Nicotine not addictive? Yeah right!

[AndriaD]

Oh, the whining about "addiction" again? *yawn* - And always from the people who are addicted to criticizing others and playing "holier-than-thou". *double yawn*

You stop your finger pointing, and I'll stop my yawning. Deal?

Now now, no denial please. Those holier-than-thou finger pointers know exactly who they are...

By the way, anyone here addicted to Oreos?
Or maybe not?

Hey, this works out, Anja... I'm currently reading a book that most would consider a real yawner... a history of the 100 Years War. It's actually quite interesting, and incidentally, it's finally answering my question "what was the War of the Roses actually ABOUT?" Anyway, it's already covered Crecy and Poitiers, with Agincourt coming up next -- and I wonder how many of those modern Brits know that when they hold up those two fingers (what Americans consider a "peace sign"), they're actually showing the rude gesture of the English archers to the French who threatened to cut off those archers' fingers...

Ok, I'm also addicted to historical minutiae of very little interest to anyone, except history geeks.

Andria

 

[tchavei]

Hey, this works out, Anja... I'm currently reading a book that most would consider a real yawner... a history of the 100 Years War. It's actually quite interesting, and incidentally, it's finally answering my question "what was the War of the Roses actually ABOUT?" Anyway, it's already covered Crecy and Poitiers, with Agincourt coming up next -- and I wonder how many of those modern Brits know that when they hold up those two fingers (what Americans consider a "peace sign"), they're actually showing the rude gesture of the English archers to the French who threatened to cut off those archers' fingers...

Ok, I'm also addicted to historical minutiae of very little interest to anyone, except history geeks.

Andria

History is always an interesting subject, especially because some isn't understood and I always liked mysteries


Regards
Tony

Sent from my GT-I9195 through Tapatalk

 

[sub4me]

Who cares anymore, it doesn't even make a difference at this point.

 

[AndriaD]

History is always an interesting subject, especially because some isn't understood and I always liked mysteries


Regards
Tony

Sent from my GT-I9195 through Tapatalk

To me, history is like a jigsaw puzzle; the further back, the fewer pieces remain from which to try and make a coherent picture.

Andria

 

[beckdg]

and I wonder how many of those modern Brits know that when they hold up those two fingers (what Americans consider a "peace sign"), they're actually showing the rude gesture of the English archers to the French who threatened to cut off those archers' fingers...

Speaking of Archer...

http://youtu.be/VU0GYSA1POs

Thought this might be appropriately themed for one of these current threads.

Sent from my device.

 

[readeuler]

Speaking of Archer...

http://youtu.be/VU0GYSA1POs

Thought this might be appropriately themed for one of these current threads.

Sent from my device.

You know, I've wanted find an ANTZ meme/pun here, but just haven't figured out a way. It really seems unfortunate.

 

[cocoloco]

I think most people make wayyyyyyyyy too much out of the whole addiction thing. I mean, so you're addicted... so what?????? who cares?????????? what difference does it make to anything??????????? It is NOT a "character defect" to be addicted to something!

Sheesh.
Andria

Chill out, Andria. This is about opinions, not shooting others down.

 

[Jman8]

Chill out, Andria. This is about opinions, not shooting others down.

In essence, you said the same thing Andria did, but providing a different context.

Our 'knowledge' on addictions is based on opinions and then, often, about shooting down those who, in our opinion, are addicted. Andria said to chill that out.

 

[navigator2011]

By the way, anyone here addicted to Oreos?
Or maybe not?

No. But once I start, I cannot stop.

Seriously, it's easier to just avoid them in the first place.

 

[AndriaD]

In essence, you said the same thing Andria did, but providing a different context.

Our 'knowledge' on addictions is based on opinions and then, often, about shooting down those who, in our opinion, are addicted. Andria said to chill that out.

Precisely. There's not the first bit of "shooting others down" in my post. What there is, is a frustration with those who seem to think there's something "bad" about being addicted to something. It really depends on the "something" they're addicted to, and even then, it's not that they're "bad" but that they have a medical condition requiring treatment -- and nicotine is very definitely NOT in that category. I've suffered, and recovered from, a few of those other addictions, and I do know the difference.

There is also a vast difference between individuals -- my husband is one of those infuriating people who can lay anything down, cold-turkey, and go right on with his life like, hey, it's no big deal; I'm definitely not one of those, but I know that addictions *can* be overcome, if the individual WANTS to overcome them -- and that wanting is crucial -- not many, if any, have overcome addictions because someone else thought they ought to -- it just doesn't work like that. Which speaks to the "nicotine addiction" quite clearly: if someone wants to overcome their nicotine addiction, then e-cigs make it much easier than any other method, but if they don't want to, what we know now is that nicotine, divorced from the toxins in cigarette smoke, isn't terribly harmful -- at least, no more so than caffeine.

Certainly, there are those who, for their own reasons, may want to eliminate or drastically lessen their caffeine addiction -- I was one of them, at one point, and now I consume very little caffeine at all -- 2 cups of tea in the morning, and very occasionally, a soda -- loves me some Dr Pepper, but I can't handle a steady diet of the good Dr or it completely wires me. A lot of folks here seem to, eventually, take the same approach to nicotine -- they may reduce it till they're down to 0mg or 2 or 3 mg, but they keep a little stronger formulation around, for stressful times. Is that addiction? Some say it is; I say it's really just "dependance" which actually isn't all that strong, or they'd want that stronger formulation all the time -- I used to NEED that caffeine in coffee around the clock, but I don't any longer.

The point I'm trying (and trying, and trying, and trying) to make is that having an addiction to nicotine does not make anyone a junkie or a bad person -- it usually indicates a person who is a former smoker, who is trying to be healthier by not smoking any longer, but who now has this perhaps-permanent change in their brain's chemistry that makes them want nicotine, in greater or lesser amounts, depending on the circumstances. It's NOT a character defect.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

No. But once I start, I cannot stop.

Seriously, it's easier to just avoid them in the first place.

Heh.. that's exactly how I feel about blueberry muffins -- it saves me having to remove 30 unwanted lbs at some point down the road.

Andria

 

[tchavei]

Ok guys, this has been fun but I'm going to unsubscribe from this thread as I realized that I'm surrounded by addicts and it might be catchy...






... Says the overweight, 18mg/ml nicotine and daily 5 cups of expresso coffee NOT ADDICTED to anything, Tony



Regards
Tony

Sent from my GT-I9195 through Tapatalk

 

[bluecat]

Heh.. that's exactly how I feel about blueberry muffins -- it saves me having to remove 30 unwanted lbs at some point down the road.

Andria

It is bad that I loved softened butter with my blueberry muffins? Real butter not that oil crap that know one knows what it is exactly made of.

 

[AndriaD]

It is bad that I loved softened butter with my blueberry muffins? Real butter not that oil crap that know one knows what it is exactly made of.

I dunno, I never put anything on my blueberry muffins -- no time for that, just open up and toss 'em in! My husband actually said to me at one point, "you know, those aren't M&Ms."

So now I just vape Blueberry Muffin -- no calories! Hang the nicotine -- and the WTA too!

Andria

 

[cocoloco]

In essence, you said the same thing Andria did, but providing a different context.

Our 'knowledge' on addictions is based on opinions and then, often, about shooting down those who, in our opinion, are addicted. Andria said to chill that out.

I am obviously not acquainted with Andria's posting style. To me, and at first glance, it read petulant, uncaring and dismissive. My first reaction was to mentally chastise Andrea for not caring and for downplaying the concerns of the OP and others here.

For that misunderstanding, Andria, I apologize.

But for the record, I consider nicotine to be addictive. Although my particular addiction does not rise to the level of medical intervention and I don't consider myself to be a bad person, I do feel a weakness in my character that vaping is helping me overcome. For that reason alone, I respect and empathize with anyone in similar circumstances and avoid a "tough-love" approach.

Sensitivity is the awareness of the feelings of others. I guess mine just overreacted. Sorry.

 

[DC2]

Precisely. There's not the first bit of "shooting others down" in my post. What there is, is a frustration with those who seem to think there's something "bad" about being addicted to something. It really depends on the "something" they're addicted to, and even then, it's not that they're "bad" but that they have a medical condition requiring treatment -- and nicotine is very definitely NOT in that category. I've suffered, and recovered from, a few of those other addictions, and I do know the difference.

There is also a vast difference between individuals -- my husband is one of those infuriating people who can lay anything down, cold-turkey, and go right on with his life like, hey, it's no big deal; I'm definitely not one of those, but I know that addictions *can* be overcome, if the individual WANTS to overcome them -- and that wanting is crucial -- not many, if any, have overcome addictions because someone else thought they ought to -- it just doesn't work like that. Which speaks to the "nicotine addiction" quite clearly: if someone wants to overcome their nicotine addiction, then e-cigs make it much easier than any other method, but if they don't want to, what we know now is that nicotine, divorced from the toxins in cigarette smoke, isn't terribly harmful -- at least, no more so than caffeine.

Certainly, there are those who, for their own reasons, may want to eliminate or drastically lessen their caffeine addiction -- I was one of them, at one point, and now I consume very little caffeine at all -- 2 cups of tea in the morning, and very occasionally, a soda -- loves me some Dr Pepper, but I can't handle a steady diet of the good Dr or it completely wires me. A lot of folks here seem to, eventually, take the same approach to nicotine -- they may reduce it till they're down to 0mg or 2 or 3 mg, but they keep a little stronger formulation around, for stressful times. Is that addiction? Some say it is; I say it's really just "dependance" which actually isn't all that strong, or they'd want that stronger formulation all the time -- I used to NEED that caffeine in coffee around the clock, but I don't any longer.

The point I'm trying (and trying, and trying, and trying) to make is that having an addiction to nicotine does not make anyone a junkie or a bad person -- it usually indicates a person who is a former smoker, who is trying to be healthier by not smoking any longer, but who now has this perhaps-permanent change in their brain's chemistry that makes them want nicotine, in greater or lesser amounts, depending on the circumstances. It's NOT a character defect.

Andria

I hope you dropped the microphone after you posted that...
We can close the forum now, we're done here.

 

[Jman8]

I am obviously not acquainted with Andria's posting style. To me, and at first glance, it read petulant, uncaring and dismissive. My first reaction was to mentally chastise Andrea for not caring and for downplaying the concerns of the OP and others here.

For that misunderstanding, Andrea, I apologize.

But for the record, I consider nicotine to be addictive. Although my particular addiction does not rise to the level of medical intervention and I don't consider myself to be a bad person, I do feel a weakness in my character that vaping is helping me overcome. For that reason alone, I respect and empathize with anyone in similar circumstances and avoid a "tough-love" approach.

Sensitivity is the awareness of the feelings of others. I guess mine just overreacted. Sorry.

Andria's post followed from mine that was addressed to you, which you haven't responded to yet. So, you consider nicotine addictive and those who dispute this are in denial. And I'm still asking for anyone to share with me a substance that is not addictive (for some people). Until then, I say chill on the addiction hype and the judgments about being in denial. Chances are very good that everyone on the planet is experiencing some sense of denial with regards to reality and personal attachments to physical substances. At same time, I think it wise to look in the mirror before espousing an insensitive remark about denial. Glad you reconsidered that earlier message.

 

[AndriaD]

I hope you dropped the microphone after you posted that...
We can close the forum now, we're done here.

Gosh I hope not -- I'm addicted to ECF!

Seriously... on my 5th day smoke-free, back in March -- I had been doing GREAT up to that point, no cravings, none of the usual withdrawal BS I was so afraid of... but on that 5th day smoke-free... ECF was completely down, and again the next day too, for most of the day. I completely lost it -- that first day it was down, it took me THREE HOURS to make breakfast; I was so spacey and unfocused, I couldn't remember what came next -- frying bacon is not exactly rocket science. It reminded me a lot of my early sobriety days; if I couldn't get to a meeting, I felt completely unmoored.

Besides, I'd miss all you guys if the forum went away.

Andria

 

[JustMeB]

YES!

I'd have much rather seen my brother vaping as a young boy than see what he went through on ritalin. That **** shouldn't be available for adults let alone to a large portion of the population of children.

I'd also rather seen my grandmother retain some cognizance in her later days.

Nicotine may be useful for treatment and vaping looks to be a healthier/safer alternative than anything that's on the market for ADD or alzheimers currently.

Sent from my device.

I am glad you said this, as my son is dyslexic and has other cognitive issues that relate to that (slow working/processing speeds/memory, executive function), and some say adhd, although peds and I both agree not. Regardless, after seeing the studies for Parkinson and Alzheimer with nicotine, it has become an interest of mine and can't get it out of my head if it would in fact help my son as well. I certainly would not put him on prescription drugs like Ritalin.

 

[AndriaD]

I am glad you said this, as my son is dyslexic and has other cognitive issues that relate to that (slow working/processing speeds/memory, executive function), and some say adhd, although peds and I both agree not. Regardless, after seeing the studies for Parkinson and Alzheimer with nicotine, it has become an interest of mine and can't get it out of my head if it would in fact help my son as well. I certainly would not put him on prescription drugs like Ritalin.

Just speaking as another "anecdote" here. My son suffered a lot with ADD, though fortunately none of the ADHD variety. But when I was discovering this about how such a brilliant person could fail in school, I realized that I had suffered the exact same problem when I was a kid, they just didn't know what to call it back then -- they thought I was lazy, or unmotivated, or just generally "seeking attention." But I learned pretty quickly after starting smoking (when I was 13) that smoking sharpened my attention and focusing skills dramatically. My son didn't start smoking till he was 18, away from home, but he discovered the same thing.

Now that nicotine can be delivered in several non-toxic ways, I wouldn't hesitate to give it to any child who struggles with this attention problem; I wish I'd understood this about nicotine, when my boy was struggling so badly.

Andria