US Deeming Date Change - Denied

[cllmda]

I don't think its that bad either. I just think we are going to have to spend more money to get the same quality that we like. In a year or two the initial cost these companies have to put forth will catch up with their sales and profit margins, then the cost will hopefully go down again.

I do think it will cost more money for quality start up kits and juice, and that is not a good thing, unless you are a tobacco company.

As far as eliquids go only very few companies will survive at all.... (Im talking about the US here)

A director from Halo was talking about this at the Sept. 2015 Vapexpo in Paris, they said that with the future FDA Regs it will cost approx 2M $ per authorization request and that would be necessary for every single flavor and every single flavor+nic combo .

At those prices only BT and really big companies will be able to survive....

And the ones that do survive will certainly reduce their amount of available products/liquids AND hike up the price tags on those !!!!

 

[cllmda]

not illegal at all ... locked down cigalikes are what's coming

everything else will die a slow death ... folks like Rossum, myself and others are not affected

This is gonna hit a lot of vapers like a ton of bricks

So TRUE ...

The Regs will be going into effect here in may 2016 at the very latest and the "general-population-vapers" dont even realize it yet....

 

[Douggro]

What means more to a politician? Reason or money..

Sorry, but just like voting out for ignoring constituents may be a bad idea, Keeping them in for a Few positive actions is also often a bad idea. They have to get it right once in a while regardless. Is this less right?
Are millions of Lives less important? (Who foots the bills?)

Sorry, my point was lost in the ensuing rhetoric.

There are politicos like Mikulski that on occasion do things that the public actually approves of, in spite of the resistance inside government to make it happen. The last HST Servicing Mission was one she spearheaded through, one that I lobbied my reps in Congress to get behind, and one that Congress and NASA were against. I'm an amateur astronomer. Hubble has been a boon to both the professional and amateur astronomy communities, as well as a huge point of advocacy for science. Yes, Mikulski had prejudicial motives for getting the mission done, as the STSI is in her state. The JWST is still years from flying and without that last servicing mission, Hubble would be dead now, unusable space junk. But I digress..

Someone recently pointed out that voting politicians in or out of office based solely on one issue is not necessarily entirely in our best interests if their beliefs on other issues are so at odds with our stances on them that it becomes an untenable choice to make. I wouldn't suggest or want people to vote for someone that would go against their beliefs that are more valuable to them than vaping rights are.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

Sorry, but just like voting out for ignoring constituents may be a bad idea, Keeping them in for a Few positive actions is also often a bad idea. They have to get it right once in a while regardless. Is this less right?
Are millions of Lives less important? (Who foots the bills?)

I think all of them in the US Senate, House & White House are good for 4yrs to 6yrs max, and then beyond that they are looking out for themselves and how to leave with enough insider information, connections and cash to enhance their bottom line. They don't even follow the laws on the books and run amok. I don't know why the founders decided that none of these people should have term limits (White House is 8yrs which is too long in my book) when they wrote the initial documentation for the form of government they sought. Being in office for more than 6yrs is certainly making them equivalent to royalty, which they allegedly were running away from. I don't know why the founders did not make it so laws put in to place effected 100% of us, and let those in Congress and White House be immune from their own laws. SMH!

 

[cllmda]

Well, I guess Im going to keep all that I have now. Was thinking of selling because I felt that 15 atomizers and 14 Mechs were too many. Guess at my age that should see me through another 20 years , I hope...

I have to go over the things I have in the classifieds and think about keeping them, just in case....

Only thing that worries me is the cost of Nic base. Maybe I should buy a few more liters before the price doubles or more...

Good Idea!
(going over what you have and seeing what you should perhaps KEEP instead of sell)

However, unless you're an extremely high-Nic-vaper you should be able to stock up on enough Nic base to suit your needs, no prob.

I was worried about that-even just purchased a brand new large-size fridge & freezer because of the increasing need of space caused by my vape-apocalypse supplies .Thought I would have to order SO MUCH...

...but turns out that its pretty easy and doesnt require as much space as I thought, provided youre willing to get ( & work with ) 100mg or 200mg Nic bases and vape in the lower nic ranges (I'm at 0mg-to 6mg depending on days ,moods liquids ...);

If you look around you can find pretty good deals on Nic base costwise....Ive found a lot of tips right here on this forum, you should search the threads discussing DIY supplies

 

[Tommy-Chi]

GOP lawmaker: E-cigs could 'very well save my life'

Greg Nash
By Tim Devaney - 12/21/15 02:23 PM EST





I thought this was interesting , sounds like Pelosi , you know the "brilliant" one who is known for such historical comments such as " we got to pass the bill to see what's in the bill" fame .

MY TWEET:

@Rep_Hunter Thank you for standing firm on vaping. Ex smokers will suffer horribly if access to NEW & improved equipment are not allowed

 

[cllmda]

I've ordered three items from China and all three had been opened and inspected. What am I, an arms dealer or on a list?

Something about you (name, address, xxx...?) must make you come up as a "risk" on Customs risk-calculating software.

And once you get pinpointed ONCE your name & address does go on a " flag-list" which means they will open the next few packages coming to that same name & address over the next few months.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

well, even the forums are being targeted here under the "indirect publicity" law, same as for cigs & liquor ( already no tv commercials etc. on those for several years now) and this will go into effect next year

No publicity whatsoever for ecigs or eliquids except INSIDE vape shops and even there the ads must face INWARDS so as not to be visible from the outside (ie nothing in shop windows at all) and they also must be under a certain regulated size ( very small poster size, under the size of two A4's!!!)

[Lol...How ridiculous can this witch-hunt become ??????]
(and yet France, along with the UK, are among the least repressive EU countries concerning Ecigs, we have ALOT of vapers here and were among the first countries where vaping took hold)

The sites/forums can continue to exist but will not be referenced on Google and so on .
So youd have to know the exact address to be able to go there.

That will be fine for those of us already here today but for NEW vapers or smokers interested in quitting and seeking info on their options it'll be another story ...

Without Google how will most people be able to find online shops to buy gear ?

Of course I dont know how many other countries will eventually be affected by similar laws -possibly those who already apply it to cigs and/or alcohol ?

... All this stems from the" we need to protect the children " campaigns and that's a pretty popular concept nowadays worldwide so it could catch on (-hope not!) ...?

I'd like to make a request that we be able to purchase DVDs of the complete ECF site so that we have at our disposal all of the information. It will be nigh impossible to do any DIY without access to this information. There is no way anyone can go through this data and sort it in to meaningful information on a whim.

I for one would pay $20 to get an up to date copy of the site shipped to me. I think many would.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

Something about you (name, address, xxx...?) must make you come up as a "risk" on Customs risk-calculating software.

And once you get pinpointed ONCE your name & address does go on a " flag-list" which means they will open the next few packages coming to that same name & address over the next few months.

Wonder never cease. This govt and their "secret lists."

 

[cllmda]

I worry that too much cynasim will lead to folks dropping out instead of being outraged and pro active. This is just begginning.

No, dont worry about that ...

Most of us remain OUTRAGED and continue to FIGHT BACK even while we're mounting our own personal little safety-stock just in case things go wrong...

(and this isnt just wishful thinking, it's really the general trend Ive noticed on the survivalist forums...)

 

[Tommy-Chi]

Just a few reasons to Kill the e-cig industry:
U.S. cigarette market was worth a total of $66 billion - 2013
Marketing(tobacco) over $1million / Hour - 2013 - Yep, $26 Million / Day
Profits of 18%, Double that of US averages for other corporations.
Tobacco is Still an Extremely Profitable Business, and This Won't Change Soon -- The Motley Fool
Direct Health Care $170 Billion for Adults - 2012 CDC - That would be a huge cut

This is just scraping the edge. Other concerns:
Tax Losses
Investor losses
Job Losses
Unemployment escalation
increased cost of supplemental Food/Health/Housing
Retail sales losses(due to unemployment)
Eventual overpopulation and Food shortages

Trust me, they think about everything Before our concerns.

I for one Feel I have as Much Right to life as any Non/Never Smoker even if I require Vaping to reach that goal.

I do not deserve to be looked down upon or considered a lesser person for finding my own way.

My Family depends on me, Not the Government, to survive. Strange how that works.

I'm with you. If I do not do it for myself, then I do not know that it will be done.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

As far as eliquids go only very few companies will survive at all.... (Im talking about the US here)

A director from Halo was talking about this at the Sept. 2015 Vapexpo in Paris, they said that with the future FDA Regs it will cost approx 2M $ per authorization request and that would be necessary for every single flavor and every single flavor+nic combo .

At those prices only BT and really big companies will be able to survive....

And the ones that do survive will certainly reduce their amount of available products/liquids AND hike up the price tags on those !!!!

Thank you for that information. Halo is a big player and if they are worrying then it is time for every man/woman to think for themselves what they are going to do to secure their lifestyle.

 

[cllmda]

The FDA is redefining what intended use means to also including actual use.
There. Will be no loop holes.
Regards
Mike

yes, and the FDA "DEEMING" has taken into account all forms of "mislabel-ling" etc ,this time, not wanting to get into another "bath salts" situation .....

 

[cllmda]

I don't agree with the cigalike only some are thinking here. If anyone can design a LEMO2, Kafun, or Vapor Zeus like device and mod then get them to pass FDA Regulations it would be one of the richer tobacco companies or any big company that has the money to invest. Most of the R&D is done, just look at all the clones.

.

it would be against their interests to do it though probably...?

THOSE devices actually get people OFF cigarettes/work !!!

That's not really advantageous for them .

Better to produce BLU-type things that DONT work for the "trying to stop" crowd and keep the analogs too ...?

Just guessing,however.....

 

[cllmda]

The real problem with a device like that is that it won't ensure a consistent dose of nicotine.
And it isn't tamper proof. And it can leak and expose children to nicotine.

And stinkies are child proof? Come on, my dad made me eat a stinkie the first time I got caught; and my son tried eating one when he was a toddler. Is liquor or beer child proof? Just because we have to be 18, does not mean it has to be child resistant. I think you are thinking more in line with a prescription and they have not deemed this to require a prescription. That would crush big tobacco as well.

The prob is that they are applying stringent norms to ecigs WAY beyond those that are applied to actual cigarettes.

yes, doesnt seem logical and doesnt make sense but THAT IS what's happening

 

[cllmda]

Bickering is not an acceptable solution to the problem at hand.

Have a look into the future............World Wide

yes..will become illegal under the " indirect publicity" law

 

[Rossum]

Someone recently pointed out that voting politicians in or out of office based solely on one issue is not necessarily entirely in our best interests if their beliefs on other issues are so at odds with our stances on them that it becomes an untenable choice to make. I wouldn't suggest or want people to vote for someone that would go against their beliefs that are more valuable to them than vaping rights are.

Depends what the issue is and what a politician's stance on that issue reveals about their view towards you, their individual constituent. Some issues are like an x-ray machine, letting you see exactly what you wannabe rulers are made of. If a politician is willing to limit your right to vape as you choose, without a shred of evidence that vaping is harmful to you much less anyone else, what other rights might he or she be willing to step on?

 

[Douggro]

Depends what the issue is and what a politician's stance on that issue reveals about their view towards you, their individual constituent. Some issues are like an x-ray machine, letting you see exactly what you wannabe rulers are made of. If a politician is willing to limit your right to vape as you choose, without a shred of evidence that vaping is harmful to you much less anyone else, what other rights might he or she be willing to step on?

We may get lucky and have such clear-cut "X-ray" insights as to the makeup of a particular candidate. Most times, it's a muddled mess and the candidates are towing the party line on the hot-button topics that are part of the party platform to carry the party vote.

Congress has been willing to vote away, restrict or otherwise set aside our rights for as long as it has existed. To whit, the PATRIOT Act.

 

[beckdg]

Congress has been willing to vote away, restrict or otherwise set aside our rights for as long as it has existed. To whit, the PATRIOT Act.

BRAVO!

Tapatyped

 

[Jman8]

The prob is that they are applying stringent norms to ecigs WAY beyond those that are applied to actual cigarettes.

What would be an example of this?