Wizard Labs Nic Base Reviews
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Whatever I can get cheap
Normally, a hotbox VV w/2x14500 (backup standard 3.7v and a mini eGo-circuit driven mod w/2x10440's in parallel).I'm typically around 8.5 watts, and most often dripping on a 306 or 510 (favorite is the 306 dripping atty @ SmartVapes). Occasionally a carto (boges or smok dcs) or else a cotton wicked stardust.
Welp, im stumped. You are definitely putting at least enough power thru your juice for good TH. I could see how the starsust or cartos would minimize or somewhat eliminate TH, but you're direct dripping alot. Im usually around 8-9 watts on VV so Im stumped.
Comparing 2 batches of Nic juice and measurement methods.
I've characterized most of my glassware by weighing the glass empty and with distilled water. For my cylinders I weighed at the major divisions, and the volumetric flasks at the reference mark. This is really a little above and beyond for a kitchen mix lab but, fun none the less. I then took the various ingredients for my DIY e-juice and determined the density of each. I tried to keep the temperature relatively constant when doing this, at 22C.
I even compensated the liquid weights for buoyancy since scales are calibrated in 'apparent mass vs SS, 8.0g/cc'. Sound A-retentive enough?
Both of the Nic juices were 100mg/ml from the same vendor but different ages.
You can probably identify the older batch And you can see from the detail photos that both methods missed the mark by a little, and I still have bubbles to clear. I'll determine the error after the juice has cleared by bringing each up to the reference mark of the flask.
The mix on the right was done by using my density determinations of the liquids and weighing the ingredients as they were added to the flask.
The mix on the left was done volumetrically by using corrected values for my graduated cylinders (determined with the distilled water weighting). I weighed the cylinders to determine how much was left behind after transfer.
Note that the column height looks different due to the location of the 250ml reference marks. The levels will drop just a little more as the bubbles clear but will probably end up within half a ml of 250ml each. I obviously didn't see much, if any compaction with either mix. Several months back I thought I had seen this phenomenon, but I'll just chalk it up to carelessness for now.
The left mix is mine (14.5mg/ml) and the right one for the wife (14.3mg/ml) to be flavored and thinned later to about 12mg/ml. I'll run the blue-drip-titration on one just to confirm.
Just to let everyone know, I agree this is overkill for making 12mg/ml juice
I've characterized most of my glassware by weighing the glass empty and with distilled water. For my cylinders I weighed at the major divisions, and the volumetric flasks at the reference mark. This is really a little above and beyond for a kitchen mix lab but, fun none the less. I then took the various ingredients for my DIY e-juice and determined the density of each. I tried to keep the temperature relatively constant when doing this, at 22C.
I even compensated the liquid weights for buoyancy since scales are calibrated in 'apparent mass vs SS, 8.0g/cc'. Sound A-retentive enough?
Both of the Nic juices were 100mg/ml from the same vendor but different ages.
You can probably identify the older batch
And you can see from the detail photos that both methods missed the mark by a little, and I still have bubbles to clear. I'll determine the error after the juice has cleared by bringing each up to the reference mark of the flask. The mix on the right was done by using my density determinations of the liquids and weighing the ingredients as they were added to the flask.
The mix on the left was done volumetrically by using corrected values for my graduated cylinders (determined with the distilled water weighting). I weighed the cylinders to determine how much was left behind after transfer.
Note that the column height looks different due to the location of the 250ml reference marks. The levels will drop just a little more as the bubbles clear but will probably end up within half a ml of 250ml each. I obviously didn't see much, if any compaction with either mix. Several months back I thought I had seen this phenomenon, but I'll just chalk it up to carelessness for now.
The left mix is mine (14.5mg/ml) and the right one for the wife (14.3mg/ml) to be flavored and thinned later to about 12mg/ml. I'll run the blue-drip-titration on one just to confirm.
Just to let everyone know, I agree this is overkill for making 12mg/ml juice
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Rocketman..... what the... huh? Whoa... wait a... what?
What are you doin? I got no idea what you are talking about... rotfl.
What are you doin? I got no idea what you are talking about... rotfl.
And I thought I had too much time on my hands.... you got me beat! By a longshot!
I'm retired, and it's Father's day weekend.
Everyone here knows better than to ask me to do anything productive
Everyone here knows better than to ask me to do anything productive
Which brings up a good point about the difference in glass vs. polypropylene (plastic) labware.
I usually recommend the less expensive polypropylene for working with nic base as it has a non-wetting surface which helps drain viscous liquids like glycerin quicker and more completely.
Eliquids tend to cling to the walls of glass labware leaving some behind when transferred to another container.
The downside is that plastics may absorb odors from flavorings if you use them to mix full recipes instead of just unflavored nic base.
To help drain glass cylinders, you can setup a hands-free incline using another piece of labware, drinking glass, or anything else that's the right height and "hooks" the base of the cylinder so it doesn't move.
Kurt had asked me about this a while back when he was investigating the compaction theory.
At the time I hadn't witnessed it myself, and since non of my titrations ever showed anything abnormal I had no reason for suspicion.
When you posted a couple of months ago about it, I mixed up a 10ml cylinder of 100mg/ml as a co-experiment to your own.
I calibrated the cylinder using the density of distilled water at the ambient temperature and found it to be 1% in error reading one 0.1ml graduation lower.
Using a class A volumetric pipette and balance, I mixed a 100mg/ml PG solution in the calibrated cylinder and found that on initial mixing there was no compaction evident.
The 10ml of nic sol matched the same level as the 10ml of distilled water.
I capped it and stuck it on the shelf until this morning when I pulled it down and snapped a photo.
After almost 2 months time at room temp, the volume of the solution remains the same, just a hair below the 9.9ml mark where it started.
Although I wouldn't state a definite conclusion from a single example, at this point I'm starting to lean towards human error as well.
I'll have to follow-up with Kurt when I get the chance and see if he's found out anything different.
Sorry for the hijack, and Happy Father's Day!
Thanks for the tips John. Must be nice getting to work in a real lab.
I have to share mine with the wife. She's taken control of the KLS for now doing chemistry for dinner.
Sometimes you just have to make do with what you have, such as a home made pipette clamp and aquarium valve flow control (please ignore the Mason jar)
http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae132/rocketman_photos/The_KLS.jpg
I have to share mine with the wife. She's taken control of the KLS for now doing chemistry for dinner.
Sometimes you just have to make do with what you have, such as a home made pipette clamp and aquarium valve flow control (please ignore the Mason jar)
http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae132/rocketman_photos/The_KLS.jpg
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Thanks for the tips John. Must be nice getting to work in a real lab.
I have to share mine with the wife. She's taken control of the KLS for now doing chemistry for dinner.
Sometimes you just have to make do with what you have, such as a home made pipette clamp and aquarium valve flow control (please ignore the Mason jar)
http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae132/rocketman_photos/The_KLS.jpg
LOL
All things considered, if I was a betting man I'd put my money on the know-it-all MacGyver rocket scientist in the kitchen lab.
My nic mixes are still not perfectly clear of bubbles yet but I'm going forward. The older nic (left) required 0.8ml (PG) to top off to the 250ml mark, and the newer batch 0.9ml.
I drew off 10ml of each for experimentation and will flavor and dilute the remaining 240ml of each.
My calculations predicted a nic strength of 14.5mg/ml and 14.3mg/ml.
Using 3ml of nic juice for the blue drip test I came up with 14.3mg/ml and 14.0mg/ml.
By the time I got this down to 3ml in a botlle, then added the blue, you couldn't tell them apart.
Hope I didn't get them mixed up at the end
Flavored thinned mixed.
10ml Distilled water (each mix contains 173ml of VG), 15ml RedBull, 15ml Black Cherry in each.
Might be ready to vape test tomorrow. Photo of small samples of the finished product.
I drew off 10ml of each for experimentation and will flavor and dilute the remaining 240ml of each.
My calculations predicted a nic strength of 14.5mg/ml and 14.3mg/ml.
Using 3ml of nic juice for the blue drip test I came up with 14.3mg/ml and 14.0mg/ml.
By the time I got this down to 3ml in a botlle, then added the blue, you couldn't tell them apart.
Hope I didn't get them mixed up at the end
Flavored thinned mixed.
10ml Distilled water (each mix contains 173ml of VG), 15ml RedBull, 15ml Black Cherry in each.
Might be ready to vape test tomorrow. Photo of small samples of the finished product.
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LOL, thanks, but no, I don't quite think that's it. Honestly, I think it's something close the opposite: vaping is just plain damaging to my throat some days and some nic juices seem otherwise to quickly desensitize my throat. There are times I wake up with a very dry, usuall sore throat that no amount of drinking water, lemon seltzer, or whatever before bed the night before could quite treat - I usually see these mornings coming now. These are the mornings after the days I vaped too much, and of the wrong juice(s). There probably are also days mixed in that, at some time that day, I was too lazy to get up and grab a water when I really needed one and instead just kept on vaping.
At the moment, I have juices that are all over the place in terms of the base mix, but I've decided upon mixing large batches of two standard bases going forward. One will only be used for some of the tobaccos or otherwise bold juices; those ones that are nice with nic that has an extra kick. This will be Wizard Labs "Fire" @ 25mg 60/40 PG/VG. I have just 5 red or purple colored caps that'll be reserved for those mixes (they are of course also labeled, albeit in re-re-re-written sharpie...yes, I could use a better system). The other base will be Wizard Labs "Ice" @ 21mg 40/60 PG/VG for the remainder of my juice, probably including some overlap with the same tobaccos also in "Fire" edition.
Hopefully then, I'll better observe what I'm vaping and manage to keep my throat happy all day every day.
@ rocketman...I could never keep up with a discussion with you about this stuff. I can imagine that 3rd-wheel feeling setting in immediately if you, John, and I sat down for coffee one day. LOL
May I just say then: nice job on the pictures
(same to you John).
May I just say then: nice job on the pictures
(same to you John).
Wolcen, ya know if you are getting your throat that irritated and its causing you problems... you may want to seriously consider vaping all VG. At least for several days to see if that clears up completely. It could be you have some issues with PG. Its well known to cause dryness and irritation, among other things.
I vape like a freight train most of the day and I have zero issues with my throat or lungs. And as Ive said plenty of times the only PG I use is from flavoring. Try an 80%vg/20% flavoring+dw mix for several days and see what happens. It cant hurt to try and see if those issues will clear up.
Note, I like you also forget to get up and grab water or something to drink when I really should alot.
Maybe youll find all VG to be a better fit. I can tell you like throat hit but how much is too much, and is it worth it if its irritating you? I dunno.
Also if you are vaping things like cinnamon, you may wanna stop that too for a lil bit. Dunno if you are or not.
I vape like a freight train most of the day and I have zero issues with my throat or lungs. And as Ive said plenty of times the only PG I use is from flavoring. Try an 80%vg/20% flavoring+dw mix for several days and see what happens. It cant hurt to try and see if those issues will clear up.
Note, I like you also forget to get up and grab water or something to drink when I really should alot.
Maybe youll find all VG to be a better fit. I can tell you like throat hit but how much is too much, and is it worth it if its irritating you? I dunno.
Also if you are vaping things like cinnamon, you may wanna stop that too for a lil bit. Dunno if you are or not.
Thanks buffaloguy. Probably the biggest thing against me right now is the lack of consistent mixes as well as a lack of discipline. I have a couple PG's from different places, one VG, and 4 nics. This is another reason why I'm going to just two mixing bases - with just two easily identifiable bases, I'm in a much better position to put my finger on what does/might not work well for me with a minimum investiment in discipline (that's a self-perpetuating thing, you see). I do like 100%VG as well, and may attempt to go that direction. I'm more "comfortable" with that long-term anyway. Perhaps a third base is in order (VG Ice)...let's see...I've got a number of green caps
I have tried cinnamon (good point there). Doesn't seem to be an issue, but I only have that once in a while.
I have tried cinnamon (good point there). Doesn't seem to be an issue, but I only have that once in a while.
@ rocketman...I could never keep up with a discussion with you about this stuff. I can imagine that 3rd-wheel feeling setting in immediately if you, John, and I sat down for coffee one day. LOL
May I just say then: nice job on the pictures
Sorry if it sounded like that. I normally don't go to that much effort when preparing my mixes. 70/30 or 60/40 VG/PG, or ending up with 13mg/ml instead of 12mg/ml really doesn't matter too much to the wife and I. She'll let me know if it needs a tad more Redbull, or I'll spice up the nic content for me to 13.45mg/ml or so. Using extreme care in the kitchen lab it seems possible to get ratios and strength to a tad better than 1%. Using less precise methods and a couple percent is more likely. Enough to notice? Maybe. Get sloppy in the kitchen and you will definitely notice batch to batch variations. Error percentages will likely be higher for smaller batches. As measurement volumes get smaller, the accuracy usually gets worse. For example, a 5ml pipette I have has 0.1ml divisions, with a stated accuracy of 0.02ml (1/5 division). While 0.02 ml sounds great, that's about 0.7% for a 3ml measurement.
Sloppy? More than one drop of any ingredient spilled is sloppy. One drop is forgiven
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Don't feel bad... I have to google half the stuff he says just to try and keep up myself.
Speaking of which, to expand a little on Rocket's accuracy and error margins, the stated accuracy on any labware is for the labware itself at the stated temperature, and doesn't take into account the human error of reading it or expansion/contraction at a different temp... which is probably something you'll only see a rocket scientist worry about figuring out.
A general rule of thumb for human error when reading the curved meniscus in glass labware is half a graduation.
(On a sidenote, the difference I mentioned above between the hydrophobic nature of plastic and the hydrophilic nature of glass labware is what causes the curved meniscus in a glass cylinder but doesn't in a plastic one.)
If you're using a pipette or burette, you're reading it twice.
Once in the beginning, and once at the end, so you need to factor in human error twice.
One last thing, you can help reduce your margin of error by using the right size labware for the job.
Measuring 10ml in a 100ml cylinder is going to be far less accurate than using a 10ml or even a 25ml cylinder due to the difference in the width of the column.
Always use the smallest size graduated labware that will contain the entire volume when measuring your liquids.
Now is all this overkill for mixing a recipe to enjoy? Heck ya!
But if you like geeking out and playing around with labware there's nothing wrong with learning a little more about it.- Status
