Wizard Labs Nic Base Reviews

[wolcen]

Hairball, Did you test it without flavor? I need that TH..lol

FWIW, I was vaping it unflavored @ 24-36mg. There is TH, but it seemed on the smoother side to me. Maybe it's just be me, I dunno? (e.g. CyrusVap didn't get much TH from RTS and I felt that TH was "normal", but then I haven't tried MFS, ECX, nor VZ). This was also while doing comparative testing with other nic in that range though, so I may have already toned down my TH response by that point - I was definitely reaching my limits that day LOL

I can mix some for some morning this week @ 30mg and do 50/50 vg/pg which will allow me to compare to RTS at the same ratio (I have RTS in VG 60mg and the Ice in PG 60mg so I'm stuck at 50/50 [at 30mg] to keep it apples-to-apples).

 

[Rocketman]

I would like to caution folks on comparing subjective characteristics like TH when making small batches of diluted juice. It would be difficult for each ingredient in a small 10 to 30ml 'batch' to be mixed with a precision of +/- 2% of final volume. Using appropriate labware this can be improved to about +/-1% for the various ingredients. In a laboratory environment and outstanding lab techniques ingredient accuracies in a small batch can be better than 0.1%, but not likely in the home lab. And surely not by using 'drops' for ANY ingredient.

24mg/ml diluted juice has 2.4% nicotine wt/v. To make a 10ml test batch of 24mg/ml to within 1% using 60mg/ml base would require 4.00ml +/- 0.04ml of base. How many drops is 0.04ml of VG based nic? of PG based nic? at what temperature? Won't happen.

The same thing goes for the other ingredients. Slight variations in the quantity of each ingredient may negate the validity of any comparative at-home tests.


This is fun. Realize the limitations.

 

[ToweKnee]

sheesh and I was just eye balling it

 

[Rocketman]

Left eye for PG, right eye for VG

 

[wolcen]

I would like to caution folks on comparing subjective characteristics like TH when making small batches of diluted juice. It would be difficult for each ingredient in a small 10 to 30ml 'batch' to be mixed with a precision of +/- 2% of final volume. Using appropriate labware this can be improved to about +/-1% for the various ingredients. In a laboratory environment and outstanding lab techniques ingredient accuracies in a small batch can be better than 0.1%, but not likely in the home lab. And surely not by using 'drops' for ANY ingredient.

24mg/ml diluted juice has 2.4% nicotine wt/v. To make a 10ml test batch of 24mg/ml to within 1% using 60mg/ml base would require 4.00ml +/- 0.04ml of base. How many drops is 0.04ml of VG based nic? of PG based nic? at what temperature? Won't happen.

The same thing goes for the other ingredients. Slight variations in the quantity of each ingredient may negate the validity of any comparative at-home tests.


This is fun. Realize the limitations.

I agree with you in principal, appreciate the reminder, and actually find it interesting to see the numbers put together like that. I have a somewhat different take on the matter though...

I typically use whatever I consider the smallest "reasonable" device to measure. In this case, I'm using a 5ml syringe if I'm measuring 4ml, and even a 10% error (two measurement ticks on the syringe eek!) would "only" (making the same error in opposite directions on each batch) make a total of 4.8mg difference. Now, that I might notice, but I think a +/-5% accuracy is much closer to what I'm able to easily attain, and that of course is only half the difference, or 2.4mg total difference (again, making the grossest error possible in opposing directions).

For me personally, 2.4mg is not something I could really detect, but I acknowledge some probably can.

I also admit I'm not the most perceptive test subject, so I openly advise anyone reading anything I write about TH/flavor/etc not to base any purchasing decisions on what I share! Take it collectively with other's feedback (or just ignore me altogether LOL).

@ the eyeballing remarks

 

[lauragal]

I would like to caution folks on comparing subjective characteristics like TH when making small batches of diluted juice. It would be difficult for each ingredient in a small 10 to 30ml 'batch' to be mixed with a precision of +/- 2% of final volume. Using appropriate labware this can be improved to about +/-1% for the various ingredients. In a laboratory environment and outstanding lab techniques ingredient accuracies in a small batch can be better than 0.1%, but not likely in the home lab. And surely not by using 'drops' for ANY ingredient.



24mg/ml diluted juice has 2.4% nicotine wt/v. To make a 10ml test batch of 24mg/ml to within 1% using 60mg/ml base would require 4.00ml +/- 0.04ml of base. How many drops is 0.04ml of VG based nic? of PG based nic? at what temperature? Won't happen.

The same thing goes for the other ingredients. Slight variations in the quantity of each ingredient may negate the validity of any comparative at-home tests.

This is fun. Realize the limitations.

Maybe I'm missing something here but it seems like a no-brainer to me - just use a measuring device?? I use a glass beaker and measure to the "t". I'm trying to figure out why the measuring part is so hard - am I missing something?

 

[Rocketman]

So sorry, did not want to start any kind of controversy.
A beaker, such as a 50ml breaker should be good to measure to within 2ml. The width of the beaker compared to the height is the problem in accurately determining the meniscus. All measuring devices will have at least two types of errors. Scale offset and scale linearity. A Class B 50ml graduated cylinder has a better accuracy than a beaker. About 1ml from 5 to 50 ml. That +/- 1ml could be scale offset and show up at the 5ml mark. Even good syringes, used to inject medicine in your arm have about +/-2% combined scale accuracy. A syringe is marked 'to deliver' from mark to mark while a beaker or cylinder is marked 'to contain'. Errors when measuring different ingredients with different instruments can be additive.
Even temperature can impact mix accuracies as the ingredients have different expansion coefficients (probably negligible for home mixing).

Try an blind experiment. Use a syringe to fill your beaker. Have someone add water with the syringe and you read the beaker.

All this is really a bit of overkill for home mixing. Making something 'close' is usually good enough. Making it over and over is the trick

The chance of mixing up something with an unexpected strength is unlikely. Mixing the same exact 'formula' time after time takes care.

 

[lauragal]

No, I was honestly asking if I was missing something!! I'm new to DIY and couldn't understand why it should be so complicated to measure! And my mistake, I don't use a beaker, I use a cylinder - this is the one I just bought - not sure how accurate it is:

Pyrex small sup reg sup small Brand 3026 Cylinder Class A To Deliver 25 ml - Pyrex reg Brand 3026 Cylinders from Cole-Parmer

Wow - I didn't realize it could be so complicated! I can imagine that mixing something to the same formula will be hard, however, I've only mixed two juices so far and didn't like either!

 

[lauragal]

BTW - what I bought is a class A "to deliver" beaker - so is that less accurate than a "B"?

 

[Rocketman]

A is better.


Reference to "beaker" threw me.

You done good


at least with accurate measurements you can reduce 'repeat failures'

 

[lauragal]

And I had no idea what I was doing - so that was luck!! I could see how that would throw you - just goes to show how much of a newbie I am at this!

 

[Rocketman]

Important criteria for DIY mixing:
1)safety
2) Fun
3) mixing something you can actually stand to vape

 

[lauragal]

Haha - got the first two!

 

[ToweKnee]

Im a vaping flavor ..... as that I cant vape a flavor other than grape ( thnx Rocket ) for more than a day without feeling the need to change up. I love me some tobacco though...

 

[Shilo]

I don't know when it's gonna hit the site, but keep checking all the time as I'm just about out (and also have a compulsive shopping issue with flavorings). I do have backups, but, well, I guess I'm just spoiled now

Thanks guys John read the thread and contacted me....lol I am excited to try this Ice.

 

[Shilo]

Shilo! Where have you been?

been elsewhere...lol

 

[Cyrus Vap]

been elsewhere...lol

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo don't leave us!

 

[wolcen]

So, Rocketman - you clearly know a heck of a lot more than I do about lab equipment. Would you hazard a guess at what a careful DIY'er might realistically be working with for an error %? Reading your responses makes me a little less confident in my +/- 5%...but I sure hope I'm getting at least that close

 

[Rocketman]

You calling me a 'Know-it-all'?

I'm sure that with just a little care, 5% accuracy is easily obtainable.
+/-5% of 36mg/ml strength is +/-1.8mg/ml. Someone would probably just be able to notice that.
A 5% error when adding 10% flavor (9.5 to 10.5%) would probably be noticeable.
Adding 10ml of flavor to a 100ml batch and reading that to +/-0.5ml should be doable.
PG/VG ratios are more forgiving but thinning isn't.
I see differences in viscosity between 5% and 6% water added to thin a VG base and could make the difference in wicking and drastically change the taste, throat hit, and either cause dry carto syndrome or embarrassing wet spots from carto leaks

Moisture content in VG and PG can easily change the viscosity of a DIY mix.
Both will start to absorb water from the air from the time the original container (tanker truck, barrel?) was unsealed. This can happen anytime VG or PG is repackaged or left open while mixing. Just 2 or 3% water absorbed makes a big difference.

 

[donnah]

I just placed an order from wizard labs a few days ago. I'm impressed with the prices and came here to ask if anyone had ordered from them, I don't see them listed as an ecf supplier so I was a bit worried. I've ordered nic from several vendors.. nicvape, ccv, rts and the last one was goodprophets. I've enjoyed all of them and wanted to reorder from good prophets but they were out of stock on the 36mg 240ml PGbased. I checked at rts but shipping was over $12!! someone on face book recommended them so I went to look and ordered immediately. I got 250ml of 36mg nic in PG, 250ml of PG and 120ml of VG and it all came to about $30 with shipping. Shipping was $8 but the prices were so low that it still made it by far the cheapest place.

I'm glad to see good reviews!