Nicotine not addictive? Yeah right!

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WTracyS

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I'll add this to the mix, since I have been trying to find out since this post was made and have been unable to see any science on it. tobacco was hand picked for many years. I have been unable to find any reports suggesting these pickers ever became addicted to nicotine. There are many reports on poisoning but nothing on addiction. Would it not stand to reason that there would be many report of the pickers becoming addicted?

If any has such a link(s), it would be appreciative.

I don't know about addiction, but I know poisonings happened. Holding tobacco leaves against the skin for a prolonged period allows the nicotine to seep into the body, and can be toxic. Nicotine is readily absorbed by body tissues. That's why inhaling it works. And dipping works. Otherwise, we'd be eating the stuff.
 
I forgot mine a couple times leaving for work in the morning with no plans on getting back till dark. (To far to go back) First time I freaked and bought a Foos stick (What I started off with) at a gas station but hardly hit it. Gave it to a friend later that night. Last time (vaping 18-24) I rode it out till I got home hours later. I hot boxed the heck out of my toy like it was a new lover when I got home but really couldn't find a reason to rip off anyones head that day.
 
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Redhotchewy

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Well I've known people who are addicted to gum I don't know anyone addicted to patches but I'd throw this in the mix. Oral fixation plays a big roll in our lives on this one. Just try and take a pacifier away from a baby and you will understand that principle. E-Cigs are a habit just like cigarettes. You buy them, play with them, tinker and toy with them and in the end spend large amounts of time sticking them in your mouth and vaping them. It is a huge fixation for the user. Not to mention the flavors and the obsession that can evolve there.....just look at this forum. As far as nicotine is concerned I would venture to say it is as addictive as coffee but not as addictive as opium. For instance if you drink coffee every day and you stop you won't die. You will probably be very cranky but you will not become ill (unless you have a serious psychological addiction as well) where as with opium you can actually become very ill by stopping the usage. So that's kind of where I view the situation. As far as studies are concerned well............take that with a grain of salt.
 

tchavei

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Well I get pretty anxious in the morning until I stick that drip tip in my mouth and hit the power and I get pretty cranky if I find out the battery has died. I also get cranky with the time it takes to get some satisfaction in the morning using e-cigs... its always at least 10-15 minutes. After that I can be off for some hours but the mornings are worst.
 

skoony

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I agree with the small exception: we should talk not only about whether nicotine is harmful, but whether the way we obtain nicotine is harmful. Cigarettes are harmful. What about vaping? We do not know yet. (Somehow I do not believe putting 20 ml of PG/VG/flavorings in lungs daily is harmless) It looks like nicotine addiction is multiplied by delivery system (low for patches, high for cigarettes, unknown for vaping) and most of the possible harm comes from delivery system (low for patches, high for cigarettes, unknown for vaping).

the FDA has no qualms about PG/VG its used in there approved products.
there is some concern with some of the flavorings i believe these concerns
are manageable and will be worked out.
regards
mike
 

Redruth

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Well I get pretty anxious in the morning until I stick that drip tip in my mouth and hit the power and I get pretty cranky if I find out the battery has died. I also get cranky with the time it takes to get some satisfaction in the morning using e-cigs... its always at least 10-15 minutes. After that I can be off for some hours but the mornings are worst.

I'm the opposite. When I was a smoker as soon as my eyes opened I would reach for my glasses and then my cigarettes. And would smoke one whilst waiting for the kettle to boil for my morning cuppa.

Now that I vape I don't start vaping as soon as my eyes are open. I often potter around doing other stuff while I wait for the kettle to boil, and don't vape for up to an hour after getting up. When I do start vaping I tend to chain vape though unless I'm busy on here and 'forget'.

There's another point - I never 'forgot' to stop for a cigarette. When I was smoking I could not go more than 25-30 mins without a cigarette. But I can easily go over an hour without a vape if my attention is on something else.
 

Jman8

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I agree with the small exception: we should talk not only about whether nicotine is harmful, but whether the way we obtain nicotine is harmful. Cigarettes are harmful.

This last assertion is disputable. If by saying there is some degree of harm (like there is when someone drinks too much water), then let that be the criteria for 'harmful' but let it also be consistent, as in "water is harmful." But to stipulate on the assertion of "water is harmful" would lead reasonable people to stipulate on an assertion claiming "cigarettes are harmful."

What about vaping? We do not know yet. (Somehow I do not believe putting 20 ml of PG/VG/flavorings in lungs daily is harmless) It looks like nicotine addiction is multiplied by delivery system (low for patches, high for cigarettes, unknown for vaping) and most of the possible harm comes from delivery system (low for patches, high for cigarettes, unknown for vaping).

I don't think I do 20 ml in a week, so do some math to figure out how much I do daily. Or put another way, I somehow do not believe putting 1 ml of PG/VG/flavorings in lungs is harmful.

There are literally zero substances on the planet that are harmless. That ought to not be a standard in an otherwise reasonable discussion on the degree of harms one might experience, or has experienced, from use of nicotine.
 

Jman8

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I'm the opposite. When I was a smoker as soon as my eyes opened I would reach for my glasses and then my cigarettes. And would smoke one whilst waiting for the kettle to boil for my morning cuppa.

Now that I vape I don't start vaping as soon as my eyes are open. I often potter around doing other stuff while I wait for the kettle to boil, and don't vape for up to an hour after getting up. When I do start vaping I tend to chain vape though unless I'm busy on here and 'forget'.

There's another point - I never 'forgot' to stop for a cigarette. When I was smoking I could not go more than 25-30 mins without a cigarette. But I can easily go over an hour without a vape if my attention is on something else.

I currently identify as a smoker, and because we don't allow much stipulation on degree of smoking, I'm lumped in with all the other heavily addicted people like I was about a decade ago, or like most ex-smoking vapers claim to be, as your post represents.

But I had one cigarette yesterday. Zero the day before. 2 the day before that. My current pack is around half full, and was purchased around 2 weeks ago. Therefore, all the previous understandings of how heavily addictive smoking cigarettes are not true in my case, and I am one who has been heavy user, while also one who has gone cold turkey from smoking (for over a decade).

We toss around memes about smoking as if it is settled 'science' and not disputed. I find all of it, especially in last couple years, highly disputable. I recall finding some of it disputable when I went cold turkey and didn't develop an incessant hatred or regret for my past heavy use/abuse as a smoker. But now as a proud moderate smoker who feels well aware of the data around smoking, plus has experience on pretty much all types of uses as a smoker (non, ex, heavy, moderate), I find the so called 'knowledge' to be incredibly biased, based predominantly on emotional hype and very very easy to challenge through actual reasoning and actual science.
 

bluecat

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This last assertion is disputable. If by saying there is some degree of harm (like there is when someone drinks too much water), then let that be the criteria for 'harmful' but let it also be consistent, as in "water is harmful." But to stipulate on the assertion of "water is harmful" would lead reasonable people to stipulate on an assertion claiming "cigarettes are harmful."



I don't think I do 20 ml in a week, so do some math to figure out how much I do daily. Or put another way, I somehow do not believe putting 1 ml of PG/VG/flavorings in lungs is harmful.

There are literally zero substances on the planet that are harmless. That ought to not be a standard in an otherwise reasonable discussion on the degree of harms one might experience, or has experienced, from use of nicotine.

Agreed.

Better yet, if I smoke 52 cigarettes a year will my health be different than if I did not smoke any cigarettes. Insert whatever # of cigarettes in to that equation.

Same with liquids, caffiene or alcohol.
 

Jman8

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Agreed.

Better yet, if I smoke 52 cigarettes a year will my health be different than if I did not smoke any cigarettes. Insert whatever # of cigarettes in to that equation.

Same with liquids, caffiene or alcohol.

...or even... water, bread, butter, vegetables, meat, eggs... need I go on?
 

Altaire Versailles

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Vaping nicotine is not addictive to me. I know because I did the test on myself. No nic for six months then vaped 12 mg for a month then back to zero nic. I was not addicted. These days I vape a tank of 2 mg nic every couple of weeks. I like the effect and TH.

I had been however strongly addicted to cigarettes for 37 years. Do you think there is only nicotine in cigarettes that people can become addicted to?

All the addiction data I have seen about nicotine addiction was done using cigarettes. The data is correct, they are addictive ;)


ETA: Very addictive.
ETA2: To most people.

But there are people who smoke regularly and quit, is your personal testimony evidence that its not addictive? I mean you could be right, but if I quit vaping I would have to work at not vaping. I dont know if thats a physiological or just a behavioral addiction but I would want to keep doing it. Not NEED, but I would feel compelled to continue after a while. Addiction is defined as:

compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as ......, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal;

Nicotine withdrawal definitely doesnt leave you throwing up and having the shakes or anything but there is a withdrawal effect, maybe not for you, but I would guess with most people. Were not wasting our money on all this crap for nothing. I dont know what definition you could find where the term addiction isnt applicable to what happens when we dont get our nic fix.
 

DC2

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Smh so you seriously deny that nicotine is addictive? On a site full of people who needed vaping to stop smoking and cant quit vaping? I mean what do you propose is it about nicotine containing products that keeps us buying more and more of them then?
If you believe nicotine by itself is so addictive, perhaps you could explain why patches and gum don't work.

That question seems to have no valid answer other than the "habit" and "rituals" are extremely important in the "addiction" equation.
Or that various other things found in tobacco lend themselves to increased addiction potential.

Or maybe it's both.
Yeah, probably.

Actually I think there have been a couple of clinical studies that looked at pharmaceutical nicotine use for helping people with issues like ADD or Alzheimers. Don't remember if it was pills or liquid. If I find the link I'll post it. The problem is I have never seen the data, the article(s) just talked about that research. The data was said to show no addiction after the trials were over.
Here is a post I made with some links to back up your assertions above...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...le-health-benefits-nicotine.html#post14462288


I don't know if nicotine is addictive in all people, some people, or no people.
I do know that we are not all alike though.

And I do know that a blanket statement that nicotine is addictive is wrong.
And the idea that it is as addictive as "you know what" is even more wrong and is just more of the same crap we have been fed for decades.
 

englishmick

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Addiction is defined as:

compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as ......, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal;

I'm sure there are other more detailed definitions around. For cigarettes it doesn't seem like there is really a tolerance effect there. In my experience most people reach their smoking level quite fast and stay there forever. For me it was one pack a day, give or take a few. If I dropped down from that I got edgy, if I smoked significantly more I felt sick. So I have to say that tolerance isn't an essential indicator of addictiveness. With some substances tolerance is definitely present. I've heard it said that some things are psychologically addictive but not physically addictive. Is sugar addictive.

There's been a lot of discussion here recently about the nature of addiction. Maybe we wouldn't disagree so much if we talked in terms of types of addiction rather than NOT or IS TOO.
 

beckdg

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In reality any trial trying to test possibility of creating addiction (on healthy not addicted population) is highly unethical

not if the end goal is to cure the addiction in the first place and the testees are volunteers. especially not if all the testees have legitimate reasoning for being in the study such as motivation towards the end goal via death of a loved one to cancer believed to stem from tobacco use.

surely there are enough of the likes to sustain several studies.

I'll add this to the mix, since I have been trying to find out since this post was made and have been unable to see any science on it. Tobacco was hand picked for many years. I have been unable to find any reports suggesting these pickers ever became addicted to nicotine. There are many reports on poisoning but nothing on addiction. Would it not stand to reason that there would be many report of the pickers becoming addicted?

If any has such a link(s), it would be appreciative.

devils advocate; what was the percentage of those pickers who sustained that activity as a life long career? if the number is unusually substantial, it could be said that there was some addiction potential there. and likely it wouldn't be reported as addiction as it would seem to just be a chosen career path.

Nicotine withdrawal definitely doesnt leave you throwing up and having the shakes or anything but there is a withdrawal effect

funny you should put it that way. i did experience the shakes when withdrawaling from cigarettes. i merely want a vape when i haven't had some in an hour or two. i may get cranky, too. you'd have to ask someone who puts up with it. i don't see it for the most part.
 

DC2

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