Please, don't vape where you can't smoke

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Drozd

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Well, this is what happens when society is brainwashed into thinking smokers are the worst people in the world for enjoying nicotine.

I would actively move away from non-smokers when I smoked. Not because I was forced to, but because it's a simple gesture of kindness. They don't enjoy the smell, I don't enjoy them complaining.

And yet, I would have non-smokers walk up to me mid-cigarette (keep in mind I hadn't moved, and was the only one in that spot prior to them showing up) and tell me to put it out or move.

Luckily when I refuse in a stern voice people leave me alone considering I'm 6'5" and 240 lbs. In America at least, people seem to not mind getting pushed around for doing nothing wrong though. I'll never understand it.

Oh I agree...totally...
I was at an eatery with an outdoor patio recently and was vaping...this lady called the manager over to tell me to stop...I very calmly explained what I was doing and how there were no laws against it and ecplained and demonstrated my PV...and then told him I would stop and put it away if he also told her that the perfume she was drenched in was giving me a headache and I almost have to light a real cigarette to cover her stench so she would have to move too...lo and behold he told her...
(apparently she was a problem customer and liked to throw snit fits about everything....so he actually relished delivering my message)
 

Spills

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Hogwash? Well then I suggest you blow that smoke towards a newborn since "Hey there are no studies of secondhand smoke" Harmless it must be..And while your at it make sure to vap also in the same manner. Its soooo safe right? So get right on that and I stand corrected!:facepalm::facepalm: If there is even a small question of possible second hand problems to others then it should be an instant ban from bars etc, other peoples safety is more important then your comfort, sorry thanks :D Not trying to argue but since there are no definitive studies as you suggest let me ask you even if there was no coughing involved with smoking would you even smoke in the same room with a newborn? Hogwash or not its just common sense. Kids go out to eat and so do babies and to say something that has been around for what 5 or at most 10 yrs has nicotine and the like and is safe is an assumption. Until people are using these for 30 yrs you wont really ever know of the long term effects, so if there is the slightest chance that they could have a negative effect on others, then sorry you need to go outside. Like I said your comfort comes second to others safety period. If thats hogwash then oink oink :D
 
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LowThudd

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I am a GUY from L.A. not girl. lol
I vape in restaurants, if there are not alot of patrons, I don't even ask the waitress if it's OK. I was in Sacramento a few weeks ago, and I asked the Waitress if it was OK. She said fine as long as it doesn't make smoke. And I disagree, people need to be informed of this new thing. There is no logical reason not to vape in public, just uninformed paranoia. If the patrons in the restaurant knew it was not smoke do you think they would have a problem with it? Probably most would not. No smell, no ash, no smoke, no tar and no carcinegens. What's to worry about? Hiding from people to use your e-cig is just...not necessary. If someone is curious, explain it to them. Carry a supplier card with info on it(I do). Give them the card to take with them. Informing people is a much better idea than hiding it from them. If they still don't like it after informing them what it is, then it is a good idea to respect their wishes. Nuff said.
 
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DemonCowboy

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Hogwash? Well then I suggest you blow that smoke towards a newborn since "Hey there are no studies of secondhand smoke" Harmless it must be..And while your at it make sure to vap also in the same manner. Its soooo safe right? So get right on that and I stand corrected!:facepalm::facepalm: If there is even a small question of possible second hand problems to others then it should be an instant ban from bars etc, other peoples safety is more important then your comfort, sorry thanks :D Not trying to argue but since there are no definitive studies as you suggest let me ask you even if there was no coughing involved with smoking would you even smoke in the same room with a newborn? Hogwash or not its just common sense. Kids go out to eat and so do babies and to say something that has been around for what 5 or at most 10 yrs has nicotine and the like and is safe is an assumption. Until people are using these for 30 yrs you wont really ever know of the long term effects, so if there is the slightest chance that they could have a negative effect on others, then sorry you need to go outside. Like I said your comfort comes second to others safety period. If thats hogwash then oink oink :D

i'll say this is hogwash because my best friend's infant son is under my care a LOT and i don't go out side for him and i can guarantee it's a whole lot safer than my parents smoking indoors in the winter in michigan like chimneys that i could wake up and see clouds of smoke in the mornings.

and even w/ the 2nd hand smoke i'm still here and this is less dangerous than tobacco - so do the math!!!

i'm still here in spite of YEARS of 2nd hand TOBACCO smoke almost never getting sick as a kid vs PG, flavorings and perhaps a little nic.

oh yes the possibility of fewer chemicals in even an infant's body is SOOO tragic when more than half of us as kids had REAL 2nd hand smoke to deal w/ and are still here to be having this discussion.

you can't put every1 in a bubble - not even infants and kids - all that will do is make the race even weaker - duh!!

i bet u'r the type of person who would also get an alergy attack from sniffing a rose , or the type that wipes a public chair whether there's nething there or not aren't u? stop w/ the paranoia already and just live u'r life.
 

Rin

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Jul 27, 2010
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Hogwash? Well then I suggest you blow that smoke towards a newborn since "Hey there are no studies of secondhand smoke" Harmless it must be..And while your at it make sure to vap also in the same manner. Its soooo safe right? So get right on that and I stand corrected!:facepalm::facepalm:

There are studies of secondhand smoke actually. And no correlation between secondhand smoke and cancer was ever made. Do the research.

Spills said:
If there is even a small question of possible second hand problems to others then it should be an instant ban from bars etc, other peoples safety is more important then your comfort, sorry thanks :D Not trying to argue but since there are no definitive studies as you suggest let me ask you even if there was no coughing involved with smoking would you even smoke in the same room with a newborn? Hogwash or not its just common sense. Kids go out to eat and so do babies and to say something that has been around for what 5 or at most 10 yrs has nicotine and the like and is safe is an assumption.

The only questionable substance involved with regards to PVs is Propylene Glycol (or Vegetable Glycol). There have been multiple studies regarding this ingredient, and all have shown no correlation to any detrimental effects to humans. Your nicotine argument is likewise flawed. Besides it being addictive, multiple recent studies have shown health improvements due to nicotine consumption like blood pressure reduction.

Spills said:
Until people are using these for 30 yrs you wont really ever know of the long term effects, so if there is the slightest chance that they could have a negative effect on others, then sorry you need to go outside. Like I said your comfort comes second to others safety period. If thats hogwash then oink oink :D

Oink oink. You're taking the same stance as the FDA. Ban it until we're sure it's safe. If you use PVs, then you should know just like the thousands of members of ECF that the health benefits are obvious and nearly immediate.

You talk of "slightest chances," yet you do not even bother to state that nearly every commonly combustible material used frequently in the world today is amazingly hazardous to human health. Stand behind your car. Congratulations, you've done more damage than a PV could possibly due in that time span. Fire up your fireplace. Congratulations, you're killing your family. Do you even realize what chemicals are present in your central A/C system in your home?
 

HeatherC

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What really needs to happen (sorry small e-cig companies) is Walmart needs to start carrying these and making a ton of money off of them. Then there's no chance they'll ever be banned because well, it's Walmart.

Yep Becuz Walmart is taking over the world LOL (Being facetious But I do agree with you ;) )
 

HeatherC

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Hogwash? Well then I suggest you blow that smoke towards a newborn since "Hey there are no studies of secondhand smoke" Harmless it must be..And while your at it make sure to vap also in the same manner. Its soooo safe right? So get right on that and I stand corrected!:facepalm::facepalm: If there is even a small question of possible second hand problems to others then it should be an instant ban from bars etc, other peoples safety is more important then your comfort, sorry thanks :D Not trying to argue but since there are no definitive studies as you suggest let me ask you even if there was no coughing involved with smoking would you even smoke in the same room with a newborn? Hogwash or not its just common sense. Kids go out to eat and so do babies and to say something that has been around for what 5 or at most 10 yrs has nicotine and the like and is safe is an assumption. Until people are using these for 30 yrs you wont really ever know of the long term effects, so if there is the slightest chance that they could have a negative effect on others, then sorry you need to go outside. Like I said your comfort comes second to others safety period. If thats hogwash then oink oink :D

MY son can neither smell nor taste what is in the air when my hubby and I are vaping He could do both when we were smoking. Are you really going to tell me that if he can't taste or smell it he's getting the SAME thing as if I was smoking....or anything at all for that matter...or maybe you're saying he's lying to me? I don't know I'm confused....I know there are gases u can't smell or taste and can kill you...but never have heard anything to say that vapor is one of those gases. Also the PG is used in shampoo toothpaste all kinds of food products deodorant it is an additive in injectable diazepam it's used in albuterol inhalers (under a different name tho but its the same thing) Its also used in those fog machines that are used to make fog on stage I also saw that PG is used in smoke machines used to simulate fire training scenarios...Hmmm so all these people are unsafe too...and you better throw out your toothpaste.....YEP hogwash do your research a little better...check the CASAAs sight to find more info
 

Drozd

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Hogwash? Well then I suggest you blow that smoke towards a newborn since "Hey there are no studies of secondhand smoke" Harmless it must be..And while your at it make sure to vap also in the same manner. Its soooo safe right? So get right on that and I stand corrected!:facepalm::facepalm: If there is even a small question of possible second hand problems to others then it should be an instant ban from bars etc, other peoples safety is more important then your comfort, sorry thanks :D Not trying to argue but since there are no definitive studies as you suggest let me ask you even if there was no coughing involved with smoking would you even smoke in the same room with a newborn? Hogwash or not its just common sense. Kids go out to eat and so do babies and to say something that has been around for what 5 or at most 10 yrs has nicotine and the like and is safe is an assumption. Until people are using these for 30 yrs you wont really ever know of the long term effects, so if there is the slightest chance that they could have a negative effect on others, then sorry you need to go outside. Like I said your comfort comes second to others safety period. If thats hogwash then oink oink :D

30 years huh..that the magic number?...
so all those studies from the 1940s where they were using PG in inhalers and breathing treatments...where they flooded the long term children's ward of some hospitals with PG ...and found that it worked as a bactricide and was helpful would count huh...because that study is well over 60 years old...or the same studies where they flooded the air up to the point of saturation with no ill effects..

or the fact that nicotine has been being studied and is being examined for the treatment of alzheimer's, parkinsons, crohns, ulcerative colitis...guss we can throw all that out...

can throw out the study by NASA too that they were studying PG as an air additive for air aboard the Space station and the absence of long term effects...

also the eissenberg study showing that PVs arent delivering much nicotine at all either...so the expelled air contains even less...

or the OSHA air quality study on cigarette smoke that ...
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]"Field studies of environmental tobacco smoke indicate that under normal conditions, the components in tobacco smoke are diluted below existing Permissible Exposure Levels (PELS.) as referenced in the Air Contaminant Standard (29 CFR 1910.1000)...It would be very rare to find a workplace with so much smoking that any individual PEL would be exceeded."[/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=-1]-Letter From Greg Watchman, Acting ...'t Sec'y, OSHA, To Leroy J Pletten, PHD, July 8, 1997[/SIZE]

Independent health researchers have done the chemistry and the math to prove how very very rare that would be.

In 1999, comments were solicited by the government from an independent Public and Health Policy Research group, Littlewood & Fennel of Austin, Tx, on the subject of secondhand smoke.
Using EPA figures on the emissions per cigarette of everything measurable in secondhand smoke, they compared them to OSHA's PELs.
The following excerpt and chart are directly from their report and their Washington testimony:
CALCULATING THE NON-EXISTENT RISKS OF ETS
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]"We have taken the substances for which measurements have actually been obtained--very few, of course, because it's difficult to even find these chemicals in diffuse and diluted ETS.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]"We posit a sealed, unventilated enclosure that is 20 feet square with a 9 foot ceiling clearance.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]"Taking the figures for ETS yields per cigarette directly from the EPA, we calculated the number of cigarettes that would be required to reach the lowest published "danger" threshold for each of these substances. The results are actually quite amusing. In fact, it is difficult to imagine a situation where these threshold limits could be realized.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]"Our chart (Table 1) illustrates each of these substances, but let me report some notable examples.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]"For Benzo[a]pyrene, 222,000 cigarettes would be required to reach the lowest published "danger" threshold.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]"For Acetone, 118,000 cigarettes would be required.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]"Toluene would require 50,000 packs of simultaneously smoldering cigarettes.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]"At the lower end of the scale-- in the case of Acetaldehyde or Hydrazine, more than 14,000 smokers would need to light up simultaneously in our little room to reach the threshold at which they might begin to pose a danger.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]"For Hydroquinone, "only" 1250 cigarettes are required. Perhaps we could post a notice limiting this 20-foot square room to 300 rather tightly-packed people smoking no more than 62 packs per hour?[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]"Of course the moment we introduce real world factors to the room -- a door, an open window or two, or a healthy level of mechanical air exchange (remember, the room we've been talking about is sealed) achieving these levels becomes even more implausible.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]"It becomes increasingly clear to us that ETS is a political, rather than scientific, scapegoat."[/SIZE][/FONT]

and that's including the concept of side stream smoke... (the part where the smoker isn't inhaling but the ciggarette is still burning)...something that you don't have with a PV...

so yeah you're totally full of misinformation and hogwash... glad you admit it by starting to oink..seriously, you do a diservice to PV users...put it down...grab your combustible cigarettes and follow and parrot everything the FDA tells you
 
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If I vape at all in a public place where smoking isn't allowed, I do it very discreetly. I agree that too many people who are uninformed would think it looks like smoking. I do have to say that stealth-vaping at Home Depot takes all the stress out of picking out tile, though ;-)

I agree, I stealth vape where you aren't allowed to smoke and no one ever notices. If you're obnoxious about it it's just going to give vaping a bad name.
 

Drozd

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Wow that was an interesting study Drozd!

lol aint it though...that's why ASH dropped it's lawsuit against OSHA...because if OSHA would have acted on enviromental tobacco smoke by going by real life studies and figures it'd been too weak for ASH's liking...

I did forget the link for the actual table though: NTPETSChart

and by the way that whole website is an interesting read on the subject of second hand smoke:
The Case Against Smoking Bans - OSHA and check out the sidebar items like: http://www.nycclash.com/CaseAgainstBans/RestaurantAir.html#Restaurants

that contain these wonderful tidbits
THE COTININE FACTOR
To begin with, by far the most plentiful-- and measurable-- part of a cigarette (either first or secondhand) is simply: the nicotine. The body then metabolizes nicotine into cotinine. Smoking, however, isn't the only source of cotinine. The body also metabolizes foods into cotinine--tomatoes, potatoes, eggplant, and various teas. In fact, another study showed that eating a normal (4.9 oz) portion of mashed potatoes produced the same amount of cotinine as 4 hours spent having drinks in a smoky bar. And similarly, a rather long lunch with a smoking friend can be easily equaled by a third of an ounce of eggplant.
[SIZE=-1]-"Relevance Of Nicotine Content Of Common Vegetables To The Identification Of Passive Tobacco Smokers," Domino Et Al, Med. Sci. Res, 1993; 21, 571-2; Similarly, New England Jnl Med, Aug, 1993[/SIZE]

second hand smoke is a myth and political trickery
 

radicaljd

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I agree, I stealth vape where you aren't allowed to smoke and no one ever notices. If you're obnoxious about it it's just going to give vaping a bad name.

Vaping openly in a public place doesn't mean you are being "obnoxious" about it. I never see any signs that sal, "No vaping." Thus, unless I am directed otherwise, why shouldn't I vape in public?
 

HeatherC

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lol aint it though...that's why ASH dropped it's lawsuit against OSHA...because if OSHA would have acted on enviromental tobacco smoke by going by real life studies and figures it'd been too weak for ASH's liking...

I did forget the link for the actual table though: NTPETSChart

and by the way that whole website is an interesting read on the subject of second hand smoke:
The Case Against Smoking Bans - OSHA and check out the sidebar items like: The Case Against Smoking Bans - Restaurant Air

that contain these wonderful tidbits


second hand smoke is a myth and political trickery
WOW we need to stop eating...ALL foods!!! THEY MAY POSE A TOXIC RISK! :laugh:
 

Drozd

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Vaping openly in a public place doesn't mean you are being "obnoxious" about it. I never see any signs that sal, "No vaping." Thus, unless I am directed otherwise, why shouldn't I vape in public?

There are some that are obnoxious about it to be fair though...
like there was this video of a reviewer that stopped for gas..at a full service pump...and got out of his car vaping and blowing the vapor in the attendants face to see if he got a reaction..

or stories of people that arent on here that when approached by management and asked to quit.....didn't explain or educate...just simply wnt off their hinges causing a loud commotion that they weren't doing anything wrong, there was no law against it and no they wouldn't stop, it was their right...

That kind of obnoxiousness...where you push the issue with rudeness and without education or information is also unwarranted..passion for the issue has to be tempered with information and education....indoor spaces are the property of the owners and they do reserve the right....
 

Drozd

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WOW we need to stop eating...ALL foods!!! THEY MAY POSE A TOXIC RISK! :laugh:

lol...yup... the cotine that they use as a marker for nicotine exposure which is the only and unreliable measurement can also be gotten by eating a serving of potatos....and those places that are now conducting preemployment drug testing and including smoking as a basis for hiring....yup they're measuring cotine...

nice to know that eating potatos or eggplant could cost you a job ain't it?
 

DaveP

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It's going to be a long road to acceptance for vapers. I stealth vape in restaurants and large retail stores and have never had anyone even question what I was doing. I blow the vapor down and only vape infrequently, so most people don't even notice it. Were I to light an analog and take two puffs in Walmart, the tobacco police would be on me in minutes from the smell of smoke!

Yesterday, I vaped several times in Chili's before and after the meal. My Ego stays in my hand except for the tip of the cart showing. I hold it in a little longer and hardly any vapor comes out when I exhale.

Most people don't understand electronic cigarettes. The fact that they are called cigarettes immediately brings to mind the problems associated with analogs. The media has not felt the need to educate the public, so all they know is hearsay. I meet a lot of people who have heard of Ecigs, but don't really understand them. Most are quick to accept the concept when explained by someone knowledgeable and they agree that there's no harm once they are told that PG is a food additive and that it is used to create stage fog. After all, everyone has inhaled it at a concert if they sat within 20 rows of the stage. My band had a fog machine for a while and I always wondered if it was bad for your lungs. Now I know better.

My fear is that public education will not increase fast enough to prevent stupid lawmakers from banning Ecigs. Once they are banned in enough places there won't be a viable income from selling them and they will wither away. We won't be able to buy them or the juice and eventually our supplies will be used up and not replaceable.

You might say that you can make your own juice, but the real issue is batteries and atomizers. Unless you can make them you too will eventually be out of the ecig business.

So, we need to be discreet where we vape and try to educate all your friends. If you tell 2 friends and they both tell two friends and the progression continues, the word will spread. 2 to the 10th power is 1024. Tell a friend!
 
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