Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
- Thread starter Oliver
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I have always been suspect of anyone who uses the term community to describe any political,cultural
or,communal relationship in reference to any aspect of any particular group. This denotes to me
an individuals desire to shape any discussion into channels that benefit their goals at the detriment
of others in the same class they claim to promote.
Bingo @bigdancehawk Any one bringing a court case with out going after the vagueness issues
is just trying to cut out a market share unique to them with out reverting back to the status quo.
It's time to cut up the pie and folks we are not getting a piece.
Regards
Mike
I realize that injecting political views into any discussion is bound to hurt feelings, but I also think we are at a point where it be hooves us all to put on our big-girl panties and focus on the peril at hand- and that peril is, unfortunately, politically driven.
I've followed all 364 pages of this thread. It is the thread, in fact, that brought me back to this site after a long hiatus.
It's no surprise that there are posters here from both sides of the aisle (and even some, like me, who think both sides are filled with traitors and claim neither).
There are, of course, the inevitable 'some who shall remain unnamed' who just want to throw unguided blows with no regard who they land on.
Then there are some who seem to be tired of the fact that it is their normal 'side' who are to blame for much of this, and appear to be resentful for the frequent reminder.
To the first, I would say that there are no reasons to throw blows here, at all. We are ALL on the same side here- the right side. Even if someone is made aware of the political leanings of their chosen party, and still choose to support them, that is ok. We don't have to be one-issue voters. As big a deal as this seems right now, there are other important issues on which to weigh your vote, and you shouldn't vilify someone who may vote a certain way even if it is in support of candidates who don't support vaping.
To the second 'group', I would just offer that this thread, more than maybe any other single point-of-contact on the internet, has been an intellectual discourse on what these new regulations mean and what we can do about them. The simple fact, that has made itself readily apparent muiltiple times, is that the Democrat party's votes have proven them to be against vaping.
This is all, of course, not to say that one can depend on R=pro and D=anti on the topic of vaping, but it is proving to be a very reliable rule of thumb. It would be a shame to ignore this fact, in a discussion about resistance to these regulations, just because it hurts some feelings.
I'd actually go one step further and say that we need a board-sticky pointing out this trend to make as many people aware of it as possible.
While the individual does not need to be a single-issue voter and/or their issue does not necessarily need to be vaping, but this community MUST be, and that issue MUST be vaping.
Flash-forward to January 2017, even if Cole-Bishop were to pass into law in 2016, if a Democrat president, and Democrat lead-house and senate are elected, it WILL be undone. That is fact.
I'm not a Republican. I'm firmly independent, study the issues, and normally vote libertarian where there is an option, but this cycle is too important for me to vote for candidates that have no chance of winning. With the potential for up to 4 SCOTUS seats, serious gun control issues on the gov't radar, and, now, this threat against my (very) delicate mastery over my tobacco addiction at risk, I will be voting R, straight down the ticket.
Regardless how an individual weighs the issues and chooses to cast their vote, the community, and, to whit, this board MUST be single-issue. Failure to recognize the obvious implications of R v. D on this specific issue would just be an illustration of the lack of maturity and inability to do what is necessary to win this war that I ranted about a couple hundred pages ago.
Again, sorry for any hurt feelings, but this is coming from a veteran of a vilified industry, and, I assure you, what I am saying is not driven by emotion. It is driven ENTIRELY by combat experience and battle scars.
Vote your honest conscious and apologize to no one.
And stockpile.
I've followed all 364 pages of this thread. It is the thread, in fact, that brought me back to this site after a long hiatus.
It's no surprise that there are posters here from both sides of the aisle (and even some, like me, who think both sides are filled with traitors and claim neither).
There are, of course, the inevitable 'some who shall remain unnamed' who just want to throw unguided blows with no regard who they land on.
Then there are some who seem to be tired of the fact that it is their normal 'side' who are to blame for much of this, and appear to be resentful for the frequent reminder.
To the first, I would say that there are no reasons to throw blows here, at all. We are ALL on the same side here- the right side. Even if someone is made aware of the political leanings of their chosen party, and still choose to support them, that is ok. We don't have to be one-issue voters. As big a deal as this seems right now, there are other important issues on which to weigh your vote, and you shouldn't vilify someone who may vote a certain way even if it is in support of candidates who don't support vaping.
To the second 'group', I would just offer that this thread, more than maybe any other single point-of-contact on the internet, has been an intellectual discourse on what these new regulations mean and what we can do about them. The simple fact, that has made itself readily apparent muiltiple times, is that the Democrat party's votes have proven them to be against vaping.
This is all, of course, not to say that one can depend on R=pro and D=anti on the topic of vaping, but it is proving to be a very reliable rule of thumb. It would be a shame to ignore this fact, in a discussion about resistance to these regulations, just because it hurts some feelings.
I'd actually go one step further and say that we need a board-sticky pointing out this trend to make as many people aware of it as possible.
While the individual does not need to be a single-issue voter and/or their issue does not necessarily need to be vaping, but this community MUST be, and that issue MUST be vaping.
Flash-forward to January 2017, even if Cole-Bishop were to pass into law in 2016, if a Democrat president, and Democrat lead-house and senate are elected, it WILL be undone. That is fact.
I'm not a Republican. I'm firmly independent, study the issues, and normally vote libertarian where there is an option, but this cycle is too important for me to vote for candidates that have no chance of winning. With the potential for up to 4 SCOTUS seats, serious gun control issues on the gov't radar, and, now, this threat against my (very) delicate mastery over my tobacco addiction at risk, I will be voting R, straight down the ticket.
Regardless how an individual weighs the issues and chooses to cast their vote, the community, and, to whit, this board MUST be single-issue. Failure to recognize the obvious implications of R v. D on this specific issue would just be an illustration of the lack of maturity and inability to do what is necessary to win this war that I ranted about a couple hundred pages ago.
Again, sorry for any hurt feelings, but this is coming from a veteran of a vilified industry, and, I assure you, what I am saying is not driven by emotion. It is driven ENTIRELY by combat experience and battle scars.
Vote your honest conscious and apologize to no one.
And stockpile.
Senior citizen
Disabled - Work related
Comp income - threatened(continually)
SSD - minimal to WC pmts.
Heath waning due to disability
Lost Insurance - Market closed/uninsured
IRS - don't ask
Current non- smoker/VAPER!!! 4yrs.
Increasing cost of living
Yes, we could all make list, and that is only a tiny part of my concerns........However, I will put as much into Saving this industry as any other problem in my life at this time.
Why?
If not for Vapor Products, I might well be 6ft. under right now.
For myself it is no longer about a D or a R behind someones name on a ballot, it is about where they stand on lssues of Importance. This infighting must stop or we will all lose, we as vapors must stand strong and united with single minded determination. Vape on vapors!
Yep. I am now going to vote for Gary Johnson. Made a donation to him last night. He's a little out there for me, but he would definitely be good for Vapors and right now that is all I care about.
Agreed. And it should be.
But, on this issue, the D and the R are appearing to mean something.
Of course, one should study the issues and know where their candidates stand on them, but this issue is fringe enough that you may not be able to discern your entire ballot's standings on it.
If someone were to go behind the curtain with no other knowledge on the issues (which wouldn't be a very good execution of their civic duties), they at least need (deserve) to know that, in general, a vote for an R gives vaping a chance, while a vote for a D dooms it - in GENERAL.
If this board, and the few vocal proponents we have in this community, fail to make that rule of thumb apparent, for fear of hurting some voters' feelings, that will be their own failure.
The community's voice ignoring that fact would be no different, in principle or in outcome, than the FDA ignoring the results of the unbiased studies conducted on vaping by the RCP and others.
I agree. He would be a great guest on Busardo's show.
That is about all he can do for vapers, though, because he stands exactly 0% chance of being your president in 2017, when the legislative outcome of this issue actually matters.
Don't shoot the messenger.
I live in Florida so I know my vote will actually be important but there is no way I can vote for either of the choices we have right now. The choice between two evils is still evil.
D or R ? Who cares?
Where is there anyone on either side of the aisle indicating a personal stake in
the issue? Where is the rep saying I smoked all my life and vaping works?
Where is the rep saying I never smoked but this is working for some one I
know? Where is the rep saying some one i know and loved all my life has taken
this opportunity to make a positive change?
With a total lack of this type of commitment one can only surmise it's all lip
service.
Regards
Mike
Ask yourself. Does he stand a chance of winning? I have no problem with anyone voting on principal. None whatsoever. But they also need to know what their vote counts for.
I am over it and I will be voting on principal unless someone else emerges that is not one of the two evils. Oh please Lord!!!
And, I applaud you for that. Honestly.
That is why I tried so hard to make my point clear that the individual must vote their conscience and not apologize for where it lands them. I TOTALLY get your point about "the lesser of two evils is still evil", and struggle with it myself.
I stand by my statement that the coummunity must voice a vote for the issue, and that vote is republican.
And that vote is for Trump.
I just threw up in my mouth a little.
A few hours ago I pretty much said everything you said and I got accused of being hoodwinked by the Democrats and quoting Emerson.
I don't think either Presidential candidate is concerned with vaping at all and will probably have little to no effect on our future. The only people who have a likely chance of pulling our bacon from the fire is congress or a judge. I'm not feeling warm and fuzzy.
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