Nicotine not addictive? Yeah right!

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AndriaD

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I'd like to see a study on whether tobacco control advocates would be addicted to controlling/regulating vaping gear if there was zero nicotine involved.

I hypothesize that they would and that nicotine is not the main issue for them.

Nah... it scorches their shorts that we've found this non-lethal way to enjoy ourselves that feels and looks somewhat like smoking. They've somehow gotten the idea that inhaling anything recreationally is a terrible sin against humanity, and against their personal selves. Or hell... that anyone anywhere is doing anything at all that's pleasurable -- it must be EVIL! Stupid puritans. They all need to be committed to the nearest inpatient mental healthcare facility, so they stop bothering the rest of us.

Andria
 

LMS62

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Irrefutably here are the facts:

You can get much more nicotine vaping.

Nicotine is addictive.

Few people would bother to vape 0 nic so there would be no controversy with anyone.
The average vaper normally does not get as much nic from vaping as they do from cigarettes. Of course, there will always be exceptions such as using incredibly high nic levels in the e-juice, or very heavy dripping.
 

Bernard Marx

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I don't buy it.

Personally I smoked 5-10 cigarettes a day for the past five years.

Now that I am vaping 12mg at 1ml a day I'm getting much more nicotine. I like it.

I would have smoked more if it wasn't so hard on me.

You see with smoking you have to limit your inhaling to what you can tolerate. As you get older this is a real factor.

A cigarette would be about 5 very light throat to lung inhales.
 
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chargingcharlie

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I don't buy it.

Personally I smoked 5-10 cigarettes a day for the past five years.

Now that I am vaping 12mg at 1ml a day I'm getting much more nicotine. I like it.

I would have smoked more if it wasn't so hard on me.

You see with smoking you have to limit your inhaling to what you can tolerate. As you get older this is a real factor.

A cigarette would be about 5 very light throat to lung inhales.

I don't know the hard numbers, but a large majority of the nicotine you vape gets blown right out in the vapor just like it gets blown out in the exhale when you smoke. From what I've read, 40%-60% of the nicotine goes unabsorbed by the vaper. Another large difference is that smoke particles are far smaller than vapor particles, so they travel deeper into your lungs, which gets the nicotine into your bloodstream faster. Other chemicals is cigarettes also help aid the absorption of nicotine into the bloodstream.


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chargingcharlie

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Personally I smoked 5-10 cigarettes a day for the past five years.

Now that I am vaping 12mg at 1ml a day I'm getting much more nicotine. I like it.

5-10 regular cigarettes = 6mg-12mg of nicotine (1.2mg/cigarette) so you are literally inhaling the same exact amount of nicotine if you are vaping 1ml of 12mg per day. ;)



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LMS62

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I don't buy it.

Personally I smoked 5-10 cigarettes a day for the past five years.

Now that I am vaping 12mg at 1ml a day I'm getting much more nicotine. I like it.

I would have smoked more if it wasn't so hard on me.

You see with smoking you have to limit your inhaling to what you can tolerate. As you get older this is a real factor.

A cigarette would be about 5 very light throat to lung inhales.
Whether you "buy it" or not, there have been comprehensive studies done (the latest was in 2013) that indicate vaping only provides between 10% and 50% of the nicotine received by smoking cigarettes. Not to mention the absorption rate is different also because smoke particles are much smaller than vaping particles, and as a result, are absorbed more efficiently into the lungs.

You don't have to believe me, the latest study from 2013 is posted here on ECF, or you can google it.
 
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wizardofozone

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Hi Guys

It often comes up in replies to posts that nicotine is not addictive, or that there are studies that suggest that it isn't. I find that rather strange, to me it has DENIAL written all over it. I know there are substances other than nicotine that may also be addictive which explains why it is so difficult to quit smoking. However, I am still convinced nicotine is the main culprit. If nicotine is not addictive surely it must be possible to stop vaping cold turkey? How many of you would be able to do that? I know I couldn't. I know smoking addiction is a complex thing but I can't imagine having to go without my nic. Quitting vaping is definitely not on my radar at the moment, and probably not ever.

How do you feel about this?

Cheers.

Chris

Chris, I'm a newbie and I couldn't agree with you more ... Perhaps a doctor whom I learned to trust perhaps a bit too much preached to me about smoking and Nicotine with news that he claimed was not only his own opinion but was agreeble with his own doctor colleagues .... I state the following comment I received from him back in 2003 ,before even the first cigalike was on the scene locally ... I'm stating only what he told me and am open to be told he is wrong but he gave me hope and I'm keeping it ! :laugh:

He commented to me that he and other doctors found that the biggest and only problem with Nicotine other than their positive belief that it indeed is an addictive drug
was that in many but not all ,it raises the blood pressure,and again, they absolutely stand firm that it's a true addictive drug .... BUT, he preached with conviction ... no doctor would mind if legal methods such as the auto pens that diabetics use could be filled instead with Nicotine thus eliminating the true problem with smoking, that is .. the way smokers had up until recently, only one method for nicotine delivery, the burning of paper and tobacco. He said that nicotine in and of itself was NEVER the cause of Cancer, chronic cough, teeth problems nor hair and body odor, asthma like breathing difficultys,sinus problems, etc ... it has always been the 'carrier' we have been forced to use or to chew or snort ..to get the less harmful Nicotine.

To me the higher end Vaporizers that let one smoke as much nicotine as desired has indeed, stopped even the danger or need to quit because we have now a method that utterly defeats the real problem of the centuries old 'tobacco carrier ' problem while still bowing to the other parts of the habit in general, ie: the pressing of a button, to replace a bic lighter. The stopping of movement or task breaks to take a few vapes .... things that gum or patches do not provide , A thing to hold like the tactile peace of drawing a cig from a pack, and on and on.... I'm clinging to that hopeful news till the Lord returns !

It's simply obvious to me however, that just like the current resistance by the non addicted to nicotine, ... non smokers or non vapers won't for example, even tolerate the fact that a simple vapor sans any tobacco byproduct at all is coming from our lungs.

They will eventually find medical 'proof' that my Doctor was wrong, and nicotine is guilty of everything from a miscarriage to passing too much wind . These self righteous will continue however to shout out their accusations to smokers while all of their heads are obscured by the billows of smoke coming from their carcinagenic backyard grills as they wait for a tasty and grease filled burger to go with their 6th glass of alcohol ...
 
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Bernard Marx

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Irrefutably here are the facts:

You can get much more nicotine vaping.

Nicotine is addictive.

Few people would bother to vape 0 nic so there would be no controversy with anyone.



You can't get more nicotine from vaping.

Nicotine is not addictive.

Most people would still vape without nicotine


Fortunately thanks to my being well-indoctrinated in DOUBLETHINK I have no trouble with this.
 

beckdg

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You can't get more nicotine from vaping.

Nicotine is not addictive.

Most people would still vape without nicotine


Fortunately thanks to my being well-indoctrinated in DOUBLETHINK I have no trouble with this.

You can get more nic from vaping. It's just not likely.

Nicotine may or may not be addictive. Though one study suggests it's not addictive on its own. And thousands of members on this site have experienced how much easier it is to ween down or put down the nic once you're off the tobacco. It's remarkable.

Plenty of people have weaned down to 0 nic. I doubt Most people would only vape if 0 nic was the only option. Seems getting to 0 nic can be a long process for some. Many have dropped levels too fast and had to up their nic again.

But keep in mind these are all ex tobacco users who are/were addicts. We highly suspect that if they'd only ever vaped (even with nicotine) they'd never been addicted in the first place.

Sent from my device.
 

skoony

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I'd like to see a study on whether tobacco control advocates would be addicted to controlling/regulating vaping gear if there was zero nicotine involved.

I hypothesize that they would and that nicotine is not the main issue for them.

i have been thinking about the same thing.
my reasoning is the FDA through the deeming regs using the derivative of tobacco wording
gives them a hole big enough to pass an aircraft carrier through. a cigarette is a derivative
of tobacco. our juices and gear are a derivative of a cigarette which is made from tobacco
ergo, a another derivative of tobacco as it mimics smoking cigarettes. when you get to this
point the nicotine becomes a moot argument. they wont drop that argument because its
good for more fuel on the fire. at any rate using the derivative wording it won;t matter if
the juice is 0 nic or not,it will be deemed a derivative of tobacco.
:2c:
regards
mike
 

Alien Traveler

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You can get more nic from vaping. It's just not likely.

You can, its easy. It is likely. See papers of Dr. Farsalinos.

Nicotine may or may not be addictive. Though one study suggests it's not addictive on its own. And thousands of members on this site have experienced how much easier it is to ween down or put down the nic once you're off the tobacco. It's remarkable.

And thousands are afraid to leave their houses without spares to spares (in case they are. Are they not addicted?
 

AndriaD

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And thousands are afraid to leave their houses without spares to spares (in case they are. Are they not addicted?

They are FORMER SMOKERS. Why is that so hard to understand??? THEIR BRAINS ARE DIFFERENT FROM NEVER-SMOKERS.

Andria
 
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WattWick

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You can't get more nicotine from vaping.

Nicotine is not addictive.

Most people would still vape without nicotine


Fortunately thanks to my being well-indoctrinated in DOUBLETHINK I have no trouble with this.

There is a significant difference between doublethink and inquiring about other possibilities than what we are lead to believe. You can say it is the exact opposite of doublethink. If you read Andrias posts in this thread, you'll find one with links that may open your mind a little. If I kept thinking 'Yes, nicotine is just as addictive as ......' after reading her posts, I would be doublethinking.

Nothing personal. Just can't let people get away with abusing 'Nineteen Eight-Four'. :toast:
 

Jman8

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You can, its easy. It is likely. See papers of Dr. Farsalinos.



And thousands are afraid to leave their houses without spares to spares (in case they are. Are they not addicted?

I would say point on current tangent is that it is refutable.

I think a very important point, brought up in your question, and responded to with a question is:

Are people addicted to it (or things in general) and/or are substances addictive?

I asked in another thread (2 days ago) what substances wouldn't be addictive? As even I believe some substances are not inherently addictive, then that question is refutable by pointing out what those substances are. Yet, given the logic that says nicotine is inherently addictive, which is based on the idea that people do thus and so with regards to their use of nicotine, then I still am left to wonder if we could convince ourselves that arguably everything we use is addictive. May not be for you, but if it is for anyone, then it would follow that possibly all things are addictive. I mean, we know work/money can be addictive. We know food can be. I observe most people appear addicted to use of shelter. So, all the basics are (or can be). I think if we run down the list, we would find that all things can be. Even while some people, perhaps a majority, are clearly not addicted.

So, the addiction to nicotine becomes rather pointless to assert it in a way that says nicotine is addictive. Cause arguably all things are addictive. And I say arguably, because I believe that is refutable.

And because more people don't use (have addiction to) nicotine than do, then in general, it is easy to conclude it is not addictive (on the whole). Furthermore, in non users of nicotine, when they breathe in second hand smoke, wouldn't that be prime opportunity to gain an addiction if nicotine is inherently addictive? Wouldn't it be more likely that our society would secretly want second hand smoke around them as much as possible if nicotine were truly addictive? You know, cause they'd be inhaling it and after just a few breaths of this 'highly addictive substances' they could despise the smoke aspect of it, but because addiction generally signifies lack of control, they'd have no control over their desire to be around 2nd hand smoke. They'd crave it. They'd want people to smoke around them as much as possible to get their nicotine fix.

Oh, but wait, we don't live in that shared reality. People inhaling nicotine from 2nd hand smoke aren't telling us they crave that, even while nicotine is going into their bloodstream. So, hmmm, maybe it isn't inherently addictive.

Perhaps it is closer to reality that person has got to have a preference for it, find enjoyment with it, a desire to reinforce that enjoyment factor, and THAT serves as foundation for this concept of addiction that we still seem entirely unclear on even while we toss the concept around like we know exactly, precisely what we are talking about, yet can't readily respond to a question as simple as, "aren't all things inherently addictive?"
 

klynnn

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I have seen so many bad things that are now good for you that I take everything with a grain of salt anymore. Coconut oil, coffee, chocolate were all in there, now they are health foods. The only thing that seems constant is some corporation pushing their agenda for the almighty dollar or the gov trying to get their cut out of it. I truly believe that if the bottom line was high enough they'd be pushing the greenest of grasses.....oops they already are.
 

beckdg

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You can, its easy. It is likely. See papers of Dr. Farsalinos.



And thousands are afraid to leave their houses without spares to spares (in case they are. Are they not addicted?

Yet when interviewed his statements suggest otherwise.

When trying to beat an addiction, every second counts. Backups (nor vaping) didn't cause your nor my addictions.

Sent from my device.
 

DC2

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Plenty of people have weaned down to 0 nic..
Over the years I have seen many people on this forum accidentally forget to put nicotine in their DIY liquids without realizing it.
None of them (that I've seem posting about such a situation) ever found an issue with such a rapid change in nicotine intake to basically zero.

These experiences color my beliefs to a very high degree.
But I also realize that these experiences may not define the entire "Nicotine User World" either.

Many of these people just decided to stop using nicotine but keep vaping.
Some of them decided they may as well stop vaping.

And some of them decided to bring nicotine back into the equation, although usually in lesser amounts than they originally thought they needed.
 
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