Do We Need To Stock Up Because Of The Ban?

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JebGipson

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I am stocking up as much as I can afford to, which is sadly enough for maybe 6 months so far... maybe 6. (sighs) but if the ban goes through I at least will be attempting to do some overseas ordering. I believe it was Abraham Lincoln who said "If a law is unjust it is our duty to break it" (paraphrasing)... or was it George Washington?... hrm... need to look it up.
 

Vaporer

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Jun 23, 2009
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Away..
I picked up 500ml of 48mg flavorless from myfreedomsmokes. Great price.
That will cut to 1 ltr of 24mg juice!
I wish someone would come out with the secret tobacco flavor formulas for 555, Hilton, Flu Cured.......I don't think Homeland Security knows it.

Well.....looks like I'm another list now 8-o, oh well.....I will NOT share with them if they stop by. :lol:
 
Hi,

That was Henry David Thoreau; from his essay 'On the Duty of Civil Disobedience'. It originally was under a different name and had a few different but similar titles. Of course it had awesome ramifications directly influencing Mohandas Gandhi, Martin Buber, Leo Tolstoy & Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. to name a few, as well as many American college students in the 1960's -'70s. The actual quote is:

"If the injustice is part of the necessary friction of the machine of government, let it go, let it go: perchance it will wear smooth--certainly the machine will wear out. If the injustice has a spring, or a pulley, or a rope, or a crank, exclusively for itself, then perhaps you may consider whether the remedy will not be worse than the evil; but if it is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then I say, break the law. Let your life be a counter-friction to stop the machine. What I have to do is to see, at any rate, that I do not lend myself to the wrong which I condemn."

It is often paraphrased as:

"If... the machine of government... is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law. ~Henry David Thoreau, On the Duty of Civil Disobedience, 1849"
 
Kristin,

I agree. A "sin" tax for choice would be better than a script.
The problem with the FDA is the nic levels.
If they follow their track record the level would be to low to help all but the people who most would consider don't smoke.

Then it becomes just another expensive failed FDA approved product we've all come to try and end up not using since it doesn't work long term.


The cruel and unusual financial punishment inflicted upon the impoverished American citizens in America has always been unethical and utterly and ruthlessly immoral.

To forcibly require the impoverished due to their financial inability to to become Saints has never been equitable, ethical, fair, just, compassionate or morally upright.

I recall being homeless in the 1990's due to a set of misfortunes and circumstances completely outside of my control and not because of any lack of responsibility or personal integrity on my part.

There were times the only way i was able to get my daily tobacco smokes was to raid public ashtrays (Hotels, Hospitals 7 airports seem to be the best).

The idea to legislate via taxation: wisdom/foolish choices has nothing to do with morality or Sin as defined in scripture which has to do only with the violation of the Spirit of Truth and not with the violation of the spirit of wisdom. To violate truth in some form is sin in some form; however to violate wisdom in some form is foolishness in some form or to be unwise. they are not the same and very different consequences too. The foolish among us are not by their violation of wisdom 'locked out of 'heaven' for example. To force tax against the impoverished for their unwise choices that they were/are unable to rectify (can't quit); is a terribly cruel and utterly ruthless and immoral punishing of those already suffering great hardship.

No Sin Tax is my vote.

Plus, with Vapor it makes no sense at all for Vaping is not an activity (especially when Nicotine free) that can at all be defined as foolish or unwise in anyway (in terms of our present understanding - No Toxins).

I'm still poor living on 730.00 a month for all my expenses, and have been vaping now all this month and been tobacco free for the past 21 days and loving it. I do NOT have the finances to stock pile very much stuff although I do have fluid for the next 3 months.

I love Vaping much better then tobacco and finally after over 30 years of 2 packs a day I am free of it.

The government has no right but only wrongness to impose unjustifiable hardships upon us former tobacco smokers trying to renew a healthy, affordable and enjoyable life again with Vaping.

If they ever do start Taxing us like they do with tobacco that would be the great SIN here.

I also suffer from a serious disability and thus exist on a fixed and and very low income with little chance of significantly changing that for the better any time soon.

Vaping has already helped me in terms of my illness too. So speaking from one formally on the streets and for the genuinely disabled living throughout america and the poor in general for those of us who are/were unable to quit tobacco but can switch this Sin Tax has always been an incredibly unjust and unfair burden to those who are the poorest within America and has never been ethical, nor moral but quite the opposite.
:mad:
 

Conifer

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Sep 28, 2009
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Hello everyone,
This is an awesome community and I am grateful for the forum and all the great information you all provide. I am 42yo and have smoked a pack a day for about 30 years. I am a nurse and I recently had a patient who turned me on to pvs.

I initially got the SE 9.95 "deal" a few days ago, which I quickly found out was not such a deal, but maybe the over-price will help in the fight they are in with the FDA. I have since ordered a VK which should be here today. :D

I guess I ignored, the area of the forum regarding the ban until recently. After reading that whole thread, it almost has me wishing I had never heard of the e-cig. It's so depressing to find something that is so liberating (down to 4 analogs a day) only to find that it's going to be taken away soon. :(

At first I just turned off the my comp and smoked a half a pack and hated for a little while.:mad: Then I came back to the forum and read some inspiring posts and decided to jump in with both feet.

Now I am trying to stock up, but since I am so new at this I don't have a clue what enough even looks like. :oops: The order from V4L is the pcc/charger, 10 cartomizers, and a pass through. Yesterday I ordered 4 901 atomizers (I read they will fit the VK) and a 5pack of empty carts from RMV, and a 30ml bottle of 60mg flavorless from Nhaler.

After my stuff gets here today I plan to try the flavers I got (coffee and pear) and then try to choose what liquids to order.

Money is running low now and I don't know how much time is left before we can't order anymore so I am feeling frantic. Can someone help me focus on what I really need? Is there something I am not thinking about. This adventure started for me last Saturday! 8-o Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks all,
Kelly
 

highping

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Kelly.. Welcome to Vaping!! It sounds like you are stocking up on the right stuff. I think getting lots of atomizers is important. Batteries are also somthing that will eventually fail. However, you can prolong the life of your (portable) batteries if you get a usb passthrough for home and office use. Personally, I like a passthrough with an inline battery. That way I can pull off and take it with me. The inline batt usually has about three times the life of a stock e-cig battery. In my case I decided to go with a big battery mod (a Chuck for me, but there lots of different choices). The big batt mods use standard batteries that will never be effected (affected?) by a ban.
As far as the juices, I would get many samples from different places and find what you like before stocking up (I've got a dozen bottles in my fridge of flavors I don't really like). Johnsoncreeksmokejuice has a sample pack for $21 that I would recommend. There also lots of other sites that sell 3ml samples. Once you find some flavors you like those 4-analogs a day will probably taste like dog ****. I know they did for me :)
Hope this info helps.
BTW: be careful with that 60mg stuff
 

PaulZ

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Sep 26, 2009
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even if the ban goes through, they'll do tests.. find out its actually safe if people have quality stuff.. and put regulations for testing (good for us because its safer that way) and we'll be fine.

if they do comprehensive tests and this is worse for you long run than smoking (highly HIGHLY unlikely.. actually nearly impossible) then they've saved all our lives (psh.. yeah..)
 

Vaporer

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Welcome Kelly.
The main thing to stock IMHO is e liquid and atomizers. Attys will fail since its a heating coil. Some last a long time some only a week. Batteries go bad too, but many people make mods that use the fitting off an e cig battery and it goes to a easily obtainable battery. You can see them in the Mods section.
If you like non tobacco flavors flavorless e liquid can be purchased much cheaper in bulk.

PaulZ, The problem with FDA approved NRT's is they keep the levels so low they arent effective. Most estimate 2 yrs for FDA approval. Normal is 7-9 yrs in the US, but all the ingredients have been tested. Seems there is more of money loss to BT an BP involved.
The e cig has drawn way more attention in a bad way than it ever should have.
 

BigJimW

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I've created a private, invite only section on the Association of Personal Vaporers forum that discusses just these things that will go on in a post ban world. After reading the comments and emailing Chinese manufacturers regarding what will happen, I was amazed. I am much less fearful now, even if the FDA goes to town.

Why? Well, part of the reason is the overtaxed FDA. They're underfunded, understaffed, out of over 300 Chinese manufacturers of drugs that are imported into this country, only 7 or so were actually inspected due to lack of manpower. They are inept, slow, eager to approve dangerous drugs and devices, slow to recall that approval. Many dead people later, peoples faith in the FDA has waned to the point that even non smokers know the deal with their ban on the e-cig.

The Chinese have the art of getting something to it's destination down to a science, regardless of the means nessisery. In the end, the only thing this "ban" will effect is the large shipments destined to large distributors like N/Joy and Smoking Everywhere. Those will be seized.

But the reason I do not speak of great details here on ECF is because of the "eyes" that read this forum every day. You can be rest assured Banzhaf and the rest of his flunkies read this forum on a daily basis. And hence the creation of the private section.

Some of you may not want to travel underground, but if you want to continue, you may have no other choice. We're not the ones who WANT to go underground, but the FDA and ASH leaves us with little choice.

Sure, I think there should be more testing on the e-cig, but not by the incompetent baffoons over at the FDA that have a proven track record of failure. I mean testing from a non interested third party not under any government or manufacturers payroll. I mean totally independent. That is the only way that truth will prevail.

Until then, give me that shovel because, The Underground Railroad, here we come!
 

Vaporer

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Jun 23, 2009
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Yes, the eyes do watch what is posted on this forum. They've proven that more than once.
Anyone that has ideas, methods, friends I wouldn't post the info in the open areas like this. I'd use and am using private email for direct communication.
I still have a couple of tutorials to do on maintaining/rebuilding your equip to post. Easy mods to make.......
All won't be able to do some things but the more that know the more that can help and share.

If they didnt have other motivation it would have been on the market, taxed and making them money by now.
And if they show up at my door, I'm not sharing with them ( any gov officials) lol
 

Vaporer

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Actually Paul, that works for me...you can help by running the FDA's asses off on the docks searching pkgs...lol

Well.....it ruins USA suppliers, many I've gotten to trust. Some make a decent 2nd income for their trouble and I'd like to keep some of the money here. I know they order from China. I look at them as my QC people.
I pay them for finding quality, fast shipping and an overall decent product.
I've NEVER had to return the 1st item purchased from any of them.

But the main thing is the gov is removing another one of my choices.
I shouldn't have to feel like a criminal to get something safer than analogs if I choose, as long as it doesn't bother anyone else.

I'll join BigJims forum if he takes me and teach people how to solder, build mods, rebuild attys.......if the gov wants to play this nonsense game.......

GAME ON!
 

paise

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worst thing i see from the ban would be having to pay for overseas shipping, instead of buying from in-the country suppliers. You can go online and buy Rx only drugs from overseas and they get through customs quite easily.

I ordered RX meds online from foreign sources (and some domestic when I could find them) over the year I was going back and forth between doctors as they were trying to determine without a doubt whether I had lupus and Sjogren's disease along with which type with regards to lupus. The rheumy refused to write scripts for pain medication above an Ultram, which for me at the time was like taking a drink of water for all the effects it did.

If it had not been for ordering as I did that last year I would have lost the last year working in the medical transcription field. I still ended up going through a period where I was practically bed-ridden as the doctors went through various medical regimens until they found the series of drugs that would not only slow the progression of lupus but treat the side effects and symptoms that come with it and with Sjogren's. The time I went through that ordeal is all a bit fuzzy because I was in excruciating pain. Thankfully now I have a working medicine regimen; however, as of my appt yesterday, I have a new problem. It seems the joint disease has began to affect my lower spine and the vertebrae. The flares will become a bit more painful and the areas affected has broadened so to speak.

With regards to my ordering pain meds and anti-inflammatory drugs (better than ibuprofen or otc Advil), I rarely lost a shipment but there were times when orders did get caught by customs. My biggest fear if the US bans the e-cig is getting my hands on the e-liquid with specific concerns of getting hold of the nicotine liquid itself since I am finally learning to make my own flavors for my e-cig. I imagine we will still have access to the units such as the 510, 901, 801, etc... but the liquid will become the problem.

Like you, I have come to trust various suppliers of e-liquid and parts. It also upsets me because these people who have taken this opportunity to set up a side business or even a work-at-home business will lose out and to me, that is just flat out wrong. It is something that will dampen the entrepreneurial spirit that is so prominent for Americans as well as anyone else in the world. Many people strive their entire lives to work for themselves without having anyone to answer to in the concept of having a boss, per se. It's wrong of the US government to take this away from those who have worked so hard to build their businesses especially when this all boils down to a vocal minority of anti-smoking groups (who are stupid because the e-cigs are safer than analogs) and government bureaucracy.

IMHO, it seems the US government is simply ...... because they didn't think of this product first so they could make the money off the products and parts and liquids. I hope with our collective efforts we can keep e-cigs on the free market where it is now without all the red tape and the government departments or big tobacco or big pharma making decisions as to what is in the nic-quid or the mg we are able to purchase.

These a$$holes don't seem to realize that sure, while nicotine liquid is dangerous if taken internally, so is drain cleaner, floor cleaners, and everything else we use when not done right or used right or stored right. Heck, I have firearms in my house. Some of them are standard rifles and sidearms but some are black-powder. My husband enjoys target shooting and each year we hit the turkey shoots in our area. I even have my own shotgun because I shoot left-handed albeit hubby, his brother, or someone else from our community have to sight for me when at the turkey shoots because I can't see end of the barrel let alone the target. (legally blind) But, these are dangerous if not kept under lock and key. We keep our firearms of all kinds under lock and key. We aren't stupid! We have a minor child in the house but even if she wasn't in our home, even when she leaves when she graduates high school to go to college we will still have them under lock and key because it is the safe thing to do.

It's like the US government thinks we are children and they need to "parent" us, which is totally f-ed up, IMHO.

I'm not looking forward to having to go the underground route to get e-liquids to stay off of analog cigarettes. Hubby and I haven't fought once over my vaping in the house whereas we fought constantly for the last several years over my smoking tobacco analogs in the house! It's nice not to hear him come in each day or wake up each morning b*tching about it. I'm not sure our marriage could have withstood that kind of arguing day in and day out.

Just my 2 cents worth....

PS: I'd rather the suppliers I use now to get the profits than having to order from overseas where the ones I've come to trust would lose their cut. I'm a firm believer in someone making their own way in the world by going out on a limb to build a business for themselves. I've met and dealt with some of the best people since switching to e-cigs. I commend you all and those I use regularly know who you are. Thanks with all my heart...
 

Vaporer

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Jun 23, 2009
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As far as stocking up.
I'd stock up to 2 yrs worth if you can. Thats the shelf life.
If you cant, I'd concentrate on e liquid and attys.
Mods can be made that use easily replaceable batteries and chargers for them from DX.
Carts dont seem to hardly ever go bad............
Luckily I can rebuild all my attys. So, I'm working with people that are trying diff methods of making eliquid.
I'm not so sure the nic is a big of an issue as many think. My nic levels are way lower now than before. I'd prefer to have tobacco flavors as apposed to fruity or candy stuff all the time. Menthol is easy to make and helps a lot if thats what you used to smoke.
I missed it as much as anything.
So most of the basic materials will still be available if you can do a little fabrication or know someone that can help. Some stuff will still get through, but I'd say it will be costly. I'd guess there will be some bartering going on.
If you've enjoyed vaping for a while now, it's not like you wont use it.
 

M3Tyler

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Sep 28, 2009
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Call me crazy, but I've got over 2,000 ML's of 48mg e-Liquid & 120 atomizers. I figure I'm pretty safe for a while....LOL.

I'm not so much worried about being able to purchase supplies, overseas suppliers wont stop shipping to the US simply because of a ban. Where there is a will there's a way. My concern really has to do with prices in a post-ban era. I would imagine finding atty's for $4-5 a piece is going to be simply non-existent with a ban in place. I foresee prices going sky high IMO...
 
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Kurt

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Sep 16, 2009
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As far as stocking up.
I'd stock up to 2 yrs worth if you can. Thats the shelf life.
If you cant, I'd concentrate on e liquid and attys.
Mods can be made that use easily replaceable batteries and chargers for them from DX.
Carts dont seem to hardly ever go bad............
Luckily I can rebuild all my attys. So, I'm working with people that are trying diff methods of making eliquid.
I'm not so sure the nic is a big of an issue as many think. My nic levels are way lower now than before. I'd prefer to have tobacco flavors as apposed to fruity or candy stuff all the time. Menthol is easy to make and helps a lot if thats what you used to smoke.
I missed it as much as anything.
So most of the basic materials will still be available if you can do a little fabrication or know someone that can help. Some stuff will still get through, but I'd say it will be costly. I'd guess there will be some bartering going on.
If you've enjoyed vaping for a while now, it's not like you wont use it.

If stored properly, unflavored nic juice should last much longer than 2 years. Nicotine itself, if stored in a dry, cool, dark place is stable almost indefinitely, as is PG or VG. My brother did research with nicotine in a pharm company, and some of their liquid solutions and pure nicotine were unchanged even after 10 years. Store in dark glass, as little air at top as possible, sealed, in a cool dry dark place, like the basement. The "shelf life" is sort of a standard, but if stored properly greatly underestimates the longevity of nicotine solutions. I got this info also from a current e-juice producer.

None the less I too am stocking up. Currently I'm good up to at least a year, but will be getting more.

Kurt
 
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