Nicotine not addictive? Yeah right!

[AndriaD]

I was doing some googling about this last night. Seems there have been a few "tries" with children and actually the initial results were positive. They one study did a nicotine patch (5mg/16 hrs) but they pulled the plug on the study because some kids had side effects (nausea, itching under patch on their skin, dizziness) so I am guessing it was too high a dose perhaps for them? I'll have to keep looking to see if there are more studies and whatnot. By the looks of it they want to, just need to learn to control the dose and still be effective.

I got that awful itching from the patch; I think it has more to do with the adhesive, than the nicotine; my mom got the same thing from hormone patches. And that "capsaicin" muscle-rub stuff? It's made with capsicum, red pepper -- it might as well be itching powder, to my skin.

Andria

 

[beckdg]

I agree on both counts. (This post and previous one, although no experience with the corn part). My sister actually was trying to lose a few pounds (not a lot), and cut out bread, pasta, potato, and rice from her diet (no exercise, or other things cut out). She lost 15 lbs in a few weeks time. She now eats these things sparingly, and has maintained her weight. (My Dr. has said an all protein/high protein diet over a long time could be unhealthy as well, such like the Atkins diet).

Also, my husband is from Europe, and I can remember when we first got married, he commented several times how everything, even the breads in the US are so sweet and had lots of sugar in it. I remember thinking, sugar in bread? Sure enough, there is sugar in bread.

Absolutely.

My daughter (still young and just out of the baby fat stage) was built like Pugsley Addams this time last year. She LOVES pasta and cereal. To this day we still call her the noodle monster. I swear she's the only true pastafarian.

We all but removed pasta and cereal from her diet about a year ago. Only cereal she normally gets is when she gets breakfast at school. (Don't get me going about the garbage our school system shovels into our kids' feed holes.) She's maintained roughly the same weight and grew a few inches. She's 7 yrs old, so she's right on track now. Still a bit on the heavy side. Just not where I have to worry so much about her health because of it.

Cereal is another one. It's nearly impossible to find cereal that's not inundated with wheat, sugar and salt. I mean... who thinks to mix sugar and salt when they cook?

I don't like the Atkins diet either. I personally think it's garbage. But due to the low carb nature... especially in the beginning, it's certainly a successful to drop pounds fast.

Didn't mention rice and pasta earlier because they're not prevalent typically at truck stops. Not exactly necessary to cut them out when they're already mostly not present. But you are absolutely correct there, too.

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[beckdg]

I got that awful itching from the patch; I think it has more to do with the adhesive, than the nicotine; my mom got the same thing from hormone patches. And that "capsaicin" muscle-rub stuff? It's made with capsicum, red pepper -- it might as well be itching powder, to my skin.

Andria

I too had the patch itch. So bad it left red, welted skin where the patch had been. I had to rotate locations every time I applied one.

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[AndriaD]

Absolutely.

My daughter (still young and just out of the baby fat stage) was built like Pugsley Addams this time last year. She LOVES pasta and cereal. To this day we still call her the noodle monster. I swear she's the only true pastafarian.

We all but removed pasta and cereal from her diet about a year ago. Only cereal she normally gets is when she gets breakfast at school. (Don't get me going about the garbage our school system shovels into our kids' feed holes.) She's maintained roughly the same weight and grew a few inches. She's 7 yrs old, so she's right on track now. Still a bit on the heavy side. Just not where I have to worry so much about her health because of it.

Cereal is another one. It's nearly impossible to find cereal that's not inundated with wheat, sugar and salt. I mean... who thinks to mix sugar and salt when they cook?

I don't like the Atkins diet either. I personally think it's garbage. But due to the low carb nature... especially in the beginning, it's certainly a successful to drop pounds fast.

Didn't mention rice and pasta earlier because they're not prevalent typically at truck stops. Not exactly necessary to cut them out when they're already mostly not present. But you are absolutely correct there, too.

Sent from my device.

But kids' bodies change so much, as they grow. My son used to greatly resemble a stork or whooping crane -- all legs, which looked like toothpicks, even though he had plenty of meat on his bones, he just had my slim elongated build. But now as a full-grown man he's not built like that at all, he's quite solid, I'd say "medium build," and not even terribly tall -- about 5'11".

Andria

 

[beckdg]

But kids' bodies change so much, as they grow. My son used to greatly resemble a stork or whooping crane -- all legs, which looked like toothpicks, even though he had plenty of meat on his bones, he just had my slim elongated build. But now as a full-grown man he's not built like that at all, he's quite solid, I'd say "medium build," and not even terribly tall -- about 5'11".

Andria

But roughly the same weight for a year? For a 6 - 7 yr old? That wasn't going to happen on her former diet no matter what changes she went through. Substitute pasta and cereal with fruit and what little veggies we can convince her to eat and there's an obvious difference.

Sent from my device.

 

[LeftHandBlack]

I would say it's sometimes a fine line. Have you ever braved a storm because you ran out of smokes? Went through the house and car digging up change? Check the ash trays for a long ....?

Oh yeah Ive been there for sure!

 

[beckdg]

When I want some milk to drink I go outside and squirt some in my mouth from the cow in my backyard.

When I want some water, I drink a glass from the ocean or the pond in my backyard.

When I want some meat I kill the cow in my backyard and start chewing.

when i want some milk to drink i rely on big agri/farm/fda to kill all the beneficial bacteria, skim off all the beneficial enzymes and add sugar making what's already not completely digestable for humans even worse on their systems.

when i want some water and i live in new york city, i have the local plant siphon off the drains of 1/3 of the cities waste, put it into a huge vat, add critters to it to "eat" the waste, attempt to siphon off and filter out the critters, add chlorine to the water to kill what's left, add ammonia to the chlorine so chlorine makes it completely to my faucet unfettered and add phosphates and unknown chemicals to further stabilize the chlorine and ph so the ancient lead, iron and copper pipes inundated throughout the city don't corrode directly into my faucet.

when i want some meat, i have a farmer in texas crowd them into a 60 acre plot nose to tail and toss their feed into their own waste. then i have that farmer add antibiotics into their feed and commonly inject the entire herd with hormones and antibiotics to keep them alive in otherwise certain death conditions. then i have another guy peel the skin and pop the puss bubbles, grind it back up and feed it to them with their grains. and my butcher is a factory that no human would want to see inside of before they eat.

methinks it sounds ridiculous either way. except one way doesn't need forcing.

 

[fogging_katrider]

If someone is in need of losing 50+ lbs, I'd think there are probably a lot of worse culprits than grains. Like sugar... or just eating too damn much of everything!!!

Yes I agree obese people eat wayyyyy too much. But I see you're not really learning the real facts about sugar. Sugar is people food that is needed to support life on a cellular level. Humans can metabolize it with little or no trouble as there are zero toxins in it. Yeah if people overdo sugar there can be problems, but the wheat in the human diet and the wheat addiction is the hunger opiate like brain receptor trigger which amplifies that uncontrolled appetite in the overeaters. Sugar does not equal obesity on its own...your body needs sugar..and the proper mineral balance to metabolize it. Beside that, whole wheat bread is a higher glycemic index than sucrose, white bread or snickers candy bars. If I had my choice between only sucrose, whole wheat bread or a snickers bar for breakfast at 8 am...I'd take the snickers bar and not end up hungry again by ten am like I would have been by eating that whole wheat bread.

Thought You Understood Sugar? You Will After This! (8 minutes)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4VrzJTSG6E

Well good god, if I lost 80 lbs, I'd be dead. I weigh 137 lbs! Never had a problem with any grains, and don't expect to start, at this advanced age. Well, let me amend that: bread MOLD causes me all kinds of problems -- penicillin allergy, but even moldy bread in the fridge gives me the itch, just like penicillin. Moldy cheese on the other hand causes me no issues.

I think you're missing the entire point behind avoiding wheat and grains. Its not so much about weight loss as it is mainly about the serious diseases and autoimmunity associated with humans trying to digest grains. People were never meant to consume grains.
Grains should be eaten by the food we humans eat...tasty tasty steak, chicken, pork, bacon etc in moderation we need some fat in our diets, we do not need inflammation in our bodies or brains.

First of all, you do NOT have to be fat or obese. You do NOT have to have celiac disease, or even be in the non celiac gluten sensitive category to suffer any one of hundreds of diseases the toxins in wheat can exacerbate or cause. Just the autoimmunity issue alone should be cause enough for concern for you based on all the various inflammation connected ailments you've mentioned having in your family genetic history and yourself. If I recall them all correctly, forgive me if i got some wrong, you mentioned headaches, add or adhd, depression, chrones, gallstones, IBS and especially taking into consideration that leaky gut sepsis surgical removal of a portion of your intestine you had mentioned... I'd be wondering out loud by now with all the data i've presented rather than still thinking I'd never had any problem with any grains. The easiest way to discover what avoiding grains can do is to simply try it and see how much better you may feel after a few weeks...like the doctor says in the short video link below entitled "what you dont know may kill you". He also mentions how it often goes undiagnosed even in people who have had a negative biopsy already !!!!! <- x 5

Gluten: What You Dont Know Might Kill You (7 minutes)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLJSmJ0bMlk

And EVERYONE...all humans eating grains... not just celiac and non celiac gluten sensitive individuals can suffer autoimmunity from leaky gut syndrome (septic intestine included) due to the toxicity of some grains and the way they pass through our g.i. tract.

Gluten and Autoimmunity Explained in 20 Minutes (not boring this guy is even somewhat entertaining and energetic)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvUgcLQOUSA

This last link is awesome imho...especially the last half from 7 minutes to the end
Everyone Should Stop Eating These Four Foods! (11 minutes)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5gXRFfMS3g

 

[bluecat]

when i want some milk to drink i rely on big agri/farm/fda to kill all the beneficial bacteria, skim off all the beneficial enzymes and add sugar making what's already not completely digestable for humans even worse on their systems.

when i want some water and i live in new york city, i have the local plant siphon off the drains of 1/3 of the cities waste, put it into a huge vat, add critters to it to "eat" the waste, attempt to siphon off and filter out the critters, add chlorine to the water to kill what's left, add ammonia to the chlorine so chlorine makes it completely to my faucet unfettered and add phosphates and unknown chemicals to further stabilize the chlorine and ph so the ancient lead, iron and copper pipes inundated throughout the city don't corrode directly into my faucet.

when i want some meat, i have a farmer in texas crowd them into a 60 acre plot nose to tail and toss their feed into their own waste. then i have that farmer add antibiotics into their feed and commonly inject the entire herd with hormones and antibiotics to keep them alive in otherwise certain death conditions. then i have another guy peel the skin and pop the puss bubbles, grind it back up and feed it to them with their grains. and my butcher is a factory that no human would want to see inside of before they eat.

methinks it sounds ridiculous either way. except one way doesn't need forcing.

Agreed I think it is a little ridiculous both ways. So what do we do? There is not a right or wrong answer but a choice. Btw I do believe too many hormones and other things are being put into our food. I believe there is too much of it. I am down in Louisville this weekend. Just at at the hotels buffet for breakfast. When the closed up everything left over was just thrown in the garbage. When they tossed the apples bananas and other fruit I felt strange. What a waste. I had grabbed 3 apples prior to them tossing it. Everything was tossed.

I won't even go into the schools giving free lunches and breakfasts to the kids which are supposedly healthy. The largest percentage of kids do not eat it and what happens to the rest? Yup.. trashed.

 

[beckdg]

Agreed I think it is a little ridiculous both ways. So what do we do? There is not a right or wrong answer but a choice. Btw I do believe too many hormones and other things are being put into our food. I believe there is too much of it. I am down in Louisville this weekend. Just at at the hotels buffet for breakfast. When the closed up everything left over was just thrown in the garbage. When they tossed the apples bananas and other fruit I felt strange. What a waste. I had grabbed 3 apples prior to them tossing it. Everything was tossed.

I won't even go into the schools giving free lunches and breakfasts to the kids which are supposedly healthy. The largest percentage of kids do not eat it and what happens to the rest? Yup.. trashed.

i think there is a right answer. educate and make the right choices. if nobody's constantly buying garbage food, most of the "food" industry will fall flat and cease to exist. then we'll be forced to bring back real agriculture and natural foods. people will get increasingly healthier.

but unfortunately, our society has turned a blind eye and accepted being spoon fed nutrition information from the very same sources that are poisoning us. most by accepting what's on the label to make their nutrition choices.

me?

my water is filtered extensively right at the faucet. in the house i'm in currently, i have a 5 stage reverse osmosis system with a 6th stage for remineralizing. in our last residence, i had a 7 stage system. 3 stages just for removing chloramine.

we buy organic produce and free range meat whenever possible. we're not perfect and what's most available doesn't fit the bill, but we do when we have the time and resources.

we avoid wheat and most grains more often than not.

we make our own juice, almond milk, etc.

we substitute with healthy alternatives whenever possible when making treats like cakes, pies, etc.

we use sugar in the raw, stevia and organic, raw honey for sweeteners whenever possible.

we keep a quart of juice from bolthouse farms in the fridge for those times we don't have time to make fresh juice.

we have a food dehydrator, a centrifugal juicer, a citrus press and a masticating juicer.

our dogs water bowl is even connected to our water filtration system and has a float valve installed. the bowl stays full and fresh and the reservoir is always full when we need it. the line extends to the ice maker/water in the door of our fridge as well.

we use a lot of organic, fresh herbs for cooking. i have a few growing in the little bit of space in one of the bedroom windows year round.

we also substitute extra virgin olive oil and coconut oil when possible.

this is just a short list. but it's a fantastic start for anyone looking to make a healthy change in their life.

 

[xcrazydx]

Well good god, if I lost 80 lbs, I'd be dead. I weigh 137 lbs! Never had a problem with any grains, and don't expect to start, at this advanced age. Well, let me amend that: bread MOLD causes me all kinds of problems -- penicillin allergy, but even moldy bread in the fridge gives me the itch, just like penicillin. Moldy cheese on the other hand causes me no issues.

If someone is in need of losing 50+ lbs, I'd think there are probably a lot of worse culprits than grains. Like sugar... or just eating too damn much of everything!!!

Andria

You and most of the others in here don't have any knowledge on this matter. You should pay attention to what fogging_katrider posts and you'll be much healthier.

 

[Jman8]

You and most of the others in here don't have any knowledge on this matter. You should pay attention to what fogging_katrider posts and you'll be much healthier.

As if health occurs outside of the mind. smh

 

[Foggyroomz]

It amazes me how many different subjects pop up in here and take over a thread with little to no relevance to the original topic. LOL! I only can say this American's have an issue with everything needing to be in great excess. Whether it is the foods we eat, the clothing we wear, the cars we drive, the beverages and so on that we drink, everything is in excess never moderation. We are the least healthy nation in the world, and we waste more food and resources than other country around. America has the highest number of obese, diabetic, high cholesterol and heart unhealthy people of any nation and these numbers increase at an absurd rate. Why do other countries and their cultures have a better longevity of life it is because they aren't shoveling all the junk into their bodies and they aren't all moving at a pace only equaled by the speed of sound. We have to go,go,go and never slow down and take anything of quality in and we never really take a deep breathe sit back and reflect on the day because the day really has no end. We survive off McDonald's, convenience store fountain drinks, and sugar riddled carbonated energy drinks. How many American families do you think truly sit down together daily for a meal that is wholesome home cooked and take the time to eat, digest, converse, and enjoy an hour or so as a family unit? Well when did you catch the last rerun episode of "Leave it to Beaver" because that doesn't happen in today's society. We have destroyed our society and culture rich heritage and exchanged it for fast, easy, impersonal, and excessive. Heck you want to talk to your teenager these days it is got to be on face chat or via text message because they don't have the time to be home for dinner, they too are busy chasing the excess train. If they do gather around the table there are smartphones and tablets with thumbs going 100mph on the keypads while they swill their food down and are then up and out the door. Heck American companies don't value people having the weekends off to spend with family, there isn't time for church because nothing shuts down on a Saturday or Sunday anymore, heck a normal work week consists of 60 hours anymore for those fortunate enough to have manufacturing jobs and 28 to 30 hours for those unfortunate to have a job working in fast-food or for Wal-Mart so either we work 5 or 6 12 hour shifts in one place or have to work 8 hour shifts 6 to 7 days a week at 2 or more locations to make enough money to feed our biggest, baddest, loudest vehicle and pay the outrageous rent and utility costs for a dwelling and whatever is left over goes to the nitrate, high carb, super sodium filled, low protein diets we can afford because let's face it if it is good for you it is too expensive for the average Joe to afford but if it is health destroying, diabetic inspiring, high cholesterol causing, heart-attack in a wrapper it is affordable to all and in excess welcome to the American Dream "Death by Extremes" where access to excess is guaranteed.

 

[tchavei]

I think the way you typed your text doesn't reflect what you advocate... a few paragraphs would have made the reading more enjoyable and less 'hectic' unless you were trying to mimic the way you describe american society lives?

Regards
Tony

 

[chargingcharlie]

*snip*We are the least healthy nation in the world*snip*

Incorrect. We are actually in the top 20% in the list of healthiest countries reported by the WHO. We are in 34th place out of 193 countries. We aren't the healthiest, but we are not even close to being the least healthy.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

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[rhean]

Incorrect. We are actually in the top 20% in the list of healthiest countries reported by the WHO. We are in 34th place out of 193 countries. We aren't the healthiest, but we are not even close to being the least healthy.

List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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The US is perfectly healthy, when compared to all nations in the world. When compared to developed nations, it's almost last in the CIA and UN life expectancy lists. In the WHO index, the US is, again, toward the end, but at least it has Finland and Denmark as companions.

Having said that: I can't believe there's a debate on whether or not nicotine is addictive. It's VERY addictive. I diy my own juice, was late picking up my mother from the airport, and in a hurry forgot to put nicotine in my juice. Went through two days of hellish nicotine withdrawal before I figured out the problem. Put the nicotine in the juice, and everything relaxed. btw "addictive" does not mean evil lol.

 

[cllmda]

Hi Guys

It often comes up in replies to posts that nicotine is not addictive, or that there are studies that suggest that it isn't. I find that rather strange, to me it has DENIAL written all over it. I know there are substances other than nicotine that may also be addictive which explains why it is so difficult to quit smoking. However, I am still convinced nicotine is the main culprit. If nicotine is not addictive surely it must be possible to stop vaping cold turkey? How many of you would be able to do that? I know I couldn't. I know smoking addiction is a complex thing but I can't imagine having to go without my nic. Quitting vaping is definitely not on my radar at the moment, and probably not ever.

How do you feel about this?

Cheers.

Chris

My 2 cts :

I could never quit vaping from one day to the next-I dont WANT to !
It has nothing to do with Nicotine or Nicotine addiction though = Ive been at ZERO Nic for almost a year now....

As a relatively heavy smoker (30 red Marlbs a day) i started off at 24mg nic, then quickly went down to 18,16,12,8, 5/6,3 and now...zero .I just dropped the nic without even TRYING,never felt any side effects or any difference at all,my tolerance just gradually dropped on its own without any effort on my part.So Nic hasnt been a part of my life for a while now but i sure couldnt drop my ecigs ....

 

[bluecat]

Not gonna quote all that.

Considering the US is a great melting pot of every nationality and ethnicity that could be imagined on the planet it doesn't surprise me that we are neither in the top or the bottom. My daughter in high school is friends with 10 people from different nations and different ethnicitys (don't know spelling and too lazy to look up). 3

"Having said that: I can't believe there's a debate on whether or not nicotine is addictive. It's VERY addictive. I diy my own juice, was late picking up my mother from the airport, and in a hurry forgot to put nicotine in my juice. Went through two days of hellish nicotine withdrawal before I figured out the problem. Put the nicotine in the juice, and everything relaxed. btw "addictive" does not mean evil lol. "

Then how do explain those that are weekend smokers? Enjoys a smoke on weekends with a few drinks but does not smoke through out the week. If it was highly addictive how do people quit cold turkey or at all. I can go up to 10 hours + without a vape. It was a 2.5 hour drive to Lousiville this weekend. I usually vape the whole car ride. Surprisingly, it was only about half. I kept thinking this isn't doing anything for me. Am I trying to quit vaping? No... It is just leading itself down that path. I am no longer feeling the need. If it was addicting would that happen?

 

[rhean]

...

Then how do explain those that are weekend smokers? Enjoys a smoke on weekends with a few drinks but does not smoke through out the week. If it was highly addictive how do people quit cold turkey or at all. I can go up to 10 hours + without a vape. It was a 2.5 hour drive to Lousiville this weekend. I usually vape the whole car ride. Surprisingly, it was only about half. I kept thinking this isn't doing anything for me. Am I trying to quit vaping? No... It is just leading itself down that path. I am no longer feeling the need. If it was addicting would that happen?

...it takes time to get addicted. A person who only smokes over the weekend, maybe in social situations, is likely not addicted to nicotine.

Anyone can go cold turkey from any substance; that it can be done doesn't mean the substance is not addictive.

Anyone can, consciously or unconsciously, wean themselves off an addictive substance.

If you feel that you're about to get off nicotine, by all means do so, and kudos to you

EDIT: Bodies react differently to different substances. People vape in different ways.

 

[DC2]

THaving said that: I can't believe there's a debate on whether or not nicotine is addictive. It's VERY addictive. I diy my own juice, was late picking up my mother from the airport, and in a hurry forgot to put nicotine in my juice. Went through two days of hellish nicotine withdrawal before I figured out the problem. Put the nicotine in the juice, and everything relaxed.

There is a debate because plenty of people have done the same thing you did, but with opposite outcomes.
And also because there is more and more research showing that it is not really all that addictive.

The best policy is to assume it affects everyone differently...
Just like many other things in life.