Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Rossum]

These kids aint doing anything we didn't do.
Ever heard the tune "smokin' in the boys room"?

Now, teacher, don't you fill me up with your rules...

And it seems as though they did the Joe Camel route and marketed the juul to a younger crowd.

I've watched them since they came out in 2015, when I bought and tried one, and concluded that it might be useful as a backup or stealth vape, but it would never be my primary.

I see no evidence that they ever marketed to under-age people. The fact that the product went viral among the under-age crowd is not evidence that the marketing was aimed at them.

 

[United States]

On social media their ads featured young men barely old enough to shave and Calvin Klein jeans models enjoying a satisfying experience with a look on their face not much different than a cigarette after sex.

Then it seems there was an underground facebook page for teens only that the folks at facebook shut down. Instagram and Snapchat also shut down certain juul marketing sites for the same reason.

Coincidently?, Their sales began to sky rocket in 2017 into 2018.

On my local radio station near a large military complex they have ads touting soldiers who speak of the Juul being responsible for their smoking cessation as pleasant music and little children laughing in the distance plays in the background. Then that turbo speed "small print voice" tells of the Juul is to be used responsibly by adults only. Also it seems their social media ads feature old people now.. you know, in their 30's...

 

[DaveP]

There's a significant fight against the FDA's protectionist actions with tobacco products (who stuff billions in tax coffers). Money talks and vaping is stealing funds from the government with numbers of smokers switching to vaping.

The government needs to find a new cash cow and leave vaping to its major contribution which is helping smokers to switch to vaping and live longer. This might mean that vaping becomes a taxed activity to make up for the losses government sees from smokers switching.

This link is from Americans for Tax Reform. I don't know why the link says, "You are being redirected". I didn't get a warning and it seems fine. It's a pro-vaping site that's verified green. Firefox shows its green padlock, which says that the site is tested to be safe.

You are being redirected...

New CDC Data: More Than 9 Million Adults Vape Regularly in the United States

E-cigarettes are tobacco-free technology products, which are increasingly being used as smoking cessation tools for traditional cigarette users. The National Health Interview Survey also revealed that 12.6 percent of adults in the U.S. have tried an e-cigarette at least once.

Key CDC Survey Findings:

• About 3.7 percent of adults used e-cigarettes every day or some days;
• Almost one-half of current cigarette smokers (47.6%) and more than one-half of recent former cigarette smokers (55.4%) had ever tried an e-cigarette;
• About one in six current cigarette smokers (15.9%) and nearly one in four recent former cigarette smokers (22.0%) currently used e-cigarettes;
• Fewer than 4 percent of adults who had never smoked conventional cigarettes have ever tried an e-cigarette.

 

[United States]

Folks are trying to lump feds cracking down on teen use and the desire to raise revenue from vaping into the same package.

It's two different subjects entirely. On the one hand you have pimple faced little Fonzy wanna-be's puffing in the bathroom at school. On the other hand you have a growing industry largely going untaxed.

While the congressman's little darling is Juuling after a joint he is stumping on the campaign trail that those vapers are going to have to start paying their fair share.

It's a two headed monster.

 

[stols001]

The only reason the statement "the kids are only doing what we did" would stir up an argument is that there are plenty of vapers with enough skin in the game to sort of hypothetically claim it's "harm reduction only," or some such nonsense. I get it, vaping probably saved MY LIFE, and I get it's a serious issue.

Oddly enough I did not start smoking until age 18, although frankly I did plenty of other dastardly, only for grownups, sometimes not even ADVISABLE for grownups type stuff and "got away with it" in the sense of government intervention (although I did have to do a sort of "life repair process," as it were) but as far as I am concerned, any harm reduction that works has got to be pleasurable enough that teens are naturally going to want to try it, a certain subset of them.

I think it's pretty harmless, comparatively, and if we suddenly find out vaping mutates teens into like, baby cows or something that would be tragic, but also, we would be raising a generation of "responsible only" teens, so that might be useful as far as like, fixing some societal ills-- a generation ruled by logic, listening to their elders, etc. I personally think that would be BORING too, but heck, it could have some benefits.

But I'm an oddball libertarian who sort of thinks kids should make mistakes, and parents should let them, and not freak out about it, because most helicopter parents have NO control by that age, and it makes them batty. So they start blaming the Juul because they don't want to admit that they feel they have "failed as a parent" and etc., while still trying to be minutely involved in every aspect of their teen's life. That makes it worse because the teens hate their parents already.

I had no clue my kiddo was smoking and he was like 17 when he asked for a vape. I am proud to state I got him one, although I did insist that he not use it in such a manner as to cause me legal issues.

He did FAR worse stuff than vape and yet we weathered those storms and he's like a productive member of society now. Somehow, I don't think he'd be where he was without a, well, less invasive approach.

I feel really bad for teens these days. Life is more confusing than ever before and like everyone is freaking out on them vaping. At this point if I had nothing else in my life, I would want to travel from school to school and have kiddos trade me cigarettes for vapes, not that I really need to at this point, they're doing fine obtaining their own, the government KNOWS this, too. They just want them to switch to cigarettes, and killing off the vape market entirely is just a side benefit, frankly.

Anna

 

[englishmick]

There's a significant fight against the FDA's protectionist actions with tobacco products (who stuff billions in tax coffers). Money talks and vaping is stealing funds from the government with numbers of smokers switching to vaping. At the same time, more smokers are quitting using vaping and other products.

The government needs to find a new cash cow and leave vaping to its major contribution which is helping smokers to switch to vaping and live longer. This might mean that vaping becomes a taxed activity to make up for the losses government sees from smokers switching.

This link is from Americans for Tax Reform. I don't know why the link says, "You are being redirected". I didn't get a warning and it seems fine. It's a pro-vaping site that's verified green. Firefox shows it's green padlock, which says that the site is tested to be safe.

You are being redirected...

Seems like there are two contradictory paths for the government, and they are trying to walk down both of them at the same time. Either let vaping flourish and tax the hell out of it to replace the lost smoking revenue, or squash vaping and let smoking carry on. But they can't quite decide what direction to take. Maybe they are just waiting to see which way the wind blows.

 

[Bronze]

Seems like there are two contradictory paths for the government, and they are trying to walk down both of them at the same time. Either let vaping flourish and tax the hell out of it to replace the lost smoking revenue, or squash vaping and let smoking carry on. But they can't quite decide what direction to take. Maybe they are just waiting to see which way the wind blows.

Or more precisely, which one has the largest payday.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

On social media their ads featured young men barely old enough to shave and Calvin Klein jeans models enjoying a satisfying experience with a look on their face not much different than a cigarette after sex.

Then it seems there was an underground facebook page for teens only that the folks at facebook shut down. Instagram and Snapchat also shut down certain Juul marketing sites for the same reason.

Coincidently?, Their sales began to sky rocket in 2017 into 2018.

On my local radio station near a large military complex they have ads touting soldiers who speak of the Juul being responsible for their smoking cessation as pleasant music and little children laughing in the distance plays in the background. Then that turbo speed "small print voice" tells of the Juul is to be used responsibly by adults only. Also it seems their social media ads feature old people now.. you know, in their 30's...

I keep hearing references to their marketing to teens, but can't find it. Nothing scientific, but a while back I tried a number of google image searches, and can't really find anything that looks like it came from Juul with young teens. Can you post an example?

 

[United States]

Well said Anna.

I got lucky that even though our boys did plenty of mischief, they did far less than I did before 'growing up'. The virtues of right versus wrong in my youth has become practically extinct these days as two income households, neighbors becoming strangers from each other and computers becoming baby sitters.

You see it on the news all the time now neighbors of the mass murdering gunman saying "he seemed so nice" or "he kept to himself". Man, when I was a kid we knew the guy at 2212 Maple Lane was a wack-job. We knew who the drug dealers were and we knew not to toss the Frisbee into that lady's yard.

Kids will be kids. We gave ours a long leash knowing they'd be doing things we didn't would not approve of. I told them a bunch of times "the virtue is QUIT GETTING CAUGHT". It wasn't that I approved. Quite the opposite really. The goal was to teach them it is wrong to do that. So if you make a choice to do something you know is wrong at least be cautious. In the end they chose to stop doing those things. If we teach the youth that there is a right and a wrong we know they'll pick wrong sometimes, but if we don't give them the freedom they'll become like the perverbial preachers daughter.

No I'm not for teens vaping. I do not want to see the youth inhaling heated chemicals. Is it safer than smoking? Wearing a helmet while riding a motorcycle on a crowded interstate is safer than not. It isn't safe to ride a motorcycle on a crowded interstate. But we do it.

Trouble is, the nanny state wants to dictate what kids can (and cannot) have. And they strive to pluck cash from any possible resource to pay for their programs. Big tobbaco adopted the Rodney King philosophy. "Can't we all just get along?" Meanwhile the public thinks those popcorn lung causing vapes explode. Guess what? Flashlights explode too sometimes.

My favorite flashlight designer told me a story of the day he returned from lunch to see his office building surrounded with fire trucks after a battery he was charging exploded in the mid-1990's. He said he was placed in hand cuffs for trying to kill his staff after one lady yelled out "it was him, he's trying to kill us". He invented some of the fuel sources used in early vape technology. Meanwhile his teenage daughter chooses Juul over those nasty smelling things her daddy smokes all day.

 

[United States]

Bill Clinton said in '93 "we are going to add a $2 a pack tax to cigarettes and cause them to be so expensive people will quit smoking them". Later Hillary said "we are going to use the added revenue to pay for expanded Medicaire".

Howz that supposed to work?

 

[United States]

I keep hearing references to their marketing to teens, but can't find it. Nothing scientific, but a while back I tried a number of google image searches, and can't really find anything that looks like it came from Juul with young teens. Can you post an example?

Really? Look at the Juul wiki/'FDA investigations' to start then 'marketing' .

The ads are no longer there. They were pulled.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

Ok, US - but I think we have a little bit of a disconnect here. I know there are many claims about them marketing to teens, and that they're probably no longer running some earlier, more "offending" ads, but I wanted to see them, to see what the claims are based on. My impression is that they claim Juul markets to kids simply because they're successful with kids. If I do a quick search of Marlboro ads, there are tons. When I do an image search of Juul ads, this is the worst offender I can find- a young thin girl who appears to be low 20's. Even their packaging looks pretty adult, maybe even sophisticated. You say the ads are pulled, but wouldn't they still be out there somewhere? I just want to see the examples for my own edification.

 

[CMD-Ky]

It is easier to focus on JUUL than it is to address the disintegration of society, addressing disintegration may offend someone.

The only reason the statement "the kids are only doing what we did" would stir up an argument is that there are plenty of vapers with enough skin in the game to sort of hypothetically claim it's "harm reduction only," or some such nonsense. I get it, vaping probably saved MY LIFE, and I get it's a serious issue.

Oddly enough I did not start smoking until age 18, although frankly I did plenty of other dastardly, only for grownups, sometimes not even ADVISABLE for grownups type stuff and "got away with it" in the sense of government intervention (although I did have to do a sort of "life repair process," as it were) but as far as I am concerned, any harm reduction that works has got to be pleasurable enough that teens are naturally going to want to try it, a certain subset of them.

I think it's pretty harmless, comparatively, and if we suddenly find out vaping mutates teens into like, baby cows or something that would be tragic, but also, we would be raising a generation of "responsible only" teens, so that might be useful as far as like, fixing some societal ills-- a generation ruled by logic, listening to their elders, etc. I personally think that would be BORING too, but heck, it could have some benefits.

But I'm an oddball libertarian who sort of thinks kids should make mistakes, and parents should let them, and not freak out about it, because most helicopter parents have NO control by that age, and it makes them batty. So they start blaming the Juul because they don't want to admit that they feel they have "failed as a parent" and etc., while still trying to be minutely involved in every aspect of their teen's life. That makes it worse because the teens hate their parents already.

I had no clue my kiddo was smoking and he was like 17 when he asked for a vape. I am proud to state I got him one, although I did insist that he not use it in such a manner as to cause me legal issues.

He did FAR worse stuff than vape and yet we weathered those storms and he's like a productive member of society now. Somehow, I don't think he'd be where he was without a, well, less invasive approach.

I feel really bad for teens these days. Life is more confusing than ever before and like everyone is freaking out on them vaping. At this point if I had nothing else in my life, I would want to travel from school to school and have kiddos trade me cigarettes for vapes, not that I really need to at this point, they're doing fine obtaining their own, the government KNOWS this, too. They just want them to switch to cigarettes, and killing off the vape market entirely is just a side benefit, frankly.

Anna

 

[stols001]

I was a teen girl once, and I adjudge that "Juul girl" to be not at all hot. I don't know how teen boys would see it, but she looks really really low on the "fun" "datable" and "intellectual" scale and she's kind of frightening, in a mental ......ation kind of way.

Even if that WAS their teen marketing, it doesn't matter. Underground teens never smoked for Joe Camel and they aren't going to do it for that chick, either.

Underground teens do not base their thoughts around mass market advertising.... There's a whole underground pipeline now, and it's secret, but they used to call it the internet/that alcoholic home you know where you can go borrow your friend's parent's Juul, that bar that LITERALLY markets to teen girls by giving them a "no booze sticker" that literally can be licked of in one lick.

Etc. Etc. It's not the marketing, it's not.

Anna

 

[Bronze]

I was a teen girl once, and I adjudge that "Juul girl" to be not at all hot. I don't know how teen boys would see it, but she looks really really low on the "fun" "datable" and "intellectual" scale and she's kind of frightening, in a mental ......ation kind of way.

Even if that WAS their teen marketing, it doesn't matter. Underground teens never smoked for Joe Camel and they aren't going to do it for that chick, either.

Underground teens do not base their thoughts around mass market advertising.... There's a whole underground pipeline now, and it's secret, but they used to call it the internet/that alcoholic home you know where you can go borrow your friend's parent's Juul, that bar that LITERALLY markets to teen girls by giving them a "no booze sticker" that literally can be licked of in one lick.

Etc. Etc. It's not the marketing, it's not.

Anna

She'd probably be more effective if she lost the "I Dream of Jeannie" hairdo.

 

[CMD-Ky]

Bill Clinton said in '93 "we are going to add a $2 a pack tax to cigarettes and cause them to be so expensive people will quit smoking them". Later Hillary said "we are going to use the added revenue to pay for expanded Medicaire".

Howz that supposed to work?

I believe that it is an example of the thought processes (or lack thereof) utilized by politicians. In Kentucky we were treated to an ad that, in thirty seconds, stated one candidate's plan would expand the deficit and that same plan would be paid for by reducing Social Security and Medicare. I found it interesting that this demon plan would both expand the deficit and be paid for in a single ad. Then I thought that this is a political ad, logic and rational thought are not allowed.

 

[CMD-Ky]

She'd probably be more effective if she lost the "I Dream of Jeannie" hairdo.

Now I understand why you use temperature control and I use wattage; there is no accounting for taste.

 

[Vinnybagodoughnuts]

She'd probably be more effective if she lost the "I Dream of Jeannie" hairdo.

Well it certainly is an improvement on the trendy Dorknob.lol

 

[CMD-Ky]

I think that we can all agree.

Well it certainly is an improvement on the trendy Dorknob.lol

 

[Bronze]

Well it certainly is an improvement on the trendy Dorknob.lol

Can't argue with that.