Why vapers are never satisfied: A Theory.

Status
Not open for further replies.

RosaJ

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 30, 2012
2,014
3,034
The Woodlands, TX, USA
I've been vaping for 1 1/2 years. From the moment I started researching ecigs I knew in my mind it was something totally different from cigarettes. From the first puff I KNEW I enjoyed vaping better than smoking. I'm finally using a setup that works for me and don't really feel the need to continue searching for that "perfect vape" which by the way, I don't think it exists nor do we know what that really means.

For me, vaping is not the same as smoking.
 

tj99959

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
  • Aug 13, 2011
    15,116
    39,600
    utah
    I agree strongly with Racehorse on the use of terms being bandied around until they are meaningless. I have a learning disorder, part of which falls under the blanket term dyslexia. It's a bit annoying how often people use it incorrectly. And other terms as well; tell me what meds you're on and I'll believe your alleged diagnosis.

    Actually I consider being dyslexic a benefit, and don't consider myself dysfunctional at all because of it. I just had to learn how to use it to my advantage is all. About the only thing that still gives me trouble is distinguishing a lower case "b" form a lower case "d" because I perceive them as being the same.

    BTW, there would have never been a theory of relativity if Albert had not been acutely dyslexic.
    Did you know that Woodrow Wilson once misspelled his own name when signing legislation into law.
     
    Last edited:

    The Ocelot

    Psychopomp
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Aug 12, 2012
    26,497
    79,193
    The Clock Barrens, Fillory
    Actually I consider being dyslexic a benefit, and don't consider myself dysfunctional at all because of it. I just had to learn how to use it to my advantage is all. About the only thing that gives me trouble is distinguishing a lower case "b" form a lower case "d" because I perceive them as being the same.

    BTW, there would have never been a theory of relativity if Albert had not been acutely dyslexic.
    Did you know that Woodrow Wilson once misspelled his own name when signing legislation into law.

    I do too actually. I am very creative in problem solving, since I rarely understand directions and my vocabulary is huge because I use synonyms when I can't spell something. I wasn't tested until I was an adult and they pointed out coping skills I was using that I was unaware of.
     
    Last edited:

    kushka

    Super Member
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Jul 23, 2010
    777
    233
    Marietta, GA
    I agree strongly with Racehorse on the use of terms being bandied around until they are meaningless. I have a learning disorder, part of which falls under the blanket term dyslexia. It's a bit annoying how often people use it incorrectly. And other terms as well; tell me what meds you're on and I'll believe your alleged diagnosis.

    And I don't believe you are actually a dyslexic. Not that I care one way or another (actually, I have been diagnosed with dyslexia, but, I am not, I believe i have some related minor brain disorder that is actually closer related to aphasia then dyslexia as is classically defined, but one that does not have a label yet, and so some people group it with dyslexia.)

    I just believe you were extremely rude to question another posters admission to a disorder. One of my son's was diagnosed with OCD but chooses to manage it without medication, so whither or not a person is on meds is no indication that that they have received a diagnostics from a reputable clinician, and secondly any one can google common drugs to treat any disorder if they have a reason to fool anyone.

    The reason this forum works and is as productive as it is is that we give each other the benefit of the doubt. To openly question another honesty is such a way just hit me as extremely rude, and thus it really bothered me to read your post, and so I felt I had to say something.
     

    Mitey F

    Ultra Member
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Jan 6, 2013
    1,043
    862
    Michigan, yearning for home
    I don't think it's a "craving" or "addiction" thing. I think it's because what was (or still is) has now become a HOBBY. When we were smoking analogs, that was it. Maybe we tried a pipe, cigar, rolling tobacco flavors, different brands/blends of cigs, but that was it, that's what we got. There are only so many forms of tobacco.

    Then we found PV's. Now we have seemingly UNLIMITED CHOICES! We get to choose our mod. Tiny automatic? Giant VV/VW? Mech mod? Then our delivery device. Clearos? Cartos? Tanks? Or RBA's (which gets even more involved). Then FLAVORS! Oh the flavors! Of course, when you choose a new flavor, how much PG/VG? How much nicotine?

    There are infinite choices for us now. When we were smoking there were what, 30 choices in cigarette brands?

    I think that it's not that we're CRAVING our FIX, it's that we've found something that is SOOO much better than cigarettes that we think "Well, if this is so much better than what I had, there's got to be something even BETTER, right?"
     

    skymyrka

    Senior Member
    ECF Veteran
    Jun 13, 2013
    133
    64
    nyc
    I humbly submit that the situation is similar to Haagen-Dazs experiment (when presented with too many choices, customer is incapable of making a selection). When there are WAY too many choices one cannot simply decide and make up their minds, so they keep on searching/seeking/ugrading/changing/etc. Cigarettes are simple: menthol or non-menthol, filtered or unfiltered, and from there on you have very few choices as far as actual taste, so you settle for one and keep going. It's a habit, it's a ritual, it's hardly about the selection and choices. eCig is a whole new culture in that respect. Endless possibilities for gear and flavors.
     
    Last edited:

    tanzmitpalmer

    Senior Member
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Jul 30, 2013
    135
    182
    Kentucky
    The same thing happens with phones. Fragrances. Makeup. Computers. Appliances. Cars. The new thing comes out, you have to have it. It's definitely not a smoker thing... it's a consumerist thing.

    Personally, since getting my SVD, I am completely and entirely satisfied with my vaping experience. Does that mean I'm not going to keep trying all the tanks, all the juices, and "oooh" over the newest mods? Naw, of course I will. Because I'm a bloody American, and I buy things.
     

    Unfettered

    Super Member
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Nov 5, 2009
    715
    2,083
    Texas
    I humbly submit that the situation is similar to Haagen-Dazs experiment (when presented with too many choices, customer is incapable of making a selection). When there are WAY too many choices one cannot simply decide and make up their minds, so they keep on searching/seeking/ugrading/changing/etc. Cigarettes are simple: menthol or non-menthol, filtered or unfiltered, and from there on you have very few choices as far as actual taste, so you settle for one and keep going. It's a habit, it's a ritual, it's hardly about the selection and choices. eCig is a whole new culture in that respect. Endless possibilities for gear and flavors.

    The same thing happens with phones. Fragrances. Makeup. Computers. Appliances. Cars. The new thing comes out, you have to have it. It's definitely not a smoker thing... it's a consumerist thing.

    Personally, since getting my SVD, I am completely and entirely satisfied with my vaping experience. Does that mean I'm not going to keep trying all the tanks, all the juices, and "oooh" over the newest mods? Naw, of course I will. Because I'm a bloody American, and I buy things.


    Yep and yep, my sentiments exactly.
    OP, it's a fine theory and could very well be true for some, but for me, it's just the way I am. Always want bigger, better, faster, newer, etc.....with everything, not just ecigs. It's human nature to want what you don't currently have if there is even a HINT that it might be better in some way. And as someone pointed out, as smokers, we tend to have addictive personalities. Shopping can be every bit the addiction that smoking is.

    That said, I don't feel the least bit deprived when I vape instead of smoke. I've quit completely twice now. Both times, the day I got my setup and ejuice I vaped exclusively from that day forward and never looked back. (I was an idiot and started smoking again after having quit *everything* for three years the first time. I didn't need them, I was just a dumbass.) That's not to say that I didn't struggle some in the beginning, or have moments where it felt like vaping wasn't quite doing it for me. But it was short lived. In fact, I've already lowered my nicotine twice in the 3 months I've been back at it, and I'm about to do it again. I already have times when I just simply forget to vape for long stretches. My need to fill a hole is long behind me.

    So yeah, at least for me.....I just covet what I don't have as a rule. :laugh: It ain't pretty, but there it is.
     

    The Ocelot

    Psychopomp
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Aug 12, 2012
    26,497
    79,193
    The Clock Barrens, Fillory
    I agree strongly with Racehorse on the use of terms being bandied around until they are meaningless. I have a learning disorder, part of which falls under the blanket term dyslexia. It's a bit annoying how often people use it incorrectly. And other terms as well; tell me what meds you're on and I'll believe your alleged diagnosis.

    And I don't believe you are actually a dyslexic. Not that I care one way or another (actually, I have been diagnosed with dyslexia, but, I am not, I believe i have some related minor brain disorder that is actually closer related to aphasia then dyslexia as is classically defined, but one that does not have a label yet, and so some people group it with dyslexia.)

    I just believe you were extremely rude to question another posters admission to a disorder. One of my son's was diagnosed with OCD but chooses to manage it without medication, so whither or not a person is on meds is no indication that that they have received a diagnostics from a reputable clinician, and secondly any one can google common drugs to treat any disorder if they have a reason to fool anyone.

    The reason this forum works and is as productive as it is is that we give each other the benefit of the doubt. To openly question another honesty is such a way just hit me as extremely rude, and thus it really bothered me to read your post, and so I felt I had to say something.

    Pardon me if I wasn't clear. When I said other "And other terms as well," I was referring to other terms people use incorrectly, for example depression, mania and bipolar. I was in no way questioning the OP and I hope no one else misunderstood me. When someone tells me they are bipolar, but have never been on a mood stabilizer I don't feel out of line wondering about the accuracy of the self-diagnosis. It is not something I would ever confront someone about, it's none of my concern, but I will wonder nonetheless.

    ETA: And you are correct, I am not "a dyslexic." I am a person who has a learning disorder that includes difficulty processing visual and auditory input.
     
    Last edited:

    moondragon

    Super Member
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Feb 26, 2012
    796
    1,834
    This has been an interesting discussion to read. I really don't want this to become an all-ecompassing hobby, and I am happy to stay with what works for me with minimal tinkering or fuss. Though, in general the past few years, I have also been on a path of figuring out what I really need and what I really like to have around, so de-cluttering and keeping what I feel is the best has been a major focus and has probably also helped me in not going overboard with e-cig hardware or juices.
     

    kbf101998

    Ultra Member
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Aug 30, 2013
    1,759
    3,917
    Brentwood, Tn, USA
    This is mostly conjecture, I am neither a medical doctor nor a mental health professional. But I think there may be some psychological basis which may explain the behaviour of many vapers (including myself) at least on a subconscious level.

    Those of us who are ex-smokers (which is likely the majority) are simply not being satisfied by e-cigs. Let me explain:

    As much as we may try to replicate the whole smoking thing via electronic cigarettes, and despite the fact that we know consciously that e-cigs cannot (as of yet and probably never will) deliver the exact same experience and satisfaction that cigarettes did, subconsciously our brains are still seeking this satisfaction and experience. And even though we are still getting nicotine in many cases, our bodies and minds are deprived of the thousands of other chemicals we became accustomed to while smoking.

    So our brains are in deprivation mode so to speak. We feel incomplete, like we are missing something. We have a hard time being satisfied with vapor volume, throat hit, flavor, etc. And even when we think we are satisfied, something happens that proves we are not. This extends to devices as well. How can we account for the "vape mail" phenomena? Which reduces vapers to a near childlike state of anticipation?

    For instance, I promised myself on several occasions, that I was satisfied with the equipment I had, but then something new comes out, and I find myself buying something else. Or a new vaping fad arises and I want to know more about it and feel I am missing out on something if I don't get in on it. Psychologically, our subconscious minds may be trying to fill this void/gap left after we quit smoking and switched to e-cigs a and our bodies and brain, were no longer getting the thousands of chemicals we were accustomed to.

    As an individual with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) I see some parallels here that I think are interesting. For many with OCD, there is a similar feeling of "incompleteness", "wrongness","dissatisfaction". ect, which is brought on by intrusive/unwanted thoughts. This compels the person with OCD to seek some relief from the anxiety which these thoughts and feelings create which leads to compulsions (also known as rituals) as a means of seeking relief and achieving satisfaction and completeness/correctness. But the complusions are only a temporary fix and actually serve to reinforce this behavior. I believe, therefore, that a similiar process is occuring within the minds of vapers who were ex-smokers. So the seemingly endless pursuit of larger/thicker vapor clouds, greater throat hit, the best flavor, the hottest vape, the best device, the latest trends, etc. is a function of our subconscious brain's feeling of deprivation. There are also elements of perfectionism, which is observable in both cases.

    Any thoughts? Comments?

    Interesting--I think you might be on to something here. I was never on an eternal search for he right analog-:unsure:
     

    PhoenixD

    Senior Member
    ECF Veteran
    Aug 23, 2013
    194
    238
    Austin TX
    I think the theory as to why SOME vapors are "not satisfied" is simply this: ever heard the saying "like a kid in a candy shop"? Well, I never heard of that, saw that, tried that (etc) with cigarettes. I don't remember --back when EVERYONE smoked when I was in college --- anyone (including myself) eagerly inquiring "you smoke Salems/Marlboros/Camels/etc??? Can I try one? THIS IS SUPER!"

    But with vaping it has many "draws" for many of us, all the types of equipment, flavors, DIY for those inclined...WHOOPEE for variety AND for flavors that make me feel "like a kid in a candy shop".
     

    Arnie H

    Super Member
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Jun 25, 2013
    989
    944
    Greensboro, NC, USA
    www.bigtent.com
    Glad to see all the posts and that it has made people think and talk.

    So the "Unsatisfied Vaper" phenomena may well be a more complex thing than we really know. Involving aspects of basic human nature, addictive tendencies, vape mail love, etc. It is in essence seeking after the unobtainable. The ultimate vape, or high, as it were.

    Let me attempt to categorize this phenomena as it applies to vapers and vaping, and I am not trying to label anyone or anything, I just see difference aspects of the cigarette satisfaction equation or the lack thereof which is different for every individual:

    1. There are the flavor chasers (which another poster mentioned). No flavor is strong enough or good enough for this vaper. Some flavor chasers may find their desired flavors and their "sweet spot", but for others it may be a continual and never ending quest. I count myself as one of these vapers. I might like something, but then I try something else, and my previous favorites are no longer my favorites.

    2. There are the vapor or cloud chasers. :vapor: Here too, some are able to reach their desired satisfication level, but for others, they literally will not be satisfied until they have converted themselves into living chimneys. As Pbusardo noted jokingly, but which I believe has a basis in reality.

    3. There are the throat hit vapers. Throat hit is not a big thing for me, but for others it may be very important. Again, some will find their desired satisfaction level, others will require the equivalent of a Karate chop to the throat before they are satisfied and maybe not even then.

    4. Draw: Some like it stiff others prefer loose and airy. The reactions to the original Protank's draws are clear and ample evidence of at least some level of dissatisfaction and of peoples individual preferences. For me, I found the right draw on the Davides, but not until I had covered up two of the three airholes. And still, their is a part of me that wishes there was another airhole in the things, cuz I feel I am not totally there yet.

    5. New Vapers: Due to the steep experimentation and learning curves, it may take sometime to find their desired level of satisfaction. Many will find it, others will not. Some will give up and go back to smoking. I count myself as a new vaper, as I am less than 3 months in. So this may be a part of it for me.

    6. The Hobyist/Tinkering/Gagdet loving Vaper: The sheer variety of choices when it comes to vaping and vaping equipment is mind blowing. These vapers really enjoy the hobbyist aspects of vaping. It is very much like a kid in a candy store. And there is a desire to constantly screw something new onto their device, or delve into the world of DIY E-liquid and rebuildables. Vaping becomes for them, in many cases, more than a hobby, it becomes a lifestyle. Indeed the whole vaping thing is something of a subculture. I count myself as one of these, and herein may lie the real joy of vaping.

    7. The Fad or Trend chasing Vaper: Because of the evolving nature of electronic cigarette technology, a new device is always coming out, or another way of doing things is discovered. None of us want to miss the "vaping boat" and for some vapers the social (facebook'esque) aspects of vaping are very important. It is very much "Keeping up with the Joneses" as it were.

    Many vapers can relate to some or all of these, and it is likely a complex cocktail of many things that come together. A very interesting and enjoyable topic. Thanks for all the replies.
     

    Mitey F

    Ultra Member
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Jan 6, 2013
    1,043
    862
    Michigan, yearning for home
    Glad to see all the posts and that it has made people think and talk.

    So the "Unsatisfied Vaper" phenomena may well be a more complex thing than we really know. Involving aspects of basic human nature, addictive tendencies, vape mail love, etc. It is in essence seeking after the unobtainable. The ultimate vape, or high, as it were.

    Let me attempt to categorize this phenomena as it applies to vapers and vaping, and I am not trying to label anyone or anything, I just see difference aspects of the cigarette satisfaction equation or the lack thereof which is different for every individual:

    I think you've hit the nail on the head. There are so many (necessary or unnecessary) choices to be made as a "vaper" that it's hard NOT to be constantly seeking something new. I don't think there's a soul out there that doesn't at least want to try new flavors to see if there's something even more delicious than their current ADV.
     

    GPSTrucker

    Super Member
    ECF Veteran
    Jun 2, 2013
    316
    376
    On the road
    Glad to see all the posts and that it has made people think and talk.


    6. The Hobyist/Tinkering/Gagdet loving Vaper: The sheer variety of choices when it comes to vaping and vaping equipment is mind blowing. These vapers really enjoy the hobbyist aspects of vaping. It is very much like a kid in a candy store. And there is a desire to constantly screw something new onto their device, or delve into the world of DIY E-liquid and rebuildables. Vaping becomes for them, in many cases, more than a hobby, it becomes a lifestyle. Indeed the whole vaping thing is something of a subculture. I count myself as one of these, and herein may lie the real joy of vaping.

    That would be me :)
     

    The Ocelot

    Psychopomp
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Aug 12, 2012
    26,497
    79,193
    The Clock Barrens, Fillory
    Nice summary Arnie!

    Since it touches in so many of points Arnie listed, I'm curious why there hasn't been more interest in the e-soild/gel. Both gotvapes and FastTech sell the atomizers for it and the gel, yet few people seemed to have tried it. In the thread below there is a link to the OP's review that has short videos of him vaping with the setup.

    http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...gel-paste-eliquid-concentrate-back-again.html

    I image more flavors would be available if there was a demand.
     
    Status
    Not open for further replies.

    Users who are viewing this thread