Who here is not stocking up in preparation for the May 12th, 2020 Deadline?
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You realize that the PG or VG part of the "base" isn't really essential, right?
I'm not sure they care that much about the DIY crowd.
But after they've killed off the juice makers, and Jman's black market becomes a thing, and there's a whole lot of agitation in the media about it, then they'll probably feel like they have no choice but to try to cut off the flow of nic-base.
I would appreciate if everyone reading this, whenever using the black market in the future, please ask the dealer if he is Jman. If he (or she) says no, you say, "I really thought this was Jman's black market." At the very least, be sure to mention my name for a 20% discount.
I'm pretty sure that was kind of his point?You realize that the PG or VG part of the "base" isn't really essential, right?
I can mention Hitler for ya. In his infamous book, Mein Kampf, he wrote that absolute power over society can be gained by convincing the population of the idea that children are the most valuable asset there is─children, who are now being "protected" by enacting the kind of regulations that will create a black market where, currently, there obviously isn't one so, like it or not, the final truth is winning WWII will not have mattered one bit if this trend is allowed to proliferate.
I believe that children are our future.
Its a dim looking future overall but selfie technology will only get better
I believe children can be abused by turning them into the kind of weapon the ultimate purpose of which will be the demise of our future. Neo-liberal perseverance, populism, and polarization through propagandist strategies endorsed in the media all rapidly break down society because letting stuff burn is multiple billions of times easier than building a decent future because, decency should not have to be expendable.
You realize that the PG or VG part of the "base" isn't really essential, right?
Yes, I realize that. Can nicotine, not mixed into a VG/PG base be purchased by an average consumer? I have never seen it for sale, but that does not mean it is not possible which could mean any future regulations may overlook this. OR…perhaps it has been looked into, but regulatory agencies feel it is just too complex for the average Joe.
I can’t predict what is going to happen in the US. But by looking at other regions, regulations have been implemented to control what is most commonly used. Nicotine in the form of a VG/PG base is commonly used to manufacture e-juice. In Canada this nicotine product has been regulated, and done so without affecting any other industry accept the vaping market.
In the context of this thread, where we are discussing making preparations for any future changes, ie: stocking up, and any future legalities on the products we use for vaping. I feel it is important to note that nicotine in it’s processed form of a PG/VG base can be affected.
Today nicotine in many concentrations including 100% pure is available for sale. Will that be true after May 20th? I don't know. In the mean time nic is so cheap to buy and has such a long shelf life, if stored properly, the practical thing to do is buy enough for 10 - 20 years and be done with it. Another cause for concern is proposals in Congress to tax nic. One current bill would put a $2500 tax on a bottle that costs $50 today.
If a Company does Not have an Approved PMTA, or a pending PMTA on file with the FDA for their Nicotine Base, why would they be Allowed to sell it to an Individual in a US Market after the Drop Dead Date?
Assuming that the Nicotine in the Nicotine Base was derived from Tobacco.
Well, according to the latest "Final Guidance" by FDA, such sales haven't been "allowed" since August of 2016, and it's really just question of whether the FDA chooses to enforce their own regulations. So from the perspective, nothing really changes this coming May; it will remain a question whether they choose to enforce, or not.
And if it isn't derived from tobacco, they can just call it an "unapproved drug".
Technically correct. But the previous FDA Commissionaire wanted a Grace Period for those who wished to file a PMTA. And took a more Look the Other Way approach so as to preserve the e-Cigarette Market.
That Isn't going to happen this time around. Not with All that has Gone On.
I have Little Doubt that the Deeming Rule Set will be anything but Fully Enforced.
That seems Almost 100% Certain.
I understand the current availability of nicotine. But openly discussing on what could happen to this product might be enough to inform users so they may act accordingly.
Other countries have regulated this form of nicotine and I do not think the US is void of following suit. Nor do I think the US is void of doing something outlandish, such as apply a ridiculous amount of tax as you have implied. We are starting to see examples of this – the province of Vancouver has slapped a 20% tax on all vaping products. That includes VG/PG based nicotine that is already under a Canadian regulation.
My understanding is vape manufacturers in the US can continue too manufacture but without the PTMA it may only be exported, not sold at retail in the US. Manufacturers need inputs. If they can't buy nicotine the PTMA application is not worthwhile. Who will submit the PTMA for nicotine when it is the identical material from dozens of sellers? So I wonder, what authority will the FDA use to regulate nicotine. How will they decide who can buy it and who cannot or will that be left unregulated. The FDA and juice makers know the answers. We don't.
Makes sense. I understand that if an e-juice manufacture wishes to sell within the US, an application needs to be submitted to the PMTA. Their product will be tested to ensure its ingredients complies. If a nicotine processor wishes to sell its product for the purpose of vaping, does it too require a PMTA application? VG/PG based nicotine is sold on its own for this very purpose, some are even marketed for vaping. I do not know the intricate details of the PMTA but do feel that needs to be identified.
Also heard rumblings that US manufactures may continue without a PMTA approval as long it is for export only. But my thoughts are… if user statistics are any way accurate, the US accounts for approx. 1/4 of the vaping market. Losing a market share of that size will have a ripple effect worldwide. Not saying vaping will go the way of the Dodo bird and fall into extinction – but there will be loses.
You guys talking abut PMTA's might get the answers you seek in this thread: Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
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