To all my ecf brothers and sisters.....please read.

[Colonel]

You must have attended the same school of dramatic forum writing that Levitas did.

No one is planning a vape out at Starbucks. They're asking the company to change their policy. It's pretty much the most polite storming possible.

How do you really think that change is possible unless you notify a company that your unhappy with their policy and may not go there? It's been pretty effective in the past with a host of issues.

Issues Such as?

 

[WAC_Vet]

lol and you've staed yourself as well AFAIK the kids now wear ACUs. the bdu went the way of the fatigues. I miss my jungle cammies...

ACUs? Are they the new digital ones I've been seeing on post? They are sooooo ugly! Many here still have the BDUs. I loved my fatigues...... I wore the men's fatigues, for safety reasons.

 

[Uncle Willie]

Whether we like to admit it or not, other than those that toke a 0 nic blend, we're still all addicts ..

The debate over where and when it is appropriate to use an e-cig will rage on .. the health issues good or bad, will rage on .. I don't think I'm seeing any mind changing going on with this thread or any other ..

As the tech becomes more common .. more places will take notice and decide what they feel is appropriate use or not .. the choice any place makes will likely be based on perception as well as non-user feedback .. there is no way around that ..

Congrats to those that choose anywhere and everywhere both openly and covertly .. however, there is just no argument that's going to sway my feeling that respect for current smoking laws is the best way to go ..

 

[Colonel]

You must have attended the same school of dramatic forum writing that Levitas did.

No one is planning a vape out at Starbucks. They're asking the company to change their policy. It's pretty much the most polite storming possible.

How do you really think that change is possible unless you notify a company that your unhappy with their policy and may not go there? It's been pretty effective in the past with a host of issues.

My posts on here are dramatic. Not too much so I hope. But it keeps a smile on my face.

Also, my posts are a reply to the topic at hand. Your right. It wasn't a planned vape out. It was a suggested boycott of Starbucks. I hope that makes a bit more sense. I'm not saying don't vape in public. Honestly the only reason I don't is cause I rarely have a chance. I vape on planes all the time. In my seat. As stealth as possible. I'm saying if a business asks for no vaping. Then don't push it. I'm agreeing with the original post. Banning a business back because they banned vaping is childish and does not represent the good intentions of former smokers. I'm glad that many Dr's, including your mom's and mine and my dentist advocate vaping. It will get around in time. It's growing rapidly.

But I don't want to be lumped in with radicals who go over the top to get their voice heard. Just relax. Surround yourself with good rational people (dr's tend to be) and let vaping grow to become an acceptable practice. Or at least as accepted as it can. You will never be allowed to do it everywhere. That's common sense. But let's do
It right.

Again. Should ECF members rally against companies like Starbucks (alleged ban on PV's) and boycott them? Or should we rally together and just expose people who don't mind or even want to learn more?

That question was as non-dramatic as I get. Lol. To be more dramatic, should we act as vengeful A holes, or pleasant, accommodating patrons of society? Where did I leave my thesaurus? I'm running dry.

 

[Colonel]

Whether we like to admit it or not, other than those that toke a 0 nic blend, we're still all addicts ..

The debate over where and when it is appropriate to use an e-cig will rage on .. the health issues good or bad, will rage on .. I don't think I'm seeing any mind changing going on with this thread or any other ..

As the tech becomes more common .. more places will take notice and decide what they feel is appropriate use or not .. the choice any place makes will likely be based on perception as well as non-user feedback .. there is no way around that ..

Congrats to those that choose anywhere and everywhere both openly and covertly .. however, there is just no argument that's going to sway my feeling that respect for current smoking laws is the best way to go ..

Well put Willy. I wish I had figured out a nice tactful way to be loyal to vaping but tolerant of ignorance like you did. Good show man.

 

[scinsc]

Everything about vaping is speculative at this point. Everything. Such as, who made your liquid? Oh. The Vapor Room? No they mixed it. Who manufactured your pharmaceutical grade nicotine liquid prior to dilution and flavoring? If you don't even know who made it, then how would you expect me to believe you know what's in it? And if you do know that, why would I take your word that it's safe? Oh, I should search for vague studies on the web? Sure thing. You're right, I should go spend my weekend reading up on your addiction before I head out to get a soy grande latte at my favorite public place to make sure it's ok that I be there while you're vaping. Because you can't wait for the 11second expresso drip to finish without taking a drag. That makes perfect sense.

You have a very narrow view of what is acceptable in public. What you are saying here could apply to almost anything. Do you know who picked the coffee beans you are using? And how they were processed? God knows what kind of soaking the beans are subjected to between Colombia and New Jersey. Do you know if the employees at an establishment wash their hands regularly or have some kind of flu bug?
Everyone that goes out in public takes a certain amount of risk as to who and what they come in contact with. There are multitudes of things people would rather not smell or ingest or even see or hear but we are all subjected to those kinds of things every time we venture out. The question is does the PV cause a greater risk to others anymore than thousands of things we come in contact with. The eliquid should be the focus and the nicotine in particular. I would be willing to bet that if the general public knew the amount of nicotine from the breath of a PV user they would have no problem with it at all. I certainly don’t see bans on nicotine gum.

 

[Uncle Willie]

Banning a business back because they banned vaping is childish and does not represent the good intentions of former smokers.

Again. Should ECF members rally against companies like Starbucks (alleged ban on PV's) and boycott them? Or should we rally together and just expose people who don't mind or even want to learn more?

I don't think a boycott would have a whole lot of financial impact at this point ..

What hurts the industry is individuals like the guy asked to stop on a plane a day or two ago, went ballistic and got arrested .. regardless of his mental state, the e-cig he attempted to use was part of every news story I saw .. from CNN to local ..

 

[Uncle Willie]

Public acceptance of the e-cig is grounded in years of analog anti-smoking campaigns .. in order to bring that way of thinking back around to acceptance, the public (80% of which don't smoke) .. must be educated as to what we are doing .. that requires more than just a private seminar to each and every individual we may encounter that questions what we are doing or asks us to stop ..

In another thread, the OP talks about the United Kingdom having actual ads running on TV and what not .. I have yet to see any real effort by the makers / vendors / whatever to actually put the product more into the mainstream .. and I don't know why .. I suspect fear and greed .. fear that advertising will prompt more Governmental attention .. greed because ads cost money ..

 

[Colonel]

You have a very narrow view of what is acceptable in public. What you are saying here could apply to almost anything. Do you know who picked the coffee beans you are using? And how they were processed? God knows what kind of soaking the beans are subjected to between Colombia and New Jersey. Do you know if the employees at an establishment wash their hands regularly or have some kind of flu bug?
Everyone that goes out in public takes a certain amount of risk as to who and what they come in contact with. There are multitudes of things people would rather not smell or ingest or even see or hear but we are all subjected to those kinds of things every time we venture out. The question is does the PV cause a greater risk to others anymore than thousands of things we come in contact with. The eliquid should be the focus and the nicotine in particular. I would be willing to bet that if the general public knew the amount of nicotine from the breath of a PV user they would have no problem with it at all. I certainly don’t see bans on nicotine gum.

But I don't poor my coffee on other people. I don't vaporize it into the air. And other people don't inhale it.

Lol. And I was accused of being dramatic. If you want to expand the crusade to include caffeine and food service sanitation standards, go ahead. The topic on this thread is private (yes private facilities) bans on vaping. And wether or not those bans deserve action via standoffs and boycotts.

Thinking about it. I bet if you had a coffee vaporizer, you might be asked to not do that in certain places too.
Lmao, what's this? Oh. It's coffee vapor. Colombian breakfast blend.

 

[Colonel]

I don't think a boycott would have a whole lot of financial impact at this point ..

What hurts the industry is individuals like the guy asked to stop on a plane a day or two ago, went ballistic and got arrested .. regardless of his mental state, the e-cig he attempted to use was part of every news story I saw .. from CNN to local ..

Here is a story on it.

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post/2011/07/unruly-flier-hurls-snacks/176813/1

Awesome. Those ecig people think they can do it anywhere and act like a holes when they can't. Maybe we should just ban them all together.

Wow. That wasn't a far leap. This guy did not take the high road.

 

[mohawkx]

You have a very narrow view of what is acceptable in public. What you are saying here could apply to almost anything. Do you know who picked the coffee beans you are using? And how they were processed? God knows what kind of soaking the beans are subjected to between Colombia and New Jersey. Do you know if the employees at an establishment wash their hands regularly or have some kind of flu bug?
Everyone that goes out in public takes a certain amount of risk as to who and what they come in contact with. There are multitudes of things people would rather not smell or ingest or even see or hear but we are all subjected to those kinds of things every time we venture out. The question is does the PV cause a greater risk to others anymore than thousands of things we come in contact with. The eliquid should be the focus and the nicotine in particular. I would be willing to bet that if the general public knew the amount of nicotine from the breath of a PV user they would have no problem with it at all. I certainly don’t see bans on nicotine gum.

With all due respect, I think you're preaching to the choir on this one. Everyone in this thread knows the arguements for e-cigs over cigarettes. That's not the issue. Try convincing Aunt Mary at the family reunion of this. She's watched you smoke at every gathering for the last 30 years and now you're huffing on a black tailpipe and exhaling what looks to be smoke from it. Try convincing her you're not smoking. Perceptions will only change over time and very slowly at that. I expect that it will take at least 5 family barbeques, 3 Thanksgiving dinners and a couple Christmas days before Aunt Mary grudgingly accepts the fact that I'm not smoking anymore.

 

[Levitas]

You must have attended the same school of dramatic forum writing that Levitas did.

Comments like this make me uncomfortable and are why I no longer wish to participate in this discussion. You're insulting, and ignorant. Have you no respect for ECF or the rules? Attack the post, not the poster.

 

[swedishfish]

My posts on here are dramatic. Not too much so I hope. But it keeps a smile on my face.

Also, my posts are a reply to the topic at hand. Your right. It wasn't a planned vape out. It was a suggested boycott of Starbucks. I hope that makes a bit more sense. I'm not saying don't vape in public. Honestly the only reason I don't is cause I rarely have a chance. I vape on planes all the time. In my seat. As stealth as possible. I'm saying if a business asks for no vaping. Then don't push it. I'm agreeing with the original post. Banning a business back because they banned vaping is childish and does not represent the good intentions of former smokers. I'm glad that many Dr's, including your mom's and mine and my dentist advocate vaping. It will get around in time. It's growing rapidly.

But I don't want to be lumped in with radicals who go over the top to get their voice heard. Just relax. Surround yourself with good rational people (dr's tend to be) and let vaping grow to become an acceptable practice. Or at least as accepted as it can. You will never be allowed to do it everywhere. That's common sense. But let's do
It right.

Again. Should ECF members rally against companies like Starbucks (alleged ban on PV's) and boycott them? Or should we rally together and just expose people who don't mind or even want to learn more?

That question was as non-dramatic as I get. Lol. To be more dramatic, should we act as vengeful A holes, or pleasant, accommodating patrons of society? Where did I leave my thesaurus? I'm running dry.

I understand that, and I was joking around.

I really do think this is serious business though. I read the posts from ECF members from other countries where vaping isn't allowed; hell it's illegal. And they're forced to smoke or try to come up with a way to go get pvs or get juice. I just think that if we sit back there is a real possiblility that it could happen here.

 

[swedishfish]

Comments like this make me uncomfortable and are why I no longer wish to participate in this discussion. You're insulting, and ignorant. Have you no respect for ECF or the rules? Attack the post, not the poster.

That smile meant I was joking Levitas. I've joked around with you in the past. I didn't think it was an issue or I wouldn't have said it. With that said, you do have a tendency when you quote another poster to throw in some things that the poster didn't say. We all tend to do that. I do it as well but you seem to feel or give the impression that everyone that disagreed with you was insulting you. That wasn't the case with everyone on here. Some maybe, but not everyone.

BTW, this was the comment I was referring to and why I used the dramatic comment again. You painted everyone that didn't agree with you with a pretty broad brush.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...thers-sisters-please-read-45.html#post3652156

 

[Levitas]

That smile meant I was joking Levitas. I've joked around with you in the past. I didn't think it was an issue or I wouldn't have said it. With that said, you do have a tendency when you quote another poster to throw in some things that the poster didn't say. We all tend to do that. I do it as well but you seem to feel or give the impression that everyone that disagreed with you was insulting you. That wasn't the case with everyone on here. Some maybe, but not everyone.

Well, then, I apologize for coming to hasty conclusions. None the less though, everyone here has opinions and most are pretty strong. Calling someone dramatic because of those opinions isn't cool. If you've been following the discussion, you would already of known that my views aren't exactly the most popular and adding a comment such as that might be taken a little differently, given the situation. I was backed into a corner for expressing my opinions by many vapers in this thread. My values and opinions were twisted to suit some ulterior agenda of those who do not wish to accept any validity in my ideas or thoughts.

The point is, I'm sorry for making it seem like it was more. But, at the same time, given the nature of the situation, do you really think a comment like that would've been taken as a joke, without clarification (not just a smiley face)? Just sayin'

Edit: "Careful Colonel, this thread is not for the open-minded. You'll sooner find the need to defend your opinion against those who might believe that you have no right to think in the way that you may. Those who might say it's more harmful to stay silent in light of vaping bans, most of those who believe that will be first in line to keep you silent on your opinion in this very thread." - Levitas

I did not say that everyone would do this. I said there will be some who do this, and I am not wrong. I did not tell him not to post, I told him to be careful. It was a fair warning. Do you deny that some would do anything they can to disprove any validity in a claim or opinion that doesn't suit their own? Let alone degrade someone personally, in order to try and make their point?

 

[mohawkx]

I understand that, and I was joking around.

I really do think this is serious business though. I read the posts from ECF members from other countries where vaping isn't allowed; hell it's illegal. And they're forced to smoke or try to come up with a way to go get pvs or get juice. I just think that if we sit back there is a real possiblility that it could happen here.

In all honesty, I believe that we've passed that threshold already. FDA had the opportunity to declare e-cigs a pharmeceutical and put very heavy restrictions on it's usage and ban it without a perscription. Instead they declared it a tobacco device and as such, it will be no more regulated than cigarettes, cigars or pipes. These products are readily available but taxed heavily. I would expect that e-cigs will be just as available and just as heavily taxed in the future. IMO, we are actually experiencing the golden age of vaping right now. Unlimited access to products, untaxed and rapid innovation in the industry. Once FDA finalizes their regulations in the next two years the game will change, but a total ban.......I don't think so. FDA has progressed beyond that point.

Public perception and acceptance is a whole different can of worms though. This thread, although it may make some uncomfortable is a very good exercise in discussing how we approach the issue of "Public Perception" within the vaping community. We just must remember that we are all on the same side in the overall scheme of things.

 

[swedishfish]

Well, then, I apologize for coming to hasty conclusions. None the less though, everyone here has opinions and most are pretty strong. Calling someone dramatic because of those opinions isn't cool. If you've been following the discussion, you would already of known that my views aren't exactly the most popular and adding a comment such as that might be taken a little differently, given the situation. I was backed into a corner for expressing my opinions by many vapers in this thread. My values and opinions were twisted to suit some ulterior agenda of those who do not wish to accept any validity in my ideas or thoughts.

The point is, I'm sorry for making it seem like it was more. But, at the same time, given the nature of the situation, do you really think a comment like that would've been taken as a joke, without clarification (not just a smiley face)? Just sayin'

I really apologize if that came out wrong. I don't necessarily agree with you but your posts are very thoughtful. This whole thing frustrates me. I'm not even one of those people that is necessarily against the FDA. I think they have their place. But their position has been changed in the past due to public outcry, or people being frustrated with their stalling. They sat on AIDs drugs until they were pushed to approve them. Even saccherine in the 60's. Congress over-ruled their ban. So it can happen. It took Cheney getting stents for them to approve them. And they did have doctors siding with them.

 

[WAC_Vet]

Public acceptance of the e-cig is grounded in years of analog anti-smoking campaigns .. in order to bring that way of thinking back around to acceptance, the public (80% of which don't smoke) .. must be educated as to what we are doing .. that requires more than just a private seminar to each and every individual we may encounter that questions what we are doing or asks us to stop ..

In another thread, the OP talks about the United Kingdom having actual ads running on TV and what not .. I have yet to see any real effort by the makers / vendors / whatever to actually put the product more into the mainstream .. and I don't know why .. I suspect fear and greed .. fear that advertising will prompt more Governmental attention .. greed because ads cost money ..

Until those in the industry wake up and start an ad campaign, the only thing we got is ourselves, spreading the word! The more people see older folks (no offense to the younger people) vaping, especially conservative looking types, business types, Grandma and Grandpa types, at home, at work, etc., the more accepted it will become. Many people see this as a young people's fad, or a smoker's way of smoking when he/she can't. They need to see people vaping outdoors, where smokers aren't banned... on the street, mowing a lawn, etc., to show that given a choice, we don't smoke, we vape.

I really do not know why businesses here in the States aren't advertising in the main stream media. Possibly it's due to the cost of advertising, and the fear that they won't recoup what they spend on the advertising?

 

[Uncle Willie]

I really do not know why businesses here in the States aren't advertising in the main stream media. Possibly it's due to the cost of advertising, and the fear that they won't recoup what they spend on the advertising?

A a business owner for 35 years, never have I ever seen a product that has such obvious appeal not yet being properly marketed .. companies crank out an infomercial on anything that folks can come up with, some products that are nothing but junk ..

Yet, here we have a device that actually works, could be beneficial for a large number of folks (millions) .. and if properly presented, could make an absolute ton of money .. what's not to like .. ??

 

[Uncle Willie]

I liked my last post so well, I started a new thread ..

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...advertising-infomercials-yet.html#post3653062