Blatant Disrespect IMHO

[7sixtwo]

Not much of a supporter of personal liberties, are ya, SimianSteam?

Are those who like a cup of coffee in the morning "junkies", in your opinion? How about someone who likes to have a drink or two when socializing? Someone who likes to have a little chocolate after dinner? All "junkies"?

 

[SimianSteam]

Every year, only 3% of smokers quit for good and nearly the same number of people become smokers, which keeps us right around a 20% smoking rate. And 30% of smokers never even try to quit.

E-cigarettes are not just a "quitting tool" or "recreational," they are a far safer alternative for smokers who cannot or will not quit. By eliminating their exposure to smoke, they eliminate their risk of smoking-related diseases. If they aren't getting smoking-related diseases, their lives will have been saved by the e-cigarettes.

Maybe e-cigarettes aren't saving your life, but they do have the potential to save the lives of inveterate smokers and significantly reduce the risks of those who won't quit today, next week or even in the next decade.

Thank you for taking one sentence of my post out of context and attacking it. Awesome tactic.

Not much of a supporter of personal liberties, are ya, SimianSteam?

Are those who like a cup of coffee in the morning "junkies", in your opinion? How about someone who likes to have a drink or two when socializing? Someone who likes to have a little chocolate after dinner? All "junkies"?

And yet another regrettable tactic used by those that can't compose cogent replies. Minimization.

I'm a heavy user of caffeine, but when I don't get it I get a minor headache, not shakes, sweats, and severe withdrawals. I try to avoid white sugar, but the same can be said for it.

Did you even READ the article I posted?

Anyways, I'm tapping out here before this gets out of hand. Please, continue to pat each other on the back because you managed to drive away all dissenting views. It obviously means that you're right.

 

[StormFinch]

Reality Check: It's a recreational habit. It's not the end of the world if they ban vaping in public places. I'm not even sure it SHOULD be fought against. There's no reason why we can't just vape in our homes and cars. Alcohol is restricted as far as where you can consume it. Why shouldn't other recreational chemicals?

Oh really? For an example of what happens when something isn't fought against, take a look at many hospitals. They've gone from banning smoking inside the buildings to banning it from the campuses to banning it from your own personal vehicle to banning people who have any nicotine in their systems from even WORKING there. How's that laying down and taking it working for them? I can certainly see banning it from inside the buildings, but the rest is just downright ridiculous.

 

[kristin]

Read this: http://www.nytimes.com/1987/03/29/magazine/nicotine-harder-to-kickthan-.......html

Nicotine is a drug. Without this drug we go through withdrawals. We therefor do whatever we can to ensure that we would continue to get that drug.

We're junkies. Deal with it.

Please don't act like we've got some kind of rare medical condition and are being persecuted because of it. At some point we all made the decision to start smoking, and while eCigs are a great tool to quitting they will not single-handledly save any lives. The desire to change will, however. eCigs do make it easier, but that doesn't mean that we should be given special treatment to use them wherever we want like they were asthma inhalers. It's recreational.

OK, I'll address the whole thing.

1) That article is garbage based on ANTZ propaganda. If nicotine is so "addictive" then why do patients being treated with 15 mg nicotine patches all day not become addicted? Why are smokers who have smoked for decades suddenly able to use non-nicotine e-cigarettes?

2) Just because something is a drug that causes symptoms when discontinued it doesn't mean the person is addicted (ie. my mother and her meds.)

3) There is a difference between "addiction" and "dependency." Not all dependencies are destructive. "Addiction" is a negative dependency that negatively impacts a person's quality of life and often of those around them. What is destructive about a dependency on vaping?

4) Addressed in my previous post.

5) While not being persecuted for a rare medical condition, we are being persecuted for a benign and legal "recreational" activity and our dependency on that activity. We are not asking for "special treatment," we are asking to be left alone. It's delusional to believe that the ANTZ will leave us alone even if we agree to vape outside, because their goal is to make us quit - regardless of whether or not we are hurting ourselves or others. They will not stop at banning it in stores and restaurants. It will continue on to parks, beaches, multi-unit housing, etc. It will continue in higher insurance premiums and refusal of employment because we have nicotine in our system. Anything to make us miserable enough until we give up and live their ideology.

If it makes me a zealot to not want to give them that power over me, so be it. I'm going to keep fighting.

 

[SorryNameTaken]

I live in a small town where the unfamiliar is not taken with ease. I find that, living in a place as such, I need to be cautious in my actions. While I do not have any problem with people pulling out their vaporizer whenever, and wherever, they please, I do know that we are fighting hard enough to keep our right to vape and I don't want to do anything to jeopardize losing that right.

That being said, I take a very conservative approach to vaping in public. I will vape in the parking lot, but I will not vape in a store or in a restaurant. Even if there were no political unrest about vaporizers going on in the world, I still wouldn't vape in these places simply because I didn't smoke in these places. I also recognize that I vape flavored liquids and there is still a smell and a visual aspect, so I see where that could make certain people who don't understand vaporizers uncomfortable.

I think it is, almost, a good thing to vape in a car, parking lot, walking down the street, etc. just so people can start seeing it in public, but I'd be hesitant to vape in any kind of enclosed place with strangers until vaping has become a topic more people understand and aren't afraid of.

 

[Racehorse]

So a topic that a lot of people have issues with is vaping in public.

Actually, this hasn't been brought up much, so I will mention it.

I am old school. to be honest, even when I smoked, I really didn't smoke much in public, if at all. Like chewing gum and having the cow motion going with your jaws, I am female and never felt that having a cigarette hanging out of my mouth, nor chewing on a cud of gum, is very *attractive*.

(I can also curse like a sailor, but I do tend not to do that anymore, esp. since I moved to the South, a lot of people do find it offensive and after listening to enough people do it I myself started to realize that using words, you can pick and choose......there's really nothing awfully "classy" about cursing every other sentence, so I jsut stopped doing it. I am not at all offended by people who do.....it's just not something I choose for myself. )

So, I just fell out of the habit of doing these things in public. That was my own choice, just like whether to vape in public or not is a personal thing, I believe.

I do carry an ego on a lanyard around my neck when out and about, but I'm usually too busy to remember to use it.

This has been done to death, I mean, I really don't care what other people do......but I certainly don't feel compelled to vape all over the place like it's some kind of "badge of courage" or something.

If it's important to somebody, then by all means, have at it!@!

Nobody in my circle smoked or smokes, so I was always the black sheep, I don't have one single close friend who uses cigarettes. And now, I don't either. I only dated one person in 20 years who smoked....and he was one of those who only had like 2 cigs a day

 

[DC2]

Now that we've switched to something that's less harmful some of us are still in the junkie mindset of, "Don't mess with my addiction!". SMH.

Do you shake your head equally as hard when you encounter caffeine junkies?
How about adrenaline junkies?

And for what it's worth, I am not addicted to nicotine, nor am I a junkie.
I prefer to use nicotine instead of caffeine, for it's many beneficial properties.

The word "junkie" as it relates to nicotine is an ANTZ term and tactic, and you are guilty of propagating that concept.

If you don't know what those beneficial properties are, I can help you out with lots of links.
Feel free to ask.

If you choose to be convinced that I am an addicted junkie making excuses, feel free to pursue that line of thought.
I am more than ready and prepared to prove you wrong.

In my personal opinion, you are brainwashed, just like a good percentage of the general public.
Nicotine is evil, yes?

No, actually, it isn't.

Reality Check: It's a recreational habit. It's not the end of the world if they ban vaping in public places. I'm not even sure it SHOULD be fought against. There's no reason why we can't just vape in our homes and cars. Alcohol is restricted as far as where you can consume it. Why shouldn't other recreational chemicals?

Reality Check: They are already starting to try and ban vaping in your car and even in your home.

If you need more links, I've got them.
Again, feel free to ask.

It will continue on to parks, beaches, multi-unit housing, etc. It will continue in higher insurance premiums and refusal of employment because we have nicotine in our system. Anything to make us miserable enough until we give up and live their ideology.

It will not "continue on" to those things, because those kinds of restrictions have been happening for some time now...
The Real Motivation Behind Park And Beach Smoking Bans - Forbes

If it makes me a zealot to not want to give them that power over me, so be it. I'm going to keep fighting.

If you ever get divorced, and I ever get divorced...

 

[Jay-dub]

Way to bring in an extreme position that's impossible to defend and compare it to my viewpoint! Next you can get REALLY original and mention Hitler or the Nazis.

From what I've seen of this discussion there are two viewpoints:

1- People that think that our behavior influences regulations, and says that we should try to avoid drawing attention to ourselves.

2- People who think that we're an unjustly persecuted minority, and espouse screaming and yelling until we get our own way.

I see nothing wrong with organizations like CASAA and other forms of activism. I've been to town hall meetings in my area to contribute my views on Vape Bans, something I doubt many of those that rant and rave about the anti-tobacco activists probably haven't done. At the same time I practice what I preach, don't vape in public areas, and have never had an issue. Coincidence?

There's a culture here. You're already getting the attention of the group thinkers. Tread lightly.

 

[lvm111]

Vapors that continue to flaunt our habit/addiction in non-smoking places, like they're so proud of it, and to hell with the shocked public, do it because they're ignorant and have no common sense! Note that I use the term "flaunt". I vape when it's either allowed, appropriate, or stealth vape. Not openly at the crowded checkout line in the store. That's just stupidity, IMO.

It's thinking similar to those that cover themselves with tattoos, and body piercings, and then openly display them. They like shocking the masses!

Unfortunately, that's what were getting grouped with as well. Vapor shops are being lumped in with tattoo parlors and biker clubs, because many of them resemble those.

best regards, larry mac

 

[Jay-dub]

I'll admit to stealth vaping at hockey games and the like. What people don't know won't hurt them right? Regardless of fact if you annoy people they won't like you. That goes for vaping as well as my personality.

 

[DC2]

It's thinking similar to those that cover themselves with tattoos, and body piercings, and then openly display them. They like shocking the masses!

There have been many times here on this forum when the discussion turns to NOT MAKING OTHER PEOPLE UNCOMFORTABLE.

And I have often said that there are MANY things that make me uncomfortable, but I don't run around trying to stop people from making me uncomfortable.
I just wish, as a RESPECTFUL vaper, that I could be treated at least as well as these people...

Extreme piercings search results

But no, smokers are currently treated as more vile than almost any other group.
And as legislation around the country continues it's steady march towards applying smoking rules to vaping, that becomes us.

Any vaper that is onboard with that philosophy needs to give some serious thought to what they are thinking.

 

[justagirl]

DC2-

Would put "like" but I don't like those "extreme piercings" AT ALL. Uugghh that one girls back and the other girl with the zipper lip..... TERRIBLE.

That stuff just grosses me out.... Maybe I am just getting old.

Good point though.

JAG

 

[Jay-dub]

Just a thought...

If you could always see the exhaled air of others you'd be likely to adjust your proximity to not inhale their recently exhaled breath. Without seeing it, as long as you don't smell the funk, you're less likely to worry about it. Unfortunately, we get to remind people of how much of each other we're inhaling. Mmmmm...

Plus, we look like we enjoy vaping. Like we're getting something out of it. That alone makes it taboo for some.

 

[StormFinch]

Just a thought...

If you could always see the exhaled air of others you'd be likely to adjust your proximity to not inhale their recently exhaled breath. Without seeing it, as long as you don't smell the funk, you're less likely to worry about it. Unfortunately, we get to remind people of how much of each other we're inhaling. Mmmmm...

Plus, we look like we enjoy vaping. Like we're getting something out of it. That alone makes it taboo for some.

I would give just about anything to be able the "see" the cloud of perfume on the women who poured a quarter of a bottle of it on that morning.

 

[kristin]

The "I can see it, so it bothers me" phenomenon reminds me of open carry laws. People freak out when they see a group of people quietly eating dinner with their holstered firearms. But I'd be a lot more worried about the guys carrying guns that I CAN'T see! LOL!

The point about exhaled breath - if people KNEW what they were inhaling they'd be just as freaked out. What we exhale contains formaldehyde, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, nitrogen and if you have fillings - even neurotoxic mercury vapor. The human breath contains upwards of 250 chemicals!

 

[Jay-dub]

I'm not really helping the cause with a PV in hand that looks like a thermo-nuclear device. But, it's like when siblings point at each other with the "I'm not touching you" excuse. It's provocation and some people look for it. Does vaping harm bystanders? NO. Did pointing a finger at a sibling harm them? NO. But stand at a bus stop pointing at somebody and see if they like it. When they ask you to quit tell them how harmless it is. I'm sure they'll agree.

 

[Racehorse]

but it's really smoker's fault that bans are in place, and it'll be vaper's fault when the eCig bans spread all over as well.

Wha?????
????????????????????????

 

[Uma]

My point still stands. Just because science is currently of the opinion that something is without harm doesn't mean it's always going to be that way. Remember that there was a time when Cigarettes were considered safe.

In the end it all comes down to respect. I respect those around me not to subject them to anything they might not want to inhale, regardless of whether I believe it's harmless or not. People can rant and rave about the "Antz" (a term I find annoyingly adorable and condescending) but it's really smoker's fault that bans are in place, and it'll be vaper's fault when the eCig bans spread all over as well. No point banning something you can't see, so vape responsibly and subtly and we'll all be fine.

Way back then, they didn't have the lab tests, comparison charts, knowledge they do now.
Today, they do and the scientists compare their findings with cigarettes. It's unanamous, vaping is far far far safer than cigarettes.
Oh, also, the Robertson 1942 test on monkeys, the 1993 tests on mice, all show that pg is safe to inhale. (asthma inhalers appreciate this finding, for instance).
Flavors? Use at your own discretion.
Nicotine? Melts in your mouth, not in your lungs.

 

[Uma]

The "I can see it, so it bothers me" phenomenon reminds me of open carry laws. People freak out when they see a group of people quietly eating dinner with their holstered firearms. But I'd be a lot more worried about the guys carrying guns that I CAN'T see! LOL!

The point about exhaled breath - if people KNEW what they were inhaling they'd be just as freaked out. What we exhale contains formaldehyde, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, nitrogen and if you have fillings - even neurotoxic mercury vapor. The human breath contains upwards of 250 chemicals!

I'd feel safer sitting next to a Vaper than to a non Vaper. The Vaper isn't exhaling extra germs like the non Vaper is.
PG is a germicide type thing, I forget the right name.

 

[Uma]

My point still stands. Just because science is currently of the opinion that something is without harm doesn't mean it's always going to be that way. Remember that there was a time when Cigarettes were considered safe.

In the end it all comes down to respect. I respect those around me not to subject them to anything they might not want to inhale, regardless of whether I believe it's harmless or not. People can rant and rave about the "Antz" (a term I find annoyingly adorable and condescending) but it's really smoker's fault that bans are in place, and it'll be vaper's fault when the eCig bans spread all over as well. No point banning something you can't see, so vape responsibly and subtly and we'll all be fine.

That sentence bolded is actually spot on. Smokers allowed themselves to be bullied to no end. Still do. Had they of stood up and demanded their rights from the start, they ... you know, come to think of it, it was the smokers who asked for smoking sections, out of courtesy. Courtesy got us nowhere.