Official Spin: Nicotine is more addictive than ......
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First off, Thank you so much Kristin. You are one of the *voices of reason* in our community and I always enjoy your posts because I never fail to learn something new from you.
Second, to those of you who have opened your hearts to us in this thread, bless you! Your honesty gives me permission to own my personal struggles and helps me put them in the perspective of what in means to be human.
One thing that I have learned from my 50 plus years of walking this earth is the we are NOT all created equal. I learned from a pretty early age that I had an addictive personality AND that most people coped with life's difficulties better than I did. I have done a balancing act my entire life to function to the best of my abilities both mentally and socially. It's been a struggle. Smoking has helped me to get through my life's ups and downs. I have quit, more times than I have fingers on my hands, but, I always went back because the quality of my life suffered.
The e-cigarette has provided everyone like me an alternative, not just a band-aid alternative, but a viable alternative that addresses the reasons that smoking has helped me all these years. I still have my quality of life without the side effects.
Kristen, you ask us to think. Good advice. Here's what I think.....The e-cigarette has the potential of saving millions of lives. The FDA should be putting this thing up for a Nobel Peace Prize!
Second, to those of you who have opened your hearts to us in this thread, bless you! Your honesty gives me permission to own my personal struggles and helps me put them in the perspective of what in means to be human.
One thing that I have learned from my 50 plus years of walking this earth is the we are NOT all created equal. I learned from a pretty early age that I had an addictive personality AND that most people coped with life's difficulties better than I did. I have done a balancing act my entire life to function to the best of my abilities both mentally and socially. It's been a struggle. Smoking has helped me to get through my life's ups and downs. I have quit, more times than I have fingers on my hands, but, I always went back because the quality of my life suffered.
The e-cigarette has provided everyone like me an alternative, not just a band-aid alternative, but a viable alternative that addresses the reasons that smoking has helped me all these years. I still have my quality of life without the side effects.
Kristen, you ask us to think. Good advice. Here's what I think.....The e-cigarette has the potential of saving millions of lives. The FDA should be putting this thing up for a Nobel Peace Prize!
Umm..yeah. You need to come back and read the thread. It's about addictions not all being negative and nicotine - NOT about smoking and NOT that nicotine isn't addictive - just the excessively negative spin put on it, about it's addictiveness compared to other drugs, which purposely paints nicotine users in a negative light and compares them to h-erion addicts.
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Let me ask you this - which one were you more motivated to quit? How was your crack use affecting your life that you WANTED to quit?
Maybe you just don't WANT to quit nicotine as much as you wanted to quit crack - especially since you can get nicotine in a relatively safe manner and it is somehow benefitting you.
Thsi statement makes me wonder about something. Are people talking about actually removing nicotine from their systems, or is it all wrapped up with trying to quit smoking as it is the delivery method of the nicotine, thus the two are associated as one?
I was telling a friend at work about vaping as she smokes alot and has talked about quitting. But all she did was counter any positive points about vaping with" but you're just giving up one habit for another".
That tells me that she is not really worried about quitting smoking, she is just self conscious of the demonization on tobacco.
For me the hard part to quit smoking was the habit and ritual of the "act", which many others have also stated that they enjoy.
So I wonder if someone says its so hard for me to quit nicotine, is it really that its hard to quit smoking but due to the association of tobacco and nicotine they are all lumped into one? And the affects they feel when quitting is associated to just nicotine rather than all the other chemicals being removed from your system?
Also, not meant as any type of insult or insinuation towards the quoted post. I personally feel everyone of us is different and reacts to things in a different way. For me cutting down on the nic content of my vaping didn't seem to be a big deal, to me, it may be for others.
Your co-worker's comment shows that she has bought into the concept that ALL addictions are BAD. If it was just the demonization of tobacco, then e-cigarettes wouldn't be of concern - they don't contain tobacco. It's also the demonization of the ACT of smoking, over the DANGER of smoking.
A few years ago, the anti-tobacco factions realized that they really couldn't "help" smokers. No matter what they did, they couldn't get the numbers of smokers down. So, instead they turned to demonizing the SMOKER. Making them pariahs - just as bad as h-eroin addicts. Not worthy of sympathy, only of scorn and isolation away from the rest of the population. No love lost for the smoker - they are just "addicts" and addicts are BAD.
The association of addiction being bad is relatively new, as well. Throughout most of modern history, addiction was simply seen as a passion, something a person couldn't live without. This addiction could be bad or good.
After the rise of h-eroin and other drugs in the late 20th century, the term "addiction" came to be associated with only the bad things associate with illegal drug use - prostitution, porn, robbery, murder, job loss, divorce, child neglect, etc.
"Addiction" no longer meant a passion, a need, a desire so strong that you can't live without it. It meant "burden on society" and "destructive behavior," regardless of the actual addiction. This is a relatively new concept.
There is no shame in being addicted to something - so long as it doesn't harm you or anyone else. Everyone has SOMETHING that makes them relax, reduces stress, makes them feel better, able to concentrate, etc. They are probably addicted to that thing, too. If you take it away, they would feel much of the same phycological withdrawl symptons described by drug addicts. But being a drug addict isn't always bad, either. Think about people on anti-depressants. Those drugs help them function and make them feel better (hopefully) and removing the drug would cause misery. Would anyone suggest taking those drugs away or making those people feel ashamed for their need? So, drugs aren't inherently bad - it's just the ATTITUDE about certain drugs.
Think about this, too - nicotine would probably be considered a miracle drug, if it hadn't first been associated with smoking and then demonized. Over 20% of the U.S. population (probably more if you include smokeless tobacco users) find the relief of nicotine so beneficial, that it overrides the fear of cancer and other smoking-related diseases!
As far as cutting down nicotine, that is another myth that anti-nicotine people want you to believe - that all smokers smoke for the same reason and they should be able to quit the same way.
There is a reason that 93% of smoking cessation products fail - they only address one aspect of smoking, mild nicotine dependence.
People smoke for many different reasons:
You obviously have more of the hand/mouth addiction and not the nicotine addiction - as do I. I also use vaping (as I did smoking) as a stress reliever and a way to help me concentrate. My husband, on the other hand, needs the nicotine and other MAOIs found in tobacco. He not only uses a higher strength nicotine, he needs to use snus for the other alkaloins/MAOIs.
So, you are correct in that everyone is different.
A few years ago, the anti-tobacco factions realized that they really couldn't "help" smokers. No matter what they did, they couldn't get the numbers of smokers down. So, instead they turned to demonizing the SMOKER. Making them pariahs - just as bad as h-eroin addicts. Not worthy of sympathy, only of scorn and isolation away from the rest of the population. No love lost for the smoker - they are just "addicts" and addicts are BAD.
The association of addiction being bad is relatively new, as well. Throughout most of modern history, addiction was simply seen as a passion, something a person couldn't live without. This addiction could be bad or good.
After the rise of h-eroin and other drugs in the late 20th century, the term "addiction" came to be associated with only the bad things associate with illegal drug use - prostitution, porn, robbery, murder, job loss, divorce, child neglect, etc.
"Addiction" no longer meant a passion, a need, a desire so strong that you can't live without it. It meant "burden on society" and "destructive behavior," regardless of the actual addiction. This is a relatively new concept.
There is no shame in being addicted to something - so long as it doesn't harm you or anyone else. Everyone has SOMETHING that makes them relax, reduces stress, makes them feel better, able to concentrate, etc. They are probably addicted to that thing, too. If you take it away, they would feel much of the same phycological withdrawl symptons described by drug addicts. But being a drug addict isn't always bad, either. Think about people on anti-depressants. Those drugs help them function and make them feel better (hopefully) and removing the drug would cause misery. Would anyone suggest taking those drugs away or making those people feel ashamed for their need? So, drugs aren't inherently bad - it's just the ATTITUDE about certain drugs.
Think about this, too - nicotine would probably be considered a miracle drug, if it hadn't first been associated with smoking and then demonized. Over 20% of the U.S. population (probably more if you include smokeless tobacco users) find the relief of nicotine so beneficial, that it overrides the fear of cancer and other smoking-related diseases!
As far as cutting down nicotine, that is another myth that anti-nicotine people want you to believe - that all smokers smoke for the same reason and they should be able to quit the same way.
There is a reason that 93% of smoking cessation products fail - they only address one aspect of smoking, mild nicotine dependence.
People smoke for many different reasons:
- They have a mild addiction to nicotine
- They have a strong dependence upon nicotine to function cognitively
- They have a strong dependence upon nicotine to reduce stress
- They have a strong dependence upon nicotine to counter depression
- They have the hand-to-mouth habit
- They need the "time out" to reduce stress or deliberate
- They need to keep their hands busy
- They need the oral satisfaction to avoid overeating
- They are dependent upon the other tobacco alkaloids or MAOIs
- Two or more of the above
- Other reasons we may not even know about yet
You obviously have more of the hand/mouth addiction and not the nicotine addiction - as do I. I also use vaping (as I did smoking) as a stress reliever and a way to help me concentrate. My husband, on the other hand, needs the nicotine and other MAOIs found in tobacco. He not only uses a higher strength nicotine, he needs to use snus for the other alkaloins/MAOIs.
So, you are correct in that everyone is different.
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Kristin, that is by far the best breakdown I have seen.
I fall in there with 3 of those scenarios applying to me. Vaping is the ONLY method that keeps me away from cigarettes because it's also the only method that addresses more than one scenario.
Why can't the "experts" see it that way?
I fall in there with 3 of those scenarios applying to me. Vaping is the ONLY method that keeps me away from cigarettes because it's also the only method that addresses more than one scenario.
Why can't the "experts" see it that way?
Sorry but there is no way I'm sitting here and reading that entire first post......
Which is exactly why so many people remain ignorant of the facts. And based on your post in the New York thread, you have a lot to learn about this and e-cigs and could benefit from some reading.Sorry but there is no way I'm sitting here and reading that entire first post......
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Kristin,
Thank you for the break-down. People have asked me over and over if I regret starting smoking, because I did so on purpose to save my mental health when I had no other resources.
No. Not for one second. Not even a little tiny bit. I do not regret smoking. I do not regret saving my life with tobacco. And I do not regret switching to vaping.
I posted about my story here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ory-rare-account-someone-who-chose-smoke.html
People don't want to hear that. They don't want to admit that for some of us, nicotine and/or MAOI's and/or the habitual side of things HELP us.
What's really funny is that the same people who tell me nicotine is evil are gung-ho to put me on other highly-addictive drugs that happen to have the FDA seal of approval. Drugs that would turn me into a zombie, give me ticks, possibly diabetes, strain my heart, destroy my white blood cells, etc etc etc...
Nicotine works better and more consistently than most of those drugs, and when removed from tobacco, has almost no side effects. It's also cheap, and safe in proper dilution.
The FDA is just another drug dealer, and they don't want you buying anyone's drugs but theirs. They deal nicotine too, but you can only have it if you buy it from THEIR dealers. Unfortunately for them, their dealers weren't bright enough to think of vaping.
Nicotine helps me. It quiets whatever remaining anxiety or perceptual wackiness I have as a result of PTSD. Nicotine, now, is a maintenance drug for me.
But when the FDA's drug dealers turned me away because I didn't have enough money, nicotine is what kept me going through the hardest, darkest period of my life.
I understood the risks when I went into it. I knew I would become an addict.
So what if I am an addict?
I'm alive.
And I enjoy nicotine. I enjoy vaping. I enjoy being an addict.
And I'm going to enjoy being addict, with my perfect pink lungs and my good strong heart, until i'm 90 years old.
Thank you for the break-down. People have asked me over and over if I regret starting smoking, because I did so on purpose to save my mental health when I had no other resources.
No. Not for one second. Not even a little tiny bit. I do not regret smoking. I do not regret saving my life with tobacco. And I do not regret switching to vaping.
I posted about my story here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ory-rare-account-someone-who-chose-smoke.html
People don't want to hear that. They don't want to admit that for some of us, nicotine and/or MAOI's and/or the habitual side of things HELP us.
What's really funny is that the same people who tell me nicotine is evil are gung-ho to put me on other highly-addictive drugs that happen to have the FDA seal of approval. Drugs that would turn me into a zombie, give me ticks, possibly diabetes, strain my heart, destroy my white blood cells, etc etc etc...
Nicotine works better and more consistently than most of those drugs, and when removed from tobacco, has almost no side effects. It's also cheap, and safe in proper dilution.
The FDA is just another drug dealer, and they don't want you buying anyone's drugs but theirs. They deal nicotine too, but you can only have it if you buy it from THEIR dealers. Unfortunately for them, their dealers weren't bright enough to think of vaping.
Nicotine helps me. It quiets whatever remaining anxiety or perceptual wackiness I have as a result of PTSD. Nicotine, now, is a maintenance drug for me.
But when the FDA's drug dealers turned me away because I didn't have enough money, nicotine is what kept me going through the hardest, darkest period of my life.
I understood the risks when I went into it. I knew I would become an addict.
So what if I am an addict?
I'm alive.
And I enjoy nicotine. I enjoy vaping. I enjoy being an addict.
And I'm going to enjoy being addict, with my perfect pink lungs and my good strong heart, until i'm 90 years old.
Thanks for sharing your story, too!
What is sad is that you felt smoking was your only option, when there are so many other smokeless tobacco products that supply nicotine and MAOIs without the danger.
The anti-tobacco groups (which USED to be anti-SMOKING groups) have smokers fooled into thinking smokeless alternatives are just as bad as smoking, so many smokers don't make the switch. It's the same tactic they are trying with e-cigarettes.
The main reason most smokers won't switch to an oral tobacco is because of the risk of mouth cancer.
What they don't know is that smoking has twice the risk of mouth cancer than smokeless tobacco! And when the antis say that the risk of mouth cancer from smokeless tobacco is twice that of not using it, what they don't tell you is that the incedence of mouth cancer is so low that oral tobacco only raises your risk to 1-2% chance. That means there is a 98-99% chance you WON'T get mouth cancer!
They twisted and exaggerated the facts to keep smokers from switching.
And now, oral tobacco is even available in a lozenge - nearly identical to Nicorette - except it still contains an effective amount of nicotine and MAOIs. So there is no leaf and no spitting, which should appeal to women.
What is sad is that you felt smoking was your only option, when there are so many other smokeless tobacco products that supply nicotine and MAOIs without the danger.
The anti-tobacco groups (which USED to be anti-SMOKING groups) have smokers fooled into thinking smokeless alternatives are just as bad as smoking, so many smokers don't make the switch. It's the same tactic they are trying with e-cigarettes.
The main reason most smokers won't switch to an oral tobacco is because of the risk of mouth cancer.
What they don't know is that smoking has twice the risk of mouth cancer than smokeless tobacco! And when the antis say that the risk of mouth cancer from smokeless tobacco is twice that of not using it, what they don't tell you is that the incedence of mouth cancer is so low that oral tobacco only raises your risk to 1-2% chance. That means there is a 98-99% chance you WON'T get mouth cancer!
They twisted and exaggerated the facts to keep smokers from switching.
And now, oral tobacco is even available in a lozenge - nearly identical to Nicorette - except it still contains an effective amount of nicotine and MAOIs. So there is no leaf and no spitting, which should appeal to women.
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I honestly didn't know there was such a thing as smokeless tobacco (apart from chew, but BLEH). But even if I had, I wouldn't have been able to afford it anyway. That's why I had to switch to rolling.
But honestly? I'm glad that my attempts to get help from Big Pharma didn't work, now that I know how it all "turned out."
I'd rather be addicted to nicotine than whatever horrible drugs they would have pumped me full of. I've been to funerals of people who have died from those drugs. Sometimes kids. Because the FDA lets doctors get away with off-label prescribing and slack testing.
I'll take relatively safe nicotine over that crap any day of the week.
But honestly? I'm glad that my attempts to get help from Big Pharma didn't work, now that I know how it all "turned out."
I'd rather be addicted to nicotine than whatever horrible drugs they would have pumped me full of. I've been to funerals of people who have died from those drugs. Sometimes kids. Because the FDA lets doctors get away with off-label prescribing and slack testing.
I'll take relatively safe nicotine over that crap any day of the week.
Great post, Kristin. (No, it was not at all tl;dr - good lord, people, if you're invested in this, the least you can do is read a post!)
I touched on the same idea in the "scam" thread - I am also addicted to caffeine, and though I do occasionally think about cutting that addiction (mostly when coffee prices go up yet again) it would never in a million years occur to me to do so in order to avoid some social stigma against my addiction.
We need to advocate to separate the hyperbole from the facts of nicotine use.
I touched on the same idea in the "scam" thread - I am also addicted to caffeine, and though I do occasionally think about cutting that addiction (mostly when coffee prices go up yet again) it would never in a million years occur to me to do so in order to avoid some social stigma against my addiction.
We need to advocate to separate the hyperbole from the facts of nicotine use.
[/LIST]I'd love to turn that into some kind of poll.
I'd love to find a study that actually took these factors into consideration!
It seems that the discovery that nicotine has addictive properties was considered the golden bullet and they dismissed any other factors since then when developing smoking cessation treatments.
Consequently, nicotine has become so demonized and any kind of drug addiction so frowned upon that e-cigarettes don't seem any kind of improvement to some opponents.
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Thanks, Kristin. It was nice to hear someone divorce nicotine from cigarettes and also point out that addictions aren't inherently bad.
I recently met a friend at a farmer's market who, like me had found sobriety and he asked me about my PV. He made a statement that implied he wasn't seeing the benefit since I had been using it since we'd met back in May. I disclosed the health benefits and pointed to smoke as the culprit. He disregarded this information and said, "yeah, but you're still addicted."
I was taken aback because well...as mentioned above, many are addicted to caffeine. I am. Whatever it is that solders together "addiction" and "bad" in people's minds is alien to me. It matters a great deal what the addiction is TO.
I don't want to restate too much of what has already been said about beneficial effects of nicotine intake with a non-carcinogenic delivery method, etc. I do want to touch quickly on Kristin's point about the effects of an addiction on someone's life.
It doesn't take much to see that an addiction to nicotine with a PV or smokeless delivery is nothing like a ...... or ....... habit. Or alcoholic drinking. I'd never steal from my mother to get nic juice. If I was active, I very well might steal from someone close to me to get a handle of vodka. Point here is that while cigarettes are very harmful to health, you generally don't see a person's life fall apart like you do with other addictions. Cigarettes certainly didn't bring me to my knees the way booze did. So, that's one reason why people don't find themselves as motivated to quit smoking. The consequences to oneself and others just aren't the same. And definitely not as quick to come.
Physically, as a smoker I knew that the consequences were likely to come much later in life. A year of life today was worth far more to me than a year of life in the distant future. It's simple, people discount future health they way they discount money. Would you rather have 100 bucks today or 110 in a year? Another reason people are less motivated to quit smoking.
For the two reasons above, it's not quite fair to say that millions suffer and/or die to get their nic fix (from cigarettes) in the same way that people pay a price to get other fixes.
I guess what I'm saying is: I'm addicted to nicotine. Is that bad? Not so much, I vape rather than smoke. Is nicotine addiction like an addiction to ......? not so much, in the ways described above. Oh, and (if you've seen that autotuned news vid) "it's the smooooke."
I recently met a friend at a farmer's market who, like me had found sobriety and he asked me about my PV. He made a statement that implied he wasn't seeing the benefit since I had been using it since we'd met back in May. I disclosed the health benefits and pointed to smoke as the culprit. He disregarded this information and said, "yeah, but you're still addicted."
I was taken aback because well...as mentioned above, many are addicted to caffeine. I am. Whatever it is that solders together "addiction" and "bad" in people's minds is alien to me. It matters a great deal what the addiction is TO.
I don't want to restate too much of what has already been said about beneficial effects of nicotine intake with a non-carcinogenic delivery method, etc. I do want to touch quickly on Kristin's point about the effects of an addiction on someone's life.
It doesn't take much to see that an addiction to nicotine with a PV or smokeless delivery is nothing like a ...... or ....... habit. Or alcoholic drinking. I'd never steal from my mother to get nic juice. If I was active, I very well might steal from someone close to me to get a handle of vodka. Point here is that while cigarettes are very harmful to health, you generally don't see a person's life fall apart like you do with other addictions. Cigarettes certainly didn't bring me to my knees the way booze did. So, that's one reason why people don't find themselves as motivated to quit smoking. The consequences to oneself and others just aren't the same. And definitely not as quick to come.
Physically, as a smoker I knew that the consequences were likely to come much later in life. A year of life today was worth far more to me than a year of life in the distant future. It's simple, people discount future health they way they discount money. Would you rather have 100 bucks today or 110 in a year? Another reason people are less motivated to quit smoking.
For the two reasons above, it's not quite fair to say that millions suffer and/or die to get their nic fix (from cigarettes) in the same way that people pay a price to get other fixes.
I guess what I'm saying is: I'm addicted to nicotine. Is that bad? Not so much, I vape rather than smoke. Is nicotine addiction like an addiction to ......? not so much, in the ways described above. Oh, and (if you've seen that autotuned news vid) "it's the smooooke."
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Nice input, Dan.
Do you mean the video with the senator holding up the lettuce? I wish we could get that guy on our side!
I'm just so tired of hearing, "But you're still addicted."
What's the appropriate response?
Well, no more apologizing. Simply ask, "Yeah, so?"
Watch their faces go blank for an answer. They won't have one.
That's what I do now, too.
So what if I am addicted? Almost everyone in Western society is addicted to sugar. Many are addicted to caffeine.
Here's the fact: we are ALL junkies. Everyone is addicted to something. Everyone.
Whether it's sugar, nicotine, her-o-in, exercise, nail-biting, sex, gambling, alcohol, or pharmaceutical drugs, we are all junkies.
My fix is just more stigmatized than a Starbucks junkie, or someone who pops a couple Xanax every few hours.
And the funny thing?
If I continue to vape rather than smoke, I'll live longer than either of them.
So what if I am addicted? Almost everyone in Western society is addicted to sugar. Many are addicted to caffeine.
Here's the fact: we are ALL junkies. Everyone is addicted to something. Everyone.
Whether it's sugar, nicotine, her-o-in, exercise, nail-biting, sex, gambling, alcohol, or pharmaceutical drugs, we are all junkies.
My fix is just more stigmatized than a Starbucks junkie, or someone who pops a couple Xanax every few hours.
And the funny thing?
If I continue to vape rather than smoke, I'll live longer than either of them.
I quit Crack because everyone around me turned into an ....... overnight. Crack will do that to you. It was way easier to stop then I deserved. I never had to rob or sell my stuff or any of that madness. In the early 80's I was in on the ground floor.
I am on a first name basis with addiction. I was raised by a high functioning alcoholic (related illness's killed him at 64) who suffered from an above average intelligence. I say suffered because its much harder to see what you have become when you are smart enough to truly understand what you could have been.
I understand and embrace my own addictive personality. I realize that others may have a problem with the fact that I do not as a rule conform to the expectations of others in regards to what I choose to consume. When the biggest problem with an action is its inherent illegality I say the law should change because I am not going to.
Hell for years tobacco was the only legal vice I had. I started smoking in "76" back then it was super cool. Well I guess. For the last 5 years I have been filled with loathing for the nastily little things. But I couldn't put them down. I tried. 5 days here maybe a full week but nah.
Made it 4 days in 05 when I had a heart attack at 40. Yeah, heart attack didn't slow down my smoking, are you kidding after the stents I was a nervous wreck and what are you supposed to do when your nervous??
I hated that I couldn't quit. and then about 90 days ago I stopped in a place that advertised e-cigs. Dude at the counter lemme try his and I bought one. I had 3 cgs in my pack at the time and they're still there.
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