once but I can't find it now. Just do a mouth-to-lung, then double inhale. This 70+ pg its a ghost every time. Sorry about getting
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To be honest, I get tired of people on ECF wringing their hands over demon nicotine. Don't get me wrong, I don't care if 95% of you cut out your nic, but I don't appreciate some people vilifying those who appreciate and benefit from their nic. Back in my analog days, I quit smoking twice and was surprised at how easy it was physically. A major change in the way my digestive system worked, and not in a good way, but otherwise nothing. But I found myself chronically depressed with almost no drive or ambition, but otherwise I was ok--no cravings or other complaints. At the time I didn't understand where the depression was coming from, but after 6 months I lit up and--wow--instantly, it was like a huge load had been lifted off my shoulders, and I was back full-swing into life. So, sorry, I have no intention of giving up my nicotine now that I have a less dangerous means of administration. I guess in some people's eyes that makes me a nic fiend, but I don't care what kind of hate you sling my way.
The reality is that every person on the planet is addicted to nicotine. Every one of us has had it in our systems since mommy fed us that first bottle of Gerbers. Trace amounts of nicotine can even be found in the water that we drink.
Fact is that the CDC has never tested a single person, NO A SINGLE ONE that tested negative for nicotine (it's called the background level)
I 'live to eat', and I'm not going to give up my veggies just because they contain nicotine.
Fact is that the CDC has never tested a single person, NO A SINGLE ONE that tested negative for nicotine (it's called the background level)
I 'live to eat', and I'm not going to give up my veggies just because they contain nicotine.
Since there was a call for links/documentation...
As far as the question of whether or not nicotine is significantly addictive...
Nicotine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Here is similar information from a study by an Arizona State professor emeritus...
Professor: Nicotine does not cause cigarette addiction | The State Press - An independent daily serving Arizona State University
And here is a recent study from the Institute of Environmental Science and Research...
Nicotine Is Not the Sole Addiction Causing Agent in Cigarettes
And you might want to check these out too...
Growing List of Positive Effects of Nicotine Seen in Neurode... : Neurology Today
Nicotine treatment for ulcerative colitis
As far as the question of whether or not nicotine is significantly addictive...
Nicotine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Here is similar information from a study by an Arizona State professor emeritus...
Professor: Nicotine does not cause cigarette addiction | The State Press - An independent daily serving Arizona State University
And here is a recent study from the Institute of Environmental Science and Research...
Nicotine Is Not the Sole Addiction Causing Agent in Cigarettes
And you might want to check these out too...
Growing List of Positive Effects of Nicotine Seen in Neurode... : Neurology Today
Nicotine treatment for ulcerative colitis
Found another one in a different UC study at NIH that seems like all the studies put together.
Something that goes along with UC but is separate, primary sclerosing cholangitis is unheard of in smokers according to that paper. I don't know if that includes exclusive nicotine or if like UC smoking is protective but nicotine helps other drugs work better while exclusive nicotine is no better than placebo.
I haven't really looked into PSC and smoking or nicotine deeply but there is stuff out there about it outside of the UC studies.
I find ECF (and forums in general) more addictive than vaping (nicotine). Perhaps I'm alone in that, but I don't think so. And it's not like I need to post to feed that addiction. I'm guessing lurkers can relate to what I'm saying.
Regarding DSM-5 and criteria for substance disorder, I found this (on pretty basic google search):
And I'm pretty sure addiction or dependence, for an individual, depends on how many of the 11 criteria a person is subjected to. For professionals (licensed therapists) that might care to apply the term to an individual, it would be a matter of not just assessment, but treatment. Ideally, overcoming the disorder, or at very least, finding healthy ways to cope and manage it.
At any rate, it would seem if "addiction to smoking cigarettes" were an individual's problem, then vaping could be, I would think, an effective / healthy way to manage the presumed disorder from smoking. But if vaping (nicotine) is seen as simply substituting dependence for one form, I would think vapers have (as a group) been able to demonstrate ability to resolve #2, by being able to cut down or even stop use of nicotine. And when comparing vaping to smoking (nicotine), #4 is certainly reported as substantially less among vapers (who are also ex-smokers). #5 seems overcome with vaping, unless usage ban is in place, but even then, because of #4 is far less of an issue.
Most on the criteria list seem either non-existent when it comes to vaping nicotine, or very tame. But admittedly, at least in my case, I would say #1, #3, #10, #11, and maybe (slight maybe) on #9 are possible items that come from vaping nicotine.
I'll also note, again, that I was able to go cold turkey 3 times from smoking, once for 8+ years, and never less than a year. I currently call myself a moderate smoker, but am about half way thru a pack that I purchased sometime late in 2013, and truly have no cravings for a smoke.
Regarding DSM-5 and criteria for substance disorder, I found this (on pretty basic google search):
And I'm pretty sure addiction or dependence, for an individual, depends on how many of the 11 criteria a person is subjected to. For professionals (licensed therapists) that might care to apply the term to an individual, it would be a matter of not just assessment, but treatment. Ideally, overcoming the disorder, or at very least, finding healthy ways to cope and manage it.
At any rate, it would seem if "addiction to smoking cigarettes" were an individual's problem, then vaping could be, I would think, an effective / healthy way to manage the presumed disorder from smoking. But if vaping (nicotine) is seen as simply substituting dependence for one form, I would think vapers have (as a group) been able to demonstrate ability to resolve #2, by being able to cut down or even stop use of nicotine. And when comparing vaping to smoking (nicotine), #4 is certainly reported as substantially less among vapers (who are also ex-smokers). #5 seems overcome with vaping, unless usage ban is in place, but even then, because of #4 is far less of an issue.
Most on the criteria list seem either non-existent when it comes to vaping nicotine, or very tame. But admittedly, at least in my case, I would say #1, #3, #10, #11, and maybe (slight maybe) on #9 are possible items that come from vaping nicotine.
I'll also note, again, that I was able to go cold turkey 3 times from smoking, once for 8+ years, and never less than a year. I currently call myself a moderate smoker, but am about half way thru a pack that I purchased sometime late in 2013, and truly have no cravings for a smoke.
The only one on that list that applies to me is #4 and it may only be the action I "crave" rather than the "substance." I vaped 0 mg for a week a couple of months ago (before an insurance physical) and didn't suffer "withdrawaI," even though I normally vape 3-4 ml of 12 mg continuously throughout the day. I went back to 12 mg after the test because I prefer the effect, but I saw that I could live without it if I wanted.
I think "addiction" is a dependency that has a detrimental effect on a person's life. If you read the list, each is followed by some kind of negative consequence. So, what is an addiction that doesn't have negative consequences? What if it actually makes you feel better, concentrate better, eat less junk food, keeps you from biting your nails and relieves stress? What if your life wouldn't be "better" if you quit?
I think "addiction" is a dependency that has a detrimental effect on a person's life. If you read the list, each is followed by some kind of negative consequence. So, what is an addiction that doesn't have negative consequences? What if it actually makes you feel better, concentrate better, eat less junk food, keeps you from biting your nails and relieves stress? What if your life wouldn't be "better" if you quit?
Ok, everyone calm down and take a vape now....... Ok, all set? Lets continue. IMHO, addictions are all forms of stress relief. I use to smoke to relieve stress, now I vape to relieve stress. Joggers go into withdrawal if they go to long without a run. It doesn't mean it's bad for them to jog. So from now on, I'm going to tell people I'm not vaping, I'm jogging my lungs.
I do believe, and have believed for a very long time, that there are more things in smoking tobacco that are highly addictive. When I was a smoker, as soon as my eyes opened I would have to get up and go start my coffee then light up a cigarette. As a vaper, I open my eyes, look at the clock, roll over and go back to sleep. I never did that as a smoker. Ever.
As a vaper, I am able to lower the nic content in the liquids I'm using. I could never cut back on how many a day I smoked.
There are psychological dependencies and physical dependencies that vaping addresses. The habit is the easiest one to pinpoint. If I'm just sitting around, vaping or smoking helped me relax. I don't know what it's like without either of those. I can't imagine my life just sitting and watching TV and having my hands in my lap, not doing anything. I must have been able to before I started smoking, I just don't remember doing nothing while sitting there.
The dependency/addiction is a bit harder to nail down. I don't know how many of you ever got the phantom smoke smell when you were at about or past the point for Needing a cigarette. During the workday, if I got super busy to take my self imposed scheduled break, my body sure let me know it was past time for that nic hit. I would smell a cigarette burning even in a non smoking building. I've had this happen once since I started vaping and that was after a year of vaping. I'm not quite sure there is no addiction to nic, but I believe that the addiction is not nearly as strong.
Can addictions vary in strength? Can an addiction lessen but still be present? If the addiction can lessen, is it still considered an addiction or is it then considered a dependency?
I've always understood addictions needed to be feed more and more of whatever in order to maintain. In other words, the person needs more before getting to the place that is comfortable without feelings of withdrawal. My smoking habit never went past a certain point. For years I smoked a pack a day. Most of us leveled out when we hit our maximum need.
It is all so confusing....
As a vaper, I am able to lower the nic content in the liquids I'm using. I could never cut back on how many a day I smoked.
There are psychological dependencies and physical dependencies that vaping addresses. The habit is the easiest one to pinpoint. If I'm just sitting around, vaping or smoking helped me relax. I don't know what it's like without either of those. I can't imagine my life just sitting and watching TV and having my hands in my lap, not doing anything. I must have been able to before I started smoking, I just don't remember doing nothing while sitting there.
The dependency/addiction is a bit harder to nail down. I don't know how many of you ever got the phantom smoke smell when you were at about or past the point for Needing a cigarette. During the workday, if I got super busy to take my self imposed scheduled break, my body sure let me know it was past time for that nic hit. I would smell a cigarette burning even in a non smoking building. I've had this happen once since I started vaping and that was after a year of vaping. I'm not quite sure there is no addiction to nic, but I believe that the addiction is not nearly as strong.
Can addictions vary in strength? Can an addiction lessen but still be present? If the addiction can lessen, is it still considered an addiction or is it then considered a dependency?
I've always understood addictions needed to be feed more and more of whatever in order to maintain. In other words, the person needs more before getting to the place that is comfortable without feelings of withdrawal. My smoking habit never went past a certain point. For years I smoked a pack a day. Most of us leveled out when we hit our maximum need.
It is all so confusing....
That's because the word Addiction has a Different Meaning depending on who you ask.
So when a Group of People get together and Use the Same Word to Describe Themselves, Others or the Effect that a Chemical May or May Not have on Themselves/Others, it is Hard to Equate how Their Meaning of the Word Applies to Your Meaning of the Word.
Rule #1 in a Non-Confusing Conversation: Agree on what the Meaning of All the Words that are Going to be Used in a Conversation.
This is why it is Easier to Talk with People you Know Well and that Know you Well. When they hear you use a Word like Addiction, they run it thru their Mental De-Coder Ring and Apply Your Meaning to Theirs on the Fly.
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