Why vapers are never satisfied: A Theory.

[Racehorse]

First, let me say that the term "OCD" is so over-used these days, it kinda makes me laugh because if you worked with actual OCD cases under DSM-II diagnostic categories, you would see that what many use this word to describe certain behaviors it is NOT anything even close to OCD.

In the last few decades, people co-opted the use of the word "depression" in the same way. I hear it all the time "I'm depressed about this, I'm depressed about that." It sort of trivializes the actual disease, and those suffering from TRUE depression, which is very different than feeling a bit blue (a normal human condition and not a mental illness) etc.

I truly wish the word OCD would be replaced with proper synonyms in usage here, (so as not to confuse actual OCD as described under DSM-II and those truly suffering from this difficult disorder for real) and the feelings millions of people have that just involve liking a tidy kitchen, or a clean car, or a well-ordered sewing box or vape gear box, or like to line up their seasonings on the shelf neatly with labels facing outward.

Because the latter behaviors are NOT OCD........and not EVEN CLOSE.

I believe, therefore, that a similiar process is occuring within the minds of vapers who were ex-smokers. So the seemingly endless pursuit of larger/thicker vapor clouds, greater throat hit, the best flavor, the hottest vape, the best device, the latest trends, etc. is a function of our subconscious brain's feeling of deprivation. There are also elements of perfectionism, which is observable in both cases.

Not sure how this is different than people who like to shop a lot, or eat a lot, in an attempt to "feed" some empty feeling they have inside? Which is really more of philosophical and / or spiritual problem that manifests in so many of the behaviors we see in modern times.

I see it across the board, not just with vaping.

There appears to be a huge segment of the american society who has an itch that can't seem to be scratched, and of course, that bears further investigation by the individuals feeling that way.


As For vaping, part of it could just be plain old CURIOUSITY, as it was with me....I'm not a shopper, eater, drinker, and didn't smoke much when I did smoke. I have been thru a number of mods just because I wanted to see what this or that "gadget" did and how it worked.

To be honest, I was able to find satisfaction, in different ways, with everything from a Provari to a lRider Robust to a vmod to a reo, etc. etc. They all do the same thing, a little different form factor, a little bit different experience. I have a $20 plastic 14500 box mod that actually puts out the same vape as an expensive 14500 mod, if using the same delivery device and battery!! Problem is that is won't last long, due to hot glue, thin plastic, etc. and that is why it's cheap and one might pursue a better mod.

I think people go thru this with chasing ejuice......until they get to a certain point in the quest and realize they are kinda getting *repeats*.....more or less. And that is when they finally pull back, find a few things they can live with, and stop the incessant chasing.

 

[aldo.lim]

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Just checking if you really have OCD..jk
Thankfully this isnt the case for me..I'm using ego style battery with T2 type clearomizer..I do have evod batteries and mini protanks in the mail..but the reason I orders them was to try out BCC tank since IMO its less finicky and I don't have to keep tilting my PV when vaping..Personally I'm satisfied with the vaping experience I'm getting from my current setup and this has really stopped me from going back to smoking analog..JMHO

 

[XeniaMike]

I agree with the OCD part, I have that and find that I vape a lot more than I smoked. It all takes me back to when I smoked, I knew exactly how many cigarettes I had at any given time, where they were, etc. When I'd buy a carton, I'd get a sense of security knowing I had 200 of them. Now I can't be in a different room than my PV for very long. Even once I get the perfect vape experience, there is always the desire to tweak it a little or do something different. When a new mod comes out that is really different or has that WOW factor (iTaste 134) I'm almost depressed because I know I must have it.

My hat's off to those who can vape and instantly quit cigarettes. I believe you are right when you say my brain wants some of those other chemicals. I still have 4-5 cigs a week. After I have one I can return to vaping with no problems. Look how long the tobacco companies have been tweaking their formulas. I don't think it can be undone overnight for some.

 

[Sa Da Tay]

Interesting post OP and discussion!

 

[bryaninaustin]

I don't want to come off like an a$$h0le, but I had a really strong response to reading the second half of this post. The same kind of response I would likely have if subjected to hearing Oprah reinterpret existentialism or psychoanalysis. The reduction of the pursuit of pleasure (and vaping and all of its accessories and the experiences we associate with it are about just that) to a feeble atempt to fill up some kind of hole in the psyche which can only stop if we confront our internal problems is way off base for me.

Not sure how this is different than people who like to shop a lot, or eat a lot, in an attempt to "feed" some empty feeling they have inside? Which is really more of philosophical and / or spiritual problem that manifests in so many of the behaviors we see in modern times.

I see it across the board, not just with vaping.

There appears to be a huge segment of the american society who has an itch that can't seem to be scratched, and of course, that bears further investigation by the individuals feeling that way.


As For vaping, part of it could just be plain old CURIOUSITY, as it was with me....I'm not a shopper, eater, drinker, and didn't smoke much when I did smoke. I have been thru a number of mods just because I wanted to see what this or that "gadget" did and how it worked.

To be honest, I was able to find satisfaction, in different ways, with everything from a Provari to a lRider Robust to a vmod to a reo, etc. etc. They all do the same thing, a little different form factor, a little bit different experience. I have a $20 plastic 14500 box mod that actually puts out the same vape as an expensive 14500 mod, if using the same delivery device and battery!! Problem is that is won't last long, due to hot glue, thin plastic, etc. and that is why it's cheap and one might pursue a better mod.

I think people go thru this with chasing ejuice......until they get to a certain point in the quest and realize they are kinda getting *repeats*.....more or less. And that is when they finally pull back, find a few things they can live with, and stop the incessant chasing.

 

[Penn]

First, let me say that the term "OCD" is so over-used these days, it kinda makes me laugh because if you worked with actual OCD cases under DSM-II diagnostic categories, you would see that what many use this word to describe certain behaviors it is NOT anything even close to OCD.

In the last few decades, people co-opted the use of the word "depression" in the same way. I hear it all the time "I'm depressed about this, I'm depressed about that." It sort of trivializes the actual disease, and those suffering from TRUE depression, which is very different than feeling a bit blue (a normal human condition and not a mental illness) etc.

I truly wish the word OCD would be replaced with proper synonyms in usage here, (so as not to confuse actual OCD as described under DSM-II and those truly suffering from this difficult disorder for real) and the feelings millions of people have that just involve liking a tidy kitchen, or a clean car, or a well-ordered sewing box or vape gear box, or like to line up their seasonings on the shelf neatly with labels facing outward.

Because the latter behaviors are NOT OCD........and not EVEN CLOSE.



Not sure how this is different than people who like to shop a lot, or eat a lot, in an attempt to "feed" some empty feeling they have inside? Which is really more of philosophical and / or spiritual problem that manifests in so many of the behaviors we see in modern times.

I see it across the board, not just with vaping.

There appears to be a huge segment of the american society who has an itch that can't seem to be scratched, and of course, that bears further investigation by the individuals feeling that way.


As For vaping, part of it could just be plain old CURIOUSITY, as it was with me....I'm not a shopper, eater, drinker, and didn't smoke much when I did smoke. I have been thru a number of mods just because I wanted to see what this or that "gadget" did and how it worked.

To be honest, I was able to find satisfaction, in different ways, with everything from a Provari to a lRider Robust to a vmod to a reo, etc. etc. They all do the same thing, a little different form factor, a little bit different experience. I have a $20 plastic 14500 box mod that actually puts out the same vape as an expensive 14500 mod, if using the same delivery device and battery!! Problem is that is won't last long, due to hot glue, thin plastic, etc. and that is why it's cheap and one might pursue a better mod.

I think people go thru this with chasing ejuice......until they get to a certain point in the quest and realize they are kinda getting *repeats*.....more or less. And that is when they finally pull back, find a few things they can live with, and stop the incessant chasing.

Why are you so obsessive compulsive about making sure DSM-II definitions are followed.

I get a bit annoyed about people misusing psychiatric terminology also. Psychopath, antisocial and fetish do not mean what most people seem to believe they mean.

As to the OP, I am satisfied with my evods and mods (by mod I mean the original definition - I modified some egos). But then again, when I buy some cool new toy I can leave it sitting on the table in it's box for quite some time before finally opening the box. Where I used to work I won a portable DVD player. I had it sitting in the office for about 3 hours, unopened, while at least 10 people came in to see it, expecting I would have had it out and playing with it.

More to the point though, what drives people to have GAS or cloud chase is the same motivating factor to any hobby.

 

[Vapolith]

You like ze juice, eh? I get you more juice! (snl skit, nevermind folks)

Stavros, is that you?

 

[shatner]

Hmmm... interesting views. Good to see people thinking and sharing those thoughts. No right or wrong here... just sharing and thought provocation.

I'm quite happy with vaping... for me, it's a different experience rather than a substitute, that I actually enjoy more than cigarettes.

I must admit, being a engineer, ex-machinist, ex-gunsmith and ex-technical instructor by trade (would that be by ex-trade?) I truly enjoy playing with RDA and RBA attys, mech mods, building "the perfect coil" and all the other little nik-noid fun things you can do with vaping accoutrements.

Cigarettes never gave me that experience... and had I known about vaping sooner, I would have bailed on butts much sooner as well. I get my hand to mouth - inhale/exhale - taste and flavor - "smoke" billowing etc etc - with the added benefit of fun toys to tinker with. ;-)

Funny, I'm a gunsmith (wth an SOT rider for NFA item manufacture) and a glassblower/flame worker. There's nothing I hate more than messing with RBAs and RDAs. Us gunsmiths deal with enough tiny parts.

What type of firearms did you work on? Pm me so as to not derail the thread anymore than I already have. Sorry, guys and gals.

 

[peterforpats]

" Us gunsmiths deal with enough tiny parts." sounds like a personal problem...and anatomy.

with smoking we were at the end of the road with how far you could take it. except for brand it was pretty much developed and over- buy a pack and smoke. vaping is pretty much in it's infancy with a lot more variable to chase the end result. in 30 years people may laugh when they see what ends we went through now to enjoy a vape. when the technology has settled down as much as cigarettes the landscape will be much different. look at audio- I chased turntables, amps, cassette players, speakers, etc. until the technology somewhat stabilized and I was comfortable with the equipment I have now. yes, there will be more advances but as time goes by the improvements will become evolutionary not revolutionary. folks, we are just at the beginning of the ride so chase what you want and enjoy it..........

 

[Arnie H]

Excellent points all around.I want to clarify my statement about OCD. As an OCD sufferer (and I have been diagnosed by several professionals, not that I needed it) I do see some parallels that intrigue me. Anyone who knows how the OCD brain works will tell you that for the OCD sufferer, there really is no middle ground. It is very much binary thinking. Something is either black or white (there are no shades of gray), it is either day or night (twilight does not exist), an answer is either true or false, 1 or 0. Its either heaven or hell (there is no purgatory for us). This thought process produces anxiety and discomfort and doubt. True satisfaction eludes us. Now let me say this OCD can be hellish and life destroying and quite disabling.

A very good movie to see on this aspect of OCD is "The Aviator" about Howard Hughes. A movie which is very difficult for me to watch.

But I like to focus on what I consider the positive aspects of OCD. And there are many subtypes. And in training ourselves to make OCD work for us, rather than against us. I beleive, although I cannot prove it, that people with OCD may have an increased ability to filter out external stimuli because of their tunnel like thinking. This filtering out of everything but what we are obsessing about can be both tragic as well as beneficial. Tragic, in that, like an addict, we will neglect family, friends, food, sleep, etc. when we are obsessing about something until we reach a resolution. It can be a positive thing though. I find my very "...." qualities to serve me well, for instance when I am mixing small amounts of e-liquid, where precision is important, when dealing with 100 mg strength nictotine where caution should be observed. I find it has always helped me in test taking, math and science. Yes, I was the slowest test taker in the class, but I also had the highest scores of anyone else. My understanding though, is that under the new DSM rules, OCD will no longer be classified as an anxiety disorder. It is beginning to be seen as something more unique.

I for one am not ashamed of my disorder, it is very much a part of who I am. And rather than go about hanging my head in shame saying "whoa is me I have OCD", I prefer to look on the bright side and focus on the positive things. No one should be ashamed of OCD because we did not choose to have this condition.

 

[tj99959]

Just a simple question; How will you ever know which one you like best if you haven't tried all of them?

 

[OlDogNewTricks]

And perhaps some other added features. EGO-Vibrate Evod Mt3 Atomizer Electronic Cigarette - China Electronic Cigarette, Ego-Vibrate

I knew that someone was going to 'whip this one out'... Nicely done!

 

[Arnie H]

Regarding the phenomenon of the "Unsatisfied Vaper" I do believe their may be some psychological basis for it. I am certainly not the only one who has noticed it. And it brings to mind a Pbusardo video, wherein he discusses the "vapor chaser" and this pre-occupation we seem to have with, in his words "more vapor, more vapor, we gotta have more vapor!!". He said we are not satisfied unless "We look like a locomotive" and then he showed a video clip with clouds of vapor encircling a mountain top (might have been from "Close Encounters"). Clearly it was entertaining, but the fact that it is mentioned may be proof of its existence.

 

[Arnie H]

Just a simple question; How will you ever know which one you like best if you haven't tried all of them?

Very true. Their is a steep experimentation curve with vaping.

 

[Penn]

Just a simple question; How will you ever know which one you like best if you haven't tried all of them?

That steps into different grounds. The question was about satisfaction. I was satisfied with a cigalike (somewhat). I did decide to find out if I liked something more. Ego was better. I am satisfied with that (fully) but that doesn't mean I won't try something else and even like that more.

 

[tj99959]

Regarding the phenomenon of the "Unsatisfied Vaper" I do believe their may be some psychological basis for it. I am certainly not the only one who has noticed it. And it brings to mind a Pbusardo video, wherein he discusses the "vapor chaser" and this pre-occupation we seem to have with, in his words "more vapor, more vapor, we gotta have more vapor!!". He said we are not satisfied unless "We look like a locomotive" and then he showed a video clip with clouds of vapor encircling a mountain top (might have been from "Close Encounters"). Clearly it was entertaining, but the fact that it is mentioned may be proof of its existence.

But - but, I'm a completely satisfied vaper. That's why I have lots of choices sitting here.

That steps into different grounds. The question was about satisfaction

No......... like best .......... satisfaction, pretty much the same.
I can always go back and reword the simple question if you would like.

 

[Penn]

No......... like best .......... satisfaction, pretty much the same.
I can always go back and reword the simple question if you would like.

You didn't create the thread. My comment was because YOUR question strays from the TITLE of the thread. Not saying you can't ask a question, just pointing out they are different questions.

 

[SpicyMcHaggis]

If I stay off ECF I tend to be satisfied...lol. I stopped frequenting ECF and magically stopped spending money. Hadn't been here much the last 6 months and was perfectly happy toking on what I have. Been perusing threads the last two days...got a VAMO on the way...a wrap...trying a new juicemeister...a recommended battery....blah, blah...

 

[Racehorse]

I had a really strong response to reading the second half of this post.

And I had a strong response to people tossing around psychiatric terminology like OCD and Depression which describe true states of human suffering and illness, and which isn't anything like just having a bad vape day.

The same kind of response I would likely have if subjected to hearing Oprah reinterpret existentialism or psychoanalysis. The reduction of the pursuit of pleasure (and vaping and all of its accessories and the experiences we associate with it are about just that) to a feeble atempt to fill up some kind of hole in the psyche which can only stop if we confront our internal problems is way off base for me.

If you have no holes to fill then you are a unique person. Congratulations on being perfectly balanced.

I was addressing a particular theory that the OP put forth, when they said:

So our brains are in deprivation mode so to speak. We feel incomplete, like we are missing something.

This is the exact same feeling that people battling obesity describe......, they use these exact words. They are not starving, they are eating, but they feel incomplete and deprived, and so they need *more*. This is not about the pursuit of pleasure at all....but describes the pursuit of satisfaction which cannot be attained.

And I'm saying that this is a mixed chemical/spiritual/psychological state because IMHO, it is. Whether or not you agree with that is okay with me, I do not think you are an a$$hole for saying it. I just don't see things the same as you do.

Which brings me to the fact that there is a huge difference between a hobby and an addiction.

For instance, I hang with a lot of people who's hobby is horse racing and pedigree analysis.
But there are also those who make wagers with their mortgage money.......and they will chase a win (even moreso during a losing streak.) They are not *hobbyists*. Something else is driving them.

The OP is bringing up "satisfaction" issues and both chemical and psychological possibilities that affect this, and I am merely following up with my own theories, since he asked.

The pursuit of pleasure is fine and healthy. Unlike insatiable appetite (for anything), which isn't fine and isn't healthy.

So yes, when I talk to somebody who has sampled 300 ejuices, and not out of a sense of curiousity but out of a sense of frustration, feels they desperately need to sample 300 more, then I am inclined to tell that person the truth: you are not going to find your unicorn. It is what it is, and there is something else going on.

 

[Racehorse]

double post, sorry.